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Old April 19, 2013, 05:01 AM   #1
rajbcpa
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Boston area: Do you now live in a police state?

Apparently, the police have a lock down order on citizens of the Boston area.

They have been ordered by the police to not go out of their homes. Do not answer your doors, do not go to work. For businesses - do not to open. All mass transit has been shut down. Any cars are being searched without search warrants.

Police are searching homes without search warrants.

Do the police have the legal authority to do this?

This is why we have a 2nd and 4th Amendments.

Last edited by rajbcpa; April 19, 2013 at 05:16 AM.
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Old April 19, 2013, 05:54 AM   #2
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I guess you missed the news. The police are in a running gun (& bomb) battle with the Boston Marathon Bombing suspects in the Watertown area of Boston. One suspect is dead...and the other is on the run.
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Old April 19, 2013, 06:35 AM   #3
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I want the police to get the bombers as much as anyone but they are not going ignore my rights as a citizen of the USA.

These searches are NOT lawful; right?
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Old April 19, 2013, 06:50 AM   #4
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Search warrants are not required in cases of emergency or hot pursuit. Since the remaining suspect is reportedly heavily armed, possibly with high explosives, a case could certainly be made for both.
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Old April 19, 2013, 07:06 AM   #5
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they shut down mass transit etc to try and keep this terrorist contained and from causing mass casualties somewhere like trains or buses before they catch him. They want people off the streets and to stay indoors and locked to decrease the liklihood he takes hostages etc. and kills again. He and his brother carjacked a guy last night so that is the reason for checking any cars trying to travel in the area.As for searching homes, I haven't seen that report but they may very well have searched some in the immediate vicinity of where the second terrorist was last seen to make sure he wasn't hiding inside with hostages. If they had a good reason to think he was in a home, yes they could enter w/o a warrant. Most likely they are going to homes and knocking and asking if they residents are okay, seen any one suspicious people, etc and asking to check inside. It is a emergency situation covered under exigent circumstances for public safety. If they didn't do any of these things and this terrorist blows up a train or bus killing other innocents then some people will be screaming about why didn't they take these actions and precautions.

Last edited by TLeo; April 19, 2013 at 07:19 AM.
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Old April 19, 2013, 07:17 AM   #6
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Search warrants are not required in cases of emergency or hot pursuit. Since the remaining suspect is reportedly heavily armed, possibly with high explosives, a case could certainly be made for both.

hot pursuit is not searching miles and or blocks from where a person was thought to been seen.
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Old April 19, 2013, 07:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
Police are searching homes without search warrants.
I haven't seen any sources for this.

Given the fact that these men are suspected of the bombing of the Boston marathon, the armed robbery of a 7-11, the shooting of an MIT security officer, and armed confrontation with police (with explosives), I can understand law enforcement not taking any chances. These guys represent a clear and present danger to anyone who encounters them, so the order to stay indoors would be prudent.
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Old April 19, 2013, 07:46 AM   #8
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I certainly would call the situation a dire emergency!

If they do not catch the guy soon, but suspect he has not left the area, will they declare Martial Law?
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Old April 19, 2013, 07:47 AM   #9
Dave P
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"These guys represent a clear and present danger to anyone who encounters them, so the order to stay indoors would be prudent. "

Agree, but again were is the legal cornerstone that the cops can stand on?

"Apparently, the police have a lock down order on citizens of the Boston area.

They have been ordered by the police to not go out of their homes. Do not answer your doors, do not go to work. For businesses - do not to open. All mass transit has been shut down. Any cars are being searched "

"Do the police have the legal authority to do this?

This is why we have a 2nd and 4th Amendments.

Has martial law been declared?
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Old April 19, 2013, 07:48 AM   #10
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Do You Think

if you lived in Boston right now, you wish you could have exercised your 2nd Amendment rights?
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Old April 19, 2013, 07:51 AM   #11
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Has martial law been declared?

I just Wiki'd Martial Law, and I'm not sure this situation would fall under the definition.

