The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 2, 2013, 02:11 PM   #1
8MM Mauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 16, 2011
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 546
SD9 vs G19 vs P95 three way smack down

Hello folks. I'm in the market for a pistol and have several options in front of me right now. I would like a gun that can be carried, but not
Necessarily all the time, since it would be impossible for me to do so anyway. My HD is pretty much covered by my Mossberg 500; but it would nice to have a backup to that / something I could access faster.

One choice is a Glock 19, probably going to cost me $550 or so; another possibility is a S&W SD9, probably going to run me $330 ish plus $25 for an ape trigger kit; the third option is a Ruger P95, which seem to be going for around $350 or so at the moment.

Now, I've heard good and bad about all these guns; the Glock is the most expensive but supposedly the most rugged and reliable and is certainly the most iconic, and as a former candidate for the local police academy I've
Shot Glocks quite a lot, so am the most familiar with them. The con here is that is carries the highest price tag; delaying both the weapon purchase itself as well as actually acquiring a carry license by several months at best.

The Ruger is the least carry friendly of the three and technically the cheapest, like the Glock they are rugged and reliable; intimidating looking too! Though I must say I think I actually the Glock ergos better, but by a slim margin. Also, I am less used to a safety.

Now, the SD9, if I understand it correctly this is basically a copy of the Glock, especially once the trigger is improved. It seems like the best deal on the face of it; but what am I missing with an SD9 nine that I get with a Glock? And that brings me to another question? If the SD is a Glock copy and the M&P is supposed to be a step up from the SD is it also a step up from the Glock? Would it be worth waiting even longer for an M&P?

So TFL, advise me! I've got a couple months of saving before I go ahead with this purchase...
8MM Mauser is offline  
Old March 2, 2013, 02:39 PM   #2
JohnMoses
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 11, 2008
Posts: 107
Of the 3, the G19 is head and shoulders above the rest. It has been there done that.
The Smith is bottom of the heap. The crappy Sigma trigger pull has always annoyed me and I wouldn't spend a nickle putting lipstick on that market failure pig.
As to the Ruger, you say intimidating, I say fugly. For concealment purposes, it would be like carrying a brick. But that's what its ergomatics emulate. It is boringly reliable though.
I'll post again when I firm up my opinions.
JohnMoses is offline  
Old March 2, 2013, 02:41 PM   #3
shootniron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 16, 2011
Posts: 1,147
Quote:
Of the 3, the G19 is head and shoulders above the rest. It has been there done that.
The Smith is bottom of the heap. The crappy Sigma trigger pull has always annoyed me and I wouldn't spend a nickle putting lipstick on that market failure pig.
As to the Ruger, you say intimidating, I say fugly. For concealment purposes, it would be like carrying a brick. But that's what its ergomatics emulate. It is boringly reliable though.
I'll post again when I firm up my opinions.
I don't really care for any of the 3, but I would agree with this statement.
shootniron is offline  
Old March 2, 2013, 04:05 PM   #4
9mm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 9, 2011
Location: Land of the Free
Posts: 2,720
Glock 19 hands down, what LEO use.
__________________
See user title
9mm is offline  
Old March 2, 2013, 04:44 PM   #5
lee n. field
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2002
Location: The same state as Mordor.
Posts: 3,449
Quote:
One choice is a Glock 19, probably going to cost me $550 or so; another possibility is a S&W SD9, probably going to run me $330 ish plus $25 for an ape trigger kit; the third option is a Ruger P95, which seem to be going for around $350 or so at the moment.

So TFL, advise me! I've got a couple months of saving before I go ahead with this purchase...
Pick one. It doesn't much matter.

I would go, if possible, in this order: 1) Glock (myriad of accessories), 2) Ruger (solid reputation, last holdout of the Ruger P-series), 3) SD9 (not much to say about it, new product with little history or aftermarket support).
__________________
"As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. "

Last edited by lee n. field; March 2, 2013 at 06:07 PM.
lee n. field is offline  
Old March 2, 2013, 05:05 PM   #6
KO3422
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 6, 2011
Posts: 124
G19 for me. Parts and mags always seemed to be available and at a reasonable price back in the day.
KO3422 is offline  
Old March 2, 2013, 05:13 PM   #7
PeterGunn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 28, 1999
Location: Millington, TN
Posts: 735
Glock 19... Without a doubt.

Not that the other guns you have selected are "bad" but with the wide availability of parts, mags, holsters, aftermarket mