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Old April 19, 2013, 04:32 PM   #1
Dashunde
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NRA members compared to those of TFL?

Our recent TFL pole/thread has expressed a clear 75+% NO to expanded background checks; ie closing gun show "loop holes".
Conversely, I heard from 3 separate radio stations today that the "majority" of NRA members favored expanded background checks.
(Later ID'd as the Quinnipiac Poll)

Either:
A) The news outlets are making things up (definitely possible) about the positions of NRA members.
or
B) We at the TFL, the premier internet firearms forum, are at odds with the general consensus of NRA members.

The difference has caused me to wonder how we at the TFL compare to the much larger membership of the NRA and whether or not we are further Right than the NRA.

Recent Busch news only served to bring TFL/NRA differences to my attention... previous references to it have been deleted, its not relevant.

Your thoughts?

Last edited by Dashunde; April 20, 2013 at 10:30 PM. Reason: Clarity - this isnt about Busch
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Old April 19, 2013, 04:41 PM   #2
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Quote:
[I]t calls into question how we at the TFL compare to the much larger membership of the NRA and whether or not we are further Right than the NRA.
Just a reminder: even though the majorities on both sides of the background check issue fall along right/left lines, there are substantial minorities on both sides, as well. We need to frame the discussion in terms of positions on the issue at hand, and not in terms of right/left politics.
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Old April 19, 2013, 05:02 PM   #3
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Part of the disconnect, is in the way polls are conducted. If I were asked "do you support background checks" (in a generic sense), the answer would be yes. But I did not support the recent senate bill expanding such checks. I think it very disingenuous for Obama, Biden and others to continually claim that 90% of Americans support background checks. The truth is that I and most of my fellow shooters have no problem with the way background checks are conducted currently at the LGS. However, I absolutely do not want the federal government to expand any further in this area.
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Old April 19, 2013, 05:04 PM   #4
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The poll you cite received less than 200 responses. This is a very small sample with a large degree of error. Further you cannot reconcile the question asked in the TFL poll against what the NBC/Gallup/CNN polls asked. The media polls did not usually specify expanded checks, just BCs.

You could try another poll for your answer - something like:

NRA members ONLY: Do you support Background checks?
A) No, I do not support any background checks
B) Yes, I support current background checks for FFL transactions ONLY
C) Yes, I support expanding background checks to include private sales (excepting sales between immediate and extended family members)


Also, general poll results indicating support of BCs should not be taken to mean support of the M-T Amendment that was just voted down. That was just a poor piece of legislation, IMO.
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Old April 19, 2013, 05:13 PM   #5
Brian Pfleuger
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Well, the media isn't "making things up", in this case... The statistic comes from a Quinnipiac Poll, here.

The trouble, I think, is the same as with so many other things. Issues are not defined and the respondents are not necessarily educated on the topic. So, the opinions are uniformed.

My own father often has "opinions" that are directly contrary to his core beliefs. He hears things that his co-workers are parroting from this or that news outlet, flavored with their own interpretation/agenda and he assumes it's true.

After I explain the "other side", his opinions come back inline with his general world-view.
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Old April 19, 2013, 05:27 PM   #6
Willie Sutton
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<deleted comments, as they were about another Busch, who I mistakenly believed was the one being discussed>


<but leave this, which is still accurate in fact and in spirit>



His opinions regarding the NRA are completely irrelevent: "Good Riddance".



Willie


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Old April 19, 2013, 05:28 PM   #7
Dashunde
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Quote:
The poll you cite received less than 200 responses.
Very true, it also listed everyone who voted in catagory by name, likely squelching many votes.
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Old April 19, 2013, 06:46 PM   #8
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He doesn't have the first clue what he's talking about. All of this nonsense about the NRA being "the gun lobby," as if it represents some massive, ultra-powerful gun manufacturing industry or something, is spewed by the gun control proponents to mislead people. Gun manufacturing is about a $12 to $15 billion industry. That's tiny when compared to the big financial, banking, defense, retail, and so forth companies, where each individual company is significantly larger than the entire gun manufacturing industry.

There is no way on Earth such a little industry could have the financial capability to finance what is the most powerful lobby in the country. What makes the NRA so influential is the massive amount of American people who support it. It is the largest civil rights organization in the country with four million, and now maybe five million, members, but it also has the ear of about 10X that many non-members who look to it for advice on the issue. I'm not saying they follow it like lambs, but they at least listen to it nonetheless. That means that the NRA has some degree of influence with about 40 to 50 million people in this country.

THAT is what makes it so powerful. The reason the NRA has so much influence in America is because the NRA, to a good degree, IS America. he also talks about "hunters," as if the Second Amendment has anything to do with hunting. He also talks about "assault weapons" and "high-capacity magazines," which means he's clueless as to what those terms really mean.

As for this claim about the 90% statistic, what is also ignored is that even if true, a whole lot of the people answering it are not giving an informed answer. For example, I think it's about 60% polled were in favor of an assault weapons ban. I'd be willing to bet that if you explained in detail the facts to every one of those polled, the support for an AWB would go down to something like 40% or 30% or less. The only people who would support such a ban are those who just don't believe in guns.
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Old April 19, 2013, 08:35 PM   #9
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So he turned in his life membership. Big whoop.

The NRA has added hundreds of thousands of members over the last few months... if people were against their work, they'd not have jumped by almost a million members since December.