Martial law is the imposition of military rule by military authorities over designated regions on an emergency basis
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Old April 19, 2013, 08:22 AM   #12
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If they seen someone that fits the description of the person they are chasing (the bomber) They don't need a warrant because they saw someone that might be him go in there. They also don't know what they are working with 2 people or a group of people so they have to be on high alert.

And for people to stay inside and don't open the doors is for the protection of the people that had nothing to do with it. (no mistakes, no cross fire mistakes, no hostage situation stuff like that.)
Im a big supporter of 2A and 4A. I really think this is for the protection of the innocent.

Last edited by tynman; April 19, 2013 at 08:28 AM.
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Old April 19, 2013, 08:22 AM   #13
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Oh comon... they were shooting at police and tossing bombs out the window.
Getting people off the streets so that they can see and identify all movement in the area, as well as limiting citizen exposure to this kid is simple common sense.

If nothing else, under these circumstances, getting out and being a nuisance or distraction could be considered impeding an investigation.

Rajbcpa, you are over-stating or embellishing whats going on there.
The whole area isnt locked down, just certain blocks, notice all the reporters and folks moving around elsewhere.

Last edited by Dashunde; April 19, 2013 at 08:46 AM.
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Old April 19, 2013, 08:29 AM   #14
carguychris
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From the news coverage I've heard, the lockdown is implied to be voluntary- the authorities are asking people to stay in their homes, not telling them that they will be arrested if they leave.

However, the situation is rapidly evolving, and I'm sure a better assessment will be possible once everything calms down.
Quote:
Has martial law been declared?... I just Wiki'd Martial Law, and I'm not sure this situation would fall under the definition.
I don't think it has been declared; see above.

FWIW local authorities have declared martial law several times in American history, notably after the SF earthquake of 1906, but in most cases, modern scholars consider the legality of these declarations to be suspect or even outright groundless.
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Old April 19, 2013, 08:52 AM   #15
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Quote:
From the news coverage I've heard, the lockdown is implied to be voluntary- the authorities are asking people to stay in their homes, not telling them that they will be arrested if they leave.
Exactly. I've seen footage of some people out and about walking past officers and no one is being arrested. To try and keep folks inside is a precaution to limit the chances of this terrorist harming someone else while on the run.
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Old April 19, 2013, 09:09 AM   #16
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Like many of you here at TFL, I'm a big supporter of the 2A and the 4A. Legally, though, there's a huge gap between:
1) Local authorities requesting that people to remain in their homes (or otherwise "out of the way"); and
2) Turning that request into a directive, a violation of which results in arrest or other criminal liability.
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Old April 19, 2013, 09:20 AM   #17
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First: Hot Pursuit

We'd also have to look at the Massachusetts version of an "Emergency Powers" act- The Governor can call it an emergency, and then a lot of stuff CAN go out the window.

Additionally, through some legal wrangling- most likely as part of the Governor's emergency powers, a curfew could be instituted. While an adult curfew would fall under strict scrutiny- if you check that against the hot pursuit definition above, they've got a fairly hefty club to swing when they tell the judge our compelling government interest was to capture a multiple-homicide suspect who was armed and dangerous with firearms and improvised explosive devices thought to be "cornered" in a discrete area..

And finally, don't forget there is no prohibition against the police lying- barring being under oath.
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Old April 19, 2013, 09:48 AM   #18
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Please remember that the Fourth Amendment protects us against unreasonable search and seizure. Sometimes, under exigent circumstances, action might need to be taken with the understanding that the reasonableness of that action might have to be justified later on.
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Old April 19, 2013, 09:54 AM   #19
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Take it from someone who was in Watertown less than 100 yards from the major shootout. I am in no way upset with the city that it is on lockdown and police and FBI are asking us to stay in our houses. They are not only searching for him, but IED's that they threw out their car on the side of the road. This kid is armed and dangerous, wont hesitate to kill or take hostages, has no regard for human life at all, and is pretty damn elusive. Watertown is 4 square miles, there were road blocks, choppers FBI, dogs, local police, state police, and I am sure CIA, and they somehow have still not found him.

I posted this last night in another thread as it was going on.

