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Old April 15, 2013, 02:08 PM   #26
csmsss
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Oh, and pay careful attention to the behavior of the officer in the middle video with respect to the manner in which the sergeant's handgun is removed from his possession and handed to the second officer (the officer sweeps the sergeant's neck and head with the muzzle, and possibly with his finger in the trigger guard - that part is unclear).
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Old April 15, 2013, 02:09 PM   #27
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This M/Sgt. Grisham is a loose cannon. A few years ago he called the Commander-in-Chief a liar.

Quote:
For six years, Master Sergeant C.J. Grisham blogged about veterans issues and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with the aggressiveness you’d expect from a decorated non-commissioned officer.

But when he called President Obama a liar on his blog, and started using the site to go after his local school board, Grisham “found himself the target of an inspector general investigation and a threatened general letter of reprimand. Now his command is exploring formal charges against him,” Military Times reports.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009...geant-grisham/
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Old April 15, 2013, 03:01 PM   #28
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I wouldn't consider him a loose cannon. I would just say that he is politically active. I don't think his decision in reference to Obama was very smart, but you cannot dispute that he is politically active. He was a blogger and an active duty soldier doing what he thought was best. I can't blame him for going after a school board on a blog. Look at the things that are happening in school today, the things being taught.
csmsss,
You have it right. There was no history for the police to go on. Even if they had his history, that, in and of itself, is not a reason to disarm an American Citizen!
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Old April 15, 2013, 03:25 PM   #29
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Quote:
This M/Sgt. Grisham is a loose cannon. A few years ago he called the Commander-in-Chief a liar.
Maybe so, but that doesn't justify the treatment we see in the video.
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Old April 15, 2013, 04:56 PM   #30
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Smother the Mayor and others with what free Americans think about this.
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Old April 15, 2013, 05:46 PM   #31
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Okay, the link in the OP goes to a website with a very flowery description, some photos, and 3 videos. Am I missing some videos?

Since the videos do not show what happened up until Grisham was detained, I can't see where anyone is drawing in conclusions about his guilt or innocence or whether how he was treated was appropriate.

After the videos pick up the action with Grisham cuffed, I see the officers going about their duties disarming him and him complaining left and right...like a lot of people do, then trying to tell the cops what the law is and how they are supposed to do their jobs (which always goes over well, LOL).

In short, without knowing what happened before the video started, it is hard to say if anything wrong went on afterwards. Depending on what happened before the video, the officers actions may have been wholly correct in their actions. That somebody made a website and is playing the war hero card and grand injustice card without other supporting information is a bit hard to follow without more documentation other than showing him after being detained.

The story from Wounded Times NewMilitary sounds a bit different, that Grisham didn't comply with officer commands...

http://newsmilitary.com/pages/124343...ut-down-weapon
http://woundedtimes.blogspot.com/201...ested-for.html
(citing and partially quoting the story from a defunct link of Army Times)

...though Grisham says he did.
http://www.kcentv.com/story/21860185...is-guns-rights

I am interested in all the wild cougars in the area of Temple. I didn't realize Temple was having a great problem with wild cougars.
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Old April 15, 2013, 06:40 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thallub
This M/Sgt. Grisham is a loose cannon. A few years ago he called the Commander-in-Chief a liar.
And as a SGT, I've refered to everybody from my platoon leader up as an idiot before, sometimes worse.

I don't see how that has any relevance on the case.
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Old April 15, 2013, 07:27 PM   #33
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I hope those idiots with badges get fired for their actions and I hope that Sgt. Grisham gets a formal apology and a nice pay out. He is absolutely right that we must stand up for our rights or else we will lose them. The fact that they officers then detained his son, then questioned him without a legal guardian present is utterly unacceptable.
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Old April 15, 2013, 07:46 PM   #34
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And as a SGT, I've refered to everybody from my platoon leader up as an idiot before, sometimes worse.

I don't see how that has any relevance on the case.
It isn't. Neither is that the guy is a MSgt, veteran, or that he was hiking where there were hogs and cougars, that it was purportedly a "Boyscout hike" of 10 miles. Nothing about the situation changes based on any of this information, but Grisham was sure to include all of it, playing up irrelevant issues in order to play up the situation. These are all emotional ploys to gain favor. It changes nothing about whether or not he acted accordingly or if the officers acted accordingly.
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Old April 16, 2013, 10:06 AM   #35
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Double Naught Spy, "Since the videos do not show what happened up until Grisham was detained, I can't see where anyone is drawing in conclusions about his guilt or innocence or whether how he was treated was appropriate."

I think that the officer not telling him why he was being detained other than the manner in which he was carrying his weapon is a pretty good indication of a bogus charge. He did not say he was being detained for pointing his weapon at anyone or shooting in an unsafe manner. The only reason for his detention that I heard was the way he was carrying his weapon. I think that these officers are merely capitalizing on a political climate, and not the law. Hopefully, we can all get the chance to hear the entire conversation which should have been recorded by the officers. I don't think that anyone has said that they know he did not break any laws. However, based on what we saw and what the officers replies were, it doesn't appear too lawful at this point. My legal advice and $20 will get you a very small cup of coffee at Starbucks!

By the way, does anyone know how this is possible?
"At some point, the cop drew his own weapon and pinned Grisham until backup arrived. "
http://www.kcentv.com/story/21860185...is-guns-rights
If you draw your weapon, are you necessarily going to be able to wrestle as well? Was this some type of standoff?
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Old April 16, 2013, 11:12 AM   #36
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Quote:
or that he was hiking where there were hogs and cougars
Are you saying self defense against wild predatory animals is not a "good reason" to go armed? It may not be a requirement for the defense, but it does provide enhanced justification for carrying a rifle around.
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Old April 16, 2013, 11:18 AM   #37
csmsss
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Y'all must not know Texas, particularly rural Texas, very well. In Texas, you are permitted to openly carry a long arm, loaded or not, anywhere firearms are not prohibited. You do not need permission, or have any particular reason, whatsoever. Why this guy was carrying a rifle is irrelevant - the fact is that it is legal in Texas to carry a rifle. This guy was stopped and arrested, as one of the video clearly shows the police officer confirming, simply for possessing a rifle - because one or other citizens who didn't know or didn't care that it was legal complained.
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Old April 16, 2013, 11:21 AM   #38
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I'm not familiar with Texas, nor am I claiming it's relevant to why he was arrested. However irrelevant to to the prosecution isn't necessarily irrelevant to the defense.
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Old April 16, 2013, 11:26 AM   #39
csmsss
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I'm not familiar with Texas, nor am I claiming it's relevant to why he was arrested. However irrelevant to to the prosecution isn't necessarily irrelevant to the defense.
But it's unnecessary in the context of this case. The sergeant doesn't have to justify his possession of a rifle, and it cannot be used as some sort of precursor to an officer's claim of reasonable suspicion in the lawfulness of the arrest. We have the arresting officer on video confirming to the sergeant that he is being arrested for lawful conduct.

If that isn't enough to satisfy folks' as to the illegality of the police officers' conduct, then this is an exercise in futility.
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Old April 16, 2013, 11:41 AM   #40
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Are you saying self defense against wild predatory animals is not a "good reason" to go armed? It may not be a requirement for the defense, but it does provide enhanced justification for carrying a rifle around.
LOL, not saying that at all. Legally, you don't need a "good reason" to go armed, do you? That is clearly stated by Grisham in the video. However, Grisham is playing up a threat to gain favor. However, the threats claimed are virtually nil. If threat from hog and cougar attacks are his justification for carrying, then he is pretty clueless about actual threats in the Temple area. As an Army Intel guy, I really doubt Grisham is that naïve, so he is likely playing up an angle to gain favor with the public in order to raise funds.

Quote:
If that isn't enough to satisfy folks' as to the illegality of the police officers' conduct, then this is an exercise in futility.
While I agree that this is an exercise in futility, it is because we are not seeing the actual events that transpired before the video. The confirmation about which you speak does not appear to be the formal report.
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Old April 16, 2013, 11:59 AM   #41
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Legally, you don't need a "good reason" to go armed, do you?
Nope, and that wasn't my point. My point was limited to the "irrelevance" being claimed. While you don't "need" a reason, having a reason you don't even need is a good thing for a defense.
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Old April 16, 2013, 01:36 PM   #42
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I am trying to figure this part out.