However, this is not the same Busch family member as the one whose home was the location of the death of Adrienne Martin. Same family, different person. The article refers to Adolphus Busch IV. The one who had Ms. Martin die in his home was Augustus Busch IV.
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Old April 19, 2013, 08:37 PM   #10
Willie Sutton
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However, this is not the same Busch family member as the one with the drug history and connections to the death of Adrienne Martin. Same family, different person.



I stand corrected. August Adolphus Busch IV and Adolphus Busch IV... need a scorecard to keep it straight. Franktly I was surprised that Augie-4 would have even been a member of the NRA. I guess I am pleased, he was always a decent guy to me, albeit one that I would not encourage my sister to date.



Willie


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Old April 19, 2013, 09:15 PM   #11
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LogicMan. Well stated. I agree.
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Old April 19, 2013, 09:40 PM   #12
mayosligo
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NRA members compared to those of TFL?

Don't care what he thinks no am an NRA member and I was against the bill. Why not ask that question- were you against the bill.
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Old April 19, 2013, 09:42 PM   #13
Tom Servo
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Quote:
Conversely, I heard from 3 separate radio stations today that the "majority" of NRA members favored expanded background checks.
The question is always "where and how did they get that number?"

Consider a blurb in this month's American Rifleman:

Quote:
93 Percent oppose a law requiring gun owners to register with the federal government. 92 percent oppose a new federal law banning the sale of firearms between private citizens. [p. 35]
Even if the truth lies somewhere in the middle, it leans closer to "no." The answers can also change depending on the context and wording of the question.

Even though it's a falsehood, one side banked on their statistics, no matter how inaccurate they might be. The other side made its voice known to politicians directly. For once, it worked.
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Old April 20, 2013, 03:45 PM   #14
novacz
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Well, the media isn't "making things up", in this case... The statistic comes from a Quinnipiac Poll, here.
I was actually one of the virginians polled. I answered that one DK/NA and explained that there is no such thing as a gun show loophole.
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Old April 20, 2013, 04:35 PM   #15
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He also wrecked his Corvette and a woman was killed. That puts him one up on Ted Kennedy. And 2 up on me and my ARs. NRA is better off with out his arrogant butt.
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Old April 20, 2013, 06:33 PM   #16
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Mr. Busch's comments notwithstanding, the majority of NRA members does not constitute, nor speak for, the whole of US gun owners.
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Old April 20, 2013, 07:05 PM   #17
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Well, I can't speak for the other several million members of the nra, but I wasn't polled for anything. My answer would have been that I don't support expanding background checks. That being said, I don't mind the system we have now.
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Old April 20, 2013, 08:10 PM   #18
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Mr. Busch's personal history isn't appropriate discussion for this forum. Let's stick with debating ideas, not people.

That said, I'd never even heard of this guy before. I don't think his leaving will have much of an effect one way or another.
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Last edited by Tom Servo; April 20, 2013 at 09:52 PM.
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Old April 20, 2013, 08:23 PM   #19
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The way the administration talks about the background check bill is like there isn't one now or one for internet sales.

We all know there are both but the average non-gun owner probably doesn't know a thing about the current laws and is only taking in what they are being told. If they knew the laws and what already exists would they want more or would they demand for the current checks to be enforced.

I am thinking they might be like me. Thinking what the heck is Obama talking about? We already have federal background checks for all dealer and internet gun sales so why is he talking like there are NONE?

Well WE know why, to make it seems there are none to the average person to build support for the "background check" bill which would more accurately be called the "road to registration" bill.
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Old April 20, 2013, 10:47 PM   #20
Alabama Shooter
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Quote:
Our recent TFL pole/thread has expressed a clear 75+% NO to expanded background checks; ie closing gun show "loop holes".
That isn't what the poll asked. It sounds like whoever wrote the poll was afraid to ask the full question and instead just wrote a general question that can be interpreted however broadly they want. Sounds a lot like what the media does. That is pretty disappointing and behavior I would expect from an anti gunner.

I expected better out of this site.
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Old April 20, 2013, 10:59 PM   #21
Dashunde
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Yea, your right, the pole here wasnt focused on it, but the conversation evolved into a fair amount of discussion about non-retail background checks.

Regardless, the vocalized thoughts in that thread appear quite different from the NRA members contacted for the university poll that covers several questions.
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Old April 20, 2013, 11:05 PM   #22
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Regardless, the vocalized thoughts in that thread appear quite different from the NRA members contacted for the university poll that covers several questions.

I don't know why that would be surprising. This is site heavily involved with gun rights and the NRA is a broad canopy organization of shooters from all walks of life. There is no monolithic school of thought to try to characterize it as such is a pointless endeavor.
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Old April 21, 2013, 12:34 AM   #23
Dashunde
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Its surprising because the spread is so wide to the point of completely opposite.
90+% for background checks at gun shows in their poll vs 75% against additional laws here.

Of course the poles are far from identical, but still.. that’s a big difference amongst folks with a common interest in firearms.

The members of TFL are from equally broad walks of life, perhaps morso.
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Old April 21, 2013, 08:11 AM   #24
Brian Pfleuger
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"Walks of life" is not the deciding factor, its education on the particular issue. TFLs membership is, by and large, FAR more educated on firearms and legal/constitutional questions than is "John Q Public".
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Old April 21, 2013, 08:43 AM   #25
Alabama Shooter
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"Walks of life" is not the deciding factor, its education on the particular issue.
WoL is too generic of a term.

Education certainly is not the only deciding factor. If that were true anyone could be educated enough to adopt a particular "right" view point about anything.
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