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Old April 14, 2013, 08:48 AM   #1
turkeychaser
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Any Idea what this is?

Hi I got this gun from my father when he passed. We have no idea what make it is,or how old. It is a Black Powder shotgun,Percussion,has a 17 inch barrel.Might be 12 gauge but also could be 16 gauge? It has a little trap door on the side to keep things in. I can't find any markings exept for some numbers and letters stamped into the underside of the barrel. I can post some pictures if I can figure out how. Or someone can instruct me as to how to post on here. Thanks for any info.
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Old April 14, 2013, 10:41 AM   #2
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Welcome....

Photos of the shotgun would be helpful.

Sounds like an interesting piece.
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Old April 14, 2013, 10:59 AM   #3
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When you click "Post Reply", there will be an icon of a paper clip (for attachments) on the top row of buttons on the reply box, just to the right of the smilies button, and that opens up a dialogue box that has a "browse" button and you can find your picture and upload it.
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Old April 14, 2013, 02:52 PM   #4
turkeychaser
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Resampled_2013-04-14_14-07-00_296.jpg OK here is a picture of the gun. I think I did it??
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Old April 14, 2013, 02:58 PM   #5
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Can you post pics of the markings on the barrel? and maybe a full length pic. With a 17 inch barrel it was most likely cut down.
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Old April 14, 2013, 03:20 PM   #6
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Gotta say, I really like that trigger guard, much more comfortable looking than on my Traditions "hawken".
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Old April 14, 2013, 03:25 PM   #7
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Yep...

This is getting interesting
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Old April 14, 2013, 03:30 PM   #8
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Interesting. Sliding wood patchbox. Back-action lock. Flat steel buttplate with brass triggerguard.
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Old April 14, 2013, 03:43 PM   #9
turkeychaser
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Here is the full gun.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Resampled_2013-04-14_14-06-37_961.jpg (244.0 KB, 111 views)
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Old April 14, 2013, 03:48 PM   #10
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Could be something like this gun:

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Catego.../494/1/AAI-463
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Old April 14, 2013, 03:53 PM   #11
turkeychaser
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I am working on trying to get a clear picture of the marking under the barrel.
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Old April 14, 2013, 04:00 PM   #12
turkeychaser
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Here are the markings under the barrel
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1086.jpg (92.5 KB, 78 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1804.jpg (101.6 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4451.jpg (106.1 KB, 60 views)
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Old April 14, 2013, 04:55 PM   #13
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Belgian proof marks, I believe.
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Old April 14, 2013, 06:09 PM   #14
turkeychaser
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any Ideas

I would really like to find a nice used black powder shotgun to shoot pheasants and rabbits with. Any suggestions as to where to look?
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Old April 14, 2013, 06:14 PM   #15
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Definitely Belgian proofmarks. I have a Belgian rifle that was bored out to a smoothbore shotgun at some point. I had it relined by Hoyt in .50.
Measure the mouth of the barrel - see if it relates to the 16.3 stamp.

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Old April 14, 2013, 06:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
I would really like to find a nice used black powder shotgun to shoot pheasants and rabbits with. Any suggestions as to where to look?
You can try gunbroker, gunsamerica etc. Might try going to different bp forums and asking around. Somebody somewhere will have one for sale. I bought this Pedersoli 12 gauge SXS off one of the other forums not too long ago.

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Old April 14, 2013, 07:26 PM   #17
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I'm pretty sure that the 18.8 stamp translates to 12 ga. (.74").
Can you remove the nipple?
It looks like the barrel's been cut down, and maybe the stock was shortened.
Oh yeah - have you checked to see if there's anything in the barrel? Powder, shot/ball, squirrel, etc.

Last edited by pohill; April 14, 2013 at 07:40 PM.
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Old April 14, 2013, 08:04 PM   #18
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The Belgian proofmarks, back action lock, and finger groove tang identify it as an European musket or rifle musket that has been sawn off and reamed out for use as a single barrel shotgun. It may have been longer to start with and then sawn off again for handiness, the length in an old catalog with such things was 80 cm = 31 inches.
The stock may have been newly (then, not now) made, the cross keyed foreend, brass forend cap, and sliding patchbox are sporting gun features.
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Old April 15, 2013, 03:57 PM   #19
turkeychaser
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wow lots of info

OK so what type of percussion caps would be used on this gun? I havent tried to get the nipple out yet,I think I have to soak it in some WD first. If I brought it to a gun dealer would they be able to get this gun up and running as it is very sound in all aspects? I really want a black powder shotgun, so if anyone has any nfo on where to look let me know as well. And thanks to all of you guys for helping me out, Its alot more info than I had in the begining.Any Ideas of what it might be worth? Just for giggles.
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Old April 15, 2013, 04:17 PM   #20
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i would say its a Calvary carbine..
might have been cut down ,?????
there are a number of these short carbines from England ,Spain and France in the museum up a Cody Wy . . At lest there was some years back.
the BILHARZ, HALL 1855 carbine was about that size
have you made sure its not loaded ?
i would check that first

Last edited by Captchee; April 15, 2013 at 04:24 PM.
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Old April 15, 2013, 05:32 PM   #21
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Also what is it?

I have recently purchased a pistol that has US 1847 stamped on the right side of the barrel and I have been told it is a Colt Dragoon. My research shows that this pistol was made beginning in 1848. There are Calvary and Indians engraved on the cylinder with the name W.I. Ormsby and the serial numbers all match (E56535) Does anyone know where I can get info on this piece?
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Old April 15, 2013, 06:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
i would say its a Calvary carbine..
might have been cut down ,?????
As per my post #10 above, I think it is a trade gun from the 1830s to 1850s.
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Old April 16, 2013, 06:25 AM   #23
Captchee
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Quote:
As per my post #10 above, I think it is a trade gun from the 1830s to 1850s.
your link must be sending me to a different item then because the one i seeing your link isnt a carbine , its a 1/2 stock fowler ,. could be a trade gun or at least a gun of trade which includes any number of guns both smooth and rifled .

without seeing it and looking for the tell tail signs , its pretty hard to say if it was cut down or not . as i said , it could be . however the transition from O to R is real short and normally when a piece is cut down that transition isnt changed .
But im thinking again its a Calvary carbine

in other words something built for the same purpuse as this was built for

http://collectorebooks.com/jamesauct...lwar/31337.htm

Last edited by Captchee; April 16, 2013 at 06:31 AM.
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Old April 16, 2013, 06:35 AM   #24
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The Belgian proofs are of the pre-1898 type, so you know it's at least that old; there are a couple of different letter stamps up towards the muzzle that aren't really clear (maybe "HD" and something else?). These should be the initials of the company or companies that made the barrels or the entire gun. "HD" makes me think of Henrion & Dassy, but I can't see if that's actually what the marks are.
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Old April 16, 2013, 11:39 AM   #25
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your link must be sending me to a different item then because the one i seeing your link isnt a carbine , its a 1/2 stock fowler ,.
Exactly, I was just trying to show turkeychaser a link to a trade gun (not a carbine) because it looked similar to his.
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