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Old April 13, 2013, 10:31 PM   #26
Tom Servo
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Yes, but you're making the point that we should accept infringements because perception might suffer. I can't get behind that. If we tightened rules up at gun shows, they'd just find something else to nitpick on. It's not as if honesty is the strong point for them here.
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Old April 13, 2013, 10:35 PM   #27
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They will do what ever they can to get our guns.
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Old April 13, 2013, 10:44 PM   #28
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How does turning the guns over to CNN security make the unlawfull buyer less guilty? Is this not a straw buy. Or are news organizations above the law.
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Old April 13, 2013, 10:54 PM   #29
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If we tightened rules up at gun shows, they'd just find something else to nitpick on.
You're right about that.

Quote:
Yes, but you're making the point that we should accept infringements because perception might suffer.
I hope my statements do not come off as advocating for stricter gun laws, because I'm not. I'm merely pointing out that now is not the time for sellers at gun shows to let their guard down. I guess that goes for any private seller. Let's not give the anti's more ammunition to use against us.
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Old April 14, 2013, 01:52 AM   #30
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I noticed that, as well, and I'm a relative novice. The CNN reporter twice said, aghast, "and they didn't even ask me why I wanted the gun." And I thought, why should they? It's none of their business. The only thing I was ever asked is "can I help you?", and if I hesitate, then they ask what I'll be needing the gun for -- but only to help me pick the right tool for the job.
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Old April 15, 2013, 05:33 AM   #31
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It is a good CYA move ,if selling to someone you do not know,to see ID and make a piece of paper"Sold Colt 1911 sn xxxxx to Joe Scmo,DOB 12-23-1964 on Dec 8,2012Sign and date,me and Joe

If someday that handgun is connected to a crime,it won't prove anything,but its a credible trace to present.A thumbprint might be good.
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Old April 15, 2013, 06:44 AM   #32
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CNN is a very, very biased propaganda outlet and I wouldn't believe anything I see there. They are very anti 2A, and want to strip law abiding citizens from having any access to guns for any reason. They are to be ignored, and ridiculed for trying to portray what they sell as "news". Disgusting.
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Old April 15, 2013, 07:08 AM   #33
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So the Pro 2A news reports on CNN are to be ignored as well?

Okay good citizens, you think you witnessed a crime. What did you do about it?
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Old April 15, 2013, 01:25 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by spanishjames
and an AR-15, from sellers who never asked for ID to verify residence
You don't have to be a resident to purchase a rifle...
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Old April 15, 2013, 02:20 PM   #35
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from sellers who never asked for ID to verify residence.
Or at least, that is what the footage carefully edited by CNN appeared to show, right?

But trust CNN to never, ever doctor the video to make a political point? Not I.

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Old April 15, 2013, 03:38 PM   #36
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most of those are small time sellers with no ffl license that go and buy weapons from private sellers themselves. 1-5 a time at a gun show and have no need for a ffl license. but in the guns show promoters case they should ask for and have a copy of the sellers ffl license on file to make sure this doesnt happen. and the short time it takes to fill out a a 4473 and call the background check phone#(3-5 minutes) alot of this problem could be stopped. inexcusable to all licensed sellers who dont sell firearms right.
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Old April 15, 2013, 04:13 PM   #37
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You don't have to be a resident to purchase a rifle...
If you are unlicensed and so is the seller- yes, you do.

An unlicensed buyer can purchase a long gun from an out-of-state FFL if the laws of both states permit it. (The reverse is also true; a FFL can purchase guns in any state, provided they are legal for a FFL to possess in the FFL's place of business.) However, all interstate long gun sales between unlicensed persons must go through an appropriate FFL (i.e. not a C&R licensee).

*(Edited to add info shown in italics.)
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Old April 15, 2013, 04:23 PM   #38
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I bought a gun from a private seller at a gun show. I tried to show him my permit he told me he wasnt an ffl and didnt need it. Paid him and walked out with a ruger gp100 for 325.00

was a while ago as you can tell from the price.
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Old April 15, 2013, 06:30 PM   #39
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Is this not a straw buy
Please guys, correct me if I am wrong here. But a Straw Purchase is buying a gun for someone who can not otherwise legally buy one.

And that check box on the 7743 that says you are buying the gun for yourself includes buying it in order to gift it to someone who can legally own the gun.


Quote:
I bought a gun from a private seller at a gun show. I tried to show him my permit he told me he wasnt an ffl and didnt need it. Paid him and walked out with a ruger gp100 for 325.00

was a while ago as you can tell from the price.

Sounds like a good private sale to me. Nothing wrong with it, unless you are a prohibited possessor. You weren't wearing your "I am a Prohibited Possessor and Proud of it" T-Shirt were you?


Like was said earlier, Private Sales are not supposed to be regulated by the Fed so they aren't. The States have all the power in the world to do so, but the Fed needs to back off and the States should be telling them so.

And yes, these CNN guys need to be reported if they transported the guns across state lines, if the guns went to a CNN Office in-state then no law was broken in taking their cheap shot at gun ownership and the 2A.
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Old April 15, 2013, 06:38 PM   #40
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Please guys, correct me if I am wrong here. But a Straw Purchase is buying a gun for someone who can not otherwise legally buy one.
It's a common misunderstanding. A straw purchase is buying a weapon on behalf of another person, ie. a proxy buy. It doesn't matter whether the recipient is disqualified from owning a gun or not. What matters is whether it's your money buying the gun or not.

In the case of a gift, I'm paying for the gun with my money, then giving it to you. In the case of a straw purchase, I'm using money you gave me to buy a gun, then giving it to you.
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Old April 15, 2013, 07:30 PM   #41
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not sure about other states but being a resident of Oregon i can legally buy a AR in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and a few others i dont remember off the top of my head. on the other hand the handguns are illegal to purchase in any state other than Oregon. when i saw the CNN program the commentator did mention that a few times they were denied sale because a guy asked for ID. so they did throw that out there...but it was like a 5 second comment
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Old April 15, 2013, 09:58 PM   #42
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We in the gun community have got to stop treating private sales as some kind of aberration or loophole. (QUESTION)
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not exactly sure what you are saying above, "we in the gun community", providing one has a little background in dealing guns for me, around 60 years don't just go around selling guns to just anyone, personally i have NOT sold a gun in over 30 years and do not intend to in the future, what i have bought i considered then as an investment..., working out pretty damn good right now considering the falling price of gold.
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Old April 15, 2013, 10:04 PM   #43
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BPowderkeg, what I was saying there is this: Much of the American public seems to already believe that every sale should have a background check, that there is some mysterious "loophole" which allows sales at gun shows to escape background checks entirely. If we (as a community) continue to treat private sales with no background checks as something out-of-the-ordinary, that only strengthens that perception. As a consequence, more and more people will come to believe that there was some error in legal drafting, and that said "loophole" must be closed.
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Old April 16, 2013, 07:19 AM   #44
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I watched this on CNN as well. Sometimes it feels like we are fighting a losing battle. The media and left will not rest until our rights are stripped away.
let's be careful who we point fingers at in this debate, especially when it's gun owners who are the ones breaking the law. just because the media shines a light on it doesn't make it go away. I have no doubt that this isn't an isolated incident and that these illegal gun transactions are going on across the country
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Old April 16, 2013, 07:53 AM   #45
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Most of these low volume buy and sell hobbyists used to go thorugh the procedure to get FFLs until the Clinton Administartion decided to clamp down, raise FFL fees, and require a store front and ran them "out of business" so to speak, and making them non-FFL gun show hobbyists was an unintented result.

I think the whole point o this background check debate should be centered on the fact that the person who misreprents himself and purchases a gun in violation of the law, whether it be residency, or criminal status, or other, is the person who has committed a crime and should be prosecuted (which is almost never done) where the background check people seem to wish to elevate the "crime" of not doing an investigation and being a policeman and preventing said crime more serious than the crime of an illegal purchase itself. These seem to be the only types of offenses where "not preventing the crime" is a more serious offense than committing it.
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Old April 16, 2013, 07:58 AM   #46
Dashunde
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That is one nauseatingly slanted report.
Freedom of the press does not include the freedom to break laws to get the story.
I'd love to see the follow-up report where they are arrested for intentionally buying weapons out of state and as straw purchases by using CNN money.
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Old April 16, 2013, 08:51 AM   #47
carguychris
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Originally Posted by lcpiper
Please guys, correct me if I am wrong here. But a Straw Purchase is buying a gun for someone who can not otherwise legally buy one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
It's a common misunderstanding. A straw purchase is buying a weapon on behalf of another person, ie. a proxy buy. It doesn't matter whether the recipient is disqualified from owning a gun or not. What matters is whether it's your money buying the gun or not.
While Tom is absolutely correct, I think it's helpful to point out that providing a firearm to a prohibited person is a separate crime in and of itself. A person can be charged with both crimes for the same incident.

Although many straw purchases presumably involve prohibited persons, this is not universally true. For instance, an unlicensed person who is lawfully permitted to own a firearm may initiate a straw purchase under the mistaken belief that the Form 4473 is sent to the Feds, or because she is trying to conceal her assets from creditors, the IRS, and/or litigants in a civil suit.
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Old April 16, 2013, 08:58 AM   #48
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what I was saying there is this: Much of the American public seems to already believe that every sale should have a background check, that there is some mysterious "loophole" which allows sales at gun shows to escape background checks entirely. If we (as a community) continue to treat private sales with no background checks as something out-of-the-ordinary, that only strengthens that perception. As a consequence, more and more people will come to believe that there was some error in legal drafting, and that said "loophole" must be closed.
Agreed, but I would add one caveat. The media, and statist politicians are conditioning the general public to believe there is a "gun show loophole", and that "something must be done" to stop it that will help curtail "gun violence".
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Old April 16, 2013, 09:13 AM   #49
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I'll grudgingly admit that I'm impressed with the anti-gunners' Public Relations machine. By adopting the term "gun show loophole", they managed to skip over the whole part where we discuss whether or not private citizens should be able to buy and sell their private property to one another without a background check.

Instead, they've presented it as a forgone conclusion that there's a "problem" that needs to be fixed, and if you don't agree, then you're obstructionist or "shady".
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Old April 16, 2013, 09:18 AM   #50
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Committing a crime (such as selling a firearm to a prohibited person) takes intent. I have often attended gun shows where there are many many non-residents attending. If I am at one of these shows and looking to buy from a private seller, I assume that the seller is doing so legally. It is not my job to determine if they are legal. I do worry about buying a stolen gun. I know that I'm a non-prohibited person, and I work from that perspective. I am not my brother's keeper. Nor do I believe the Federal government should be my keeper either.

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