Quote:
A decorated war veteran on a Boy Scout hike with his 15-year-old son was arrested alongside a Texas country road after a police officer accused him of “rudely displaying” a firearm.

Army Master Sgt. C.J. Grisham told Fox News he was illegally disarmed by members of the Temple Police Dept. – even though he held the proper permits to carry his weapons.
So the rural country road is inside the Temple City Limits?

That is an odd way to describe a city road even for Texans.
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Old April 16, 2013, 01:39 PM   #43
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I can't speak for Texas, but in my county, the city limits are drawn really funky, alledgely in order to ensure that one house was in the city limits for high school football purposes, so there are dirt roads and rural areas within inside the city limits, and also county maintained roads within the city limits, that are, rough, to say the least.
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Old April 16, 2013, 02:00 PM   #44
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And we don't know what kind of reciprocity agreements there are between county and town law enforcement. You get rural enough, and that city officer on the south end may be closer than the Deputy.
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Old April 16, 2013, 02:19 PM   #45
csmsss
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So the rural country road is inside the Temple City Limits?

That is an odd way to describe a city road even for Texans.
I'm not familiar with where this incident occurred, but city limits frequently extend well beyond the built-up areas of the city, even in cities outside of Texas. Most Texas cities are low-density, populationwise. Further, many unincorporated towns contract out their police duties to better-funded agencies. So it's not at all out of the realm of possibility that a Temple police officer had enforcement duties well into a rural area.
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Old April 16, 2013, 04:33 PM   #46
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I'm not familiar with where this incident occurred

I am, spent 2 years at Hood, but it was a while ago and things change. And Temple was a few miles down the road from Killeen and Fort Hood.

I see this a couple of different way, not that it matters much.

Some of the things they say the cops said sound absolutely goofy. I almost have a hard time imagining a cop even saying them.

And frequently I lean toward the cop's being correct, usually they have a reason and their reason is so often conveniently not printed because someone has a hangup with cops.

But if all this is portrayed correctly in the report. These cops are so wrong. The filing of a lawsuit would be telling in this case.
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Old April 16, 2013, 05:42 PM   #47
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The filing of a lawsuit would be telling in this case.
Oh so true!

What are the odds a lawsuit will be filed? If it is, we will get to hear the whole story.
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Old April 17, 2013, 01:29 AM   #48
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Here is a link to a radio interview with the Sgt.

http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-18976/TS-736595.mp3

It's a lousy recording.
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Old April 17, 2013, 08:04 AM   #49
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Funny, but the questioning of the child isn't what Grisham is upset about.

Quote:
So the rural country road is inside the Temple City Limits?

That is an odd way to describe a city road even for Texans.
Actually, yes, you can have rural county roads inside the city limits.

Quote:
I'm not familiar with where this incident occurred, but city limits frequently extend well beyond the built-up areas of the city, even in cities outside of Texas. Most Texas cities are low-density, populationwise. Further, many unincorporated towns contract out their police duties to better-funded agencies. So it's not at all out of the realm of possibility that a Temple police officer had enforcement duties well into a rural area.
Right. Plus, legally speaking, Texas peace officers have jurisdiction anywhere in the state. So there is no issue of jurisdiction except maybe whether or not the officers were working outside of their area of primary taxpayer funding.

Quote:
Nope, and that wasn't my point. My point was limited to the "irrelevance" being claimed. While you don't "need" a reason, having a reason you don't even need is a good thing for a defense.
Then I would have claimed the meth-heads in the rural Temple area over hogs and cougars, oh my. There are plenty of reports of meth labs in Temple and in Bell County in general and problems with drug addicts are reasonably common and documentable. Problems with hog and cougar attacks in the area are not, LOL.
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Old April 17, 2013, 08:21 AM   #50
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So there is no issue of jurisdiction except maybe whether or not the officers were working outside of their area of primary taxpayer funding.
And even that isn't, strictly speaking, a "jurisdictional" argument - it's an inter-agency squabble, and usually over money received from fines/confiscated items. Counties, towns and cities like to spend a lot of money on enforcement gear and much of the funding for that comes from recoveries from defendants. They don't want a cop from another county, town or city entering their "turf" and poaching their fish, if you will.
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