Quote:
Huge shootout going on in my hometown as we speak. Hundreds of rounds fired 4 streets over from me about an hour ago, multiple explosions (news reporting grenades or IED's). Literally a warzone, absolutely crazy. One officer killed at MIT campus, a good friend of mine who is an LEO was on the scene and the officer died in his arms. Kind of surreal this is hitting so close to home. News reporting could potentially be Boston Marathon bombing suspects, police scanners are saying they are now looking for the suspect identified in the marathon photos in the white hat. One suspect apprehended, the other still on the loose and officers are doing door to door searches. Sure glad I have enough guns for my whole family.
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Old April 19, 2013, 10:21 AM   #20
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Referencing the people locked in their homes; What are the gun laws in Boston. I've read this:

http://gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/m...setts-gun-laws
"There are a total of 5 licenses one can receive in Massachusetts. An RFID, which is a restricted license only permits the individual to carry mace or pepper spray; an FID, which allows only long rifles, mace, and pepper spray; a Class B license which only permits the purchase of long rifles and hand guns with small chambers (no more than 10 rounds.) Concealment of weapons is not allowed with a Class B license.

Class A licenses allow for an individual to purchase any legal fire arm in the state of Massachusetts with concealment privileges granted. The 5th license, according to Massachusetts law on guns, is only issued for automatic weapons and can only be obtained if a law enforcement position is held.

A license of ownership must be present at the time of application or purchase. Class A and B carrying licenses take 30 days to process and require the individual to be at least 21 years of age. All weapons and firearms licenses require applications, fees, interviews, and fingerprints to be conducted at the jurisdiction's local police department. The integration of law enforcement in the license process makes Massachusetts gun control unique and rigorous."

Someone in Boston, just how difficult is it to get all the necessary items for home protection? Is it more difficult than the above info? I know if I were guarding my family right now, I would feel much better being rifle ready instead of kitchen knife ready.
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Old April 19, 2013, 10:26 AM   #21
Dragline45
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Quote:
Someone in Boston, just how difficult is it to get all the necessary items for home protection? Is it more difficult than the above info? I know if I were guarding my family right now, I would feel much better being rifle ready instead of kitchen knife ready.
I have my Class A concealed carry and large capacity license. I can own large capacity mags if they are pre ban, and currently I have pre ban large capacity mags for a Beretta M9 and Springfield M1A.

It depends on the town you live in. I took a firearms saftey course, went to the police station and filled out and submitted the paperwork as well as a $100 check, got finger printed and talked to a detective briefly, waited for my background check with the FBI to clear and I got my license.
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Old April 19, 2013, 11:17 AM   #22
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I just wonder how these two were not being watched. They had apparently made a lot of youtube videos calling for violent jihad.
I havealso been hearing that the Saudi that was initially questioned is very quietly being deported as a danger to the US and is indeed involved in this. Apparently half dozen or so Congressional people have seen the document and confirmed it. I heard this at first on Tuesday, I think, from Hannity who reported his official sources had confirmed it and now another ...Beck, says his sources say the same thing.
This does make some sense. Saudi terror groups do have links to Chechnyan terror groups. Remember the Soviet school massacre a few years ago? Those Islamic Chechnyans were supported by Saudis. We all know the sympathetic leanings of our fearless leader and how we bend over for the Saudi government so I don't think it far fetched at all.
If we had a decent media doing it's job they would grab this and embarrasas the hell out of this regime.
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Old April 19, 2013, 11:24 AM   #23
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Sometimes i feel like they go through these emergency exercises to see how much they can get away with
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Old April 19, 2013, 11:40 AM   #24
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Quote:
I just wonder how these two were not being watched. They had apparently made a lot of youtube videos calling for violent jihad.
I haven't seen this reported either. The only reports I've seen of their involvement on social media was that it was widespread, involved Russian Rap Music, and a self-described assertion that one brother was islam and liked money and... I think cars, but I'm not sure of the second material item.
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Old April 19, 2013, 11:40 AM   #25
Dragline45
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Sometimes i feel like they go through these emergency exercises to see how much they can get away with
I doubt that's their intentions...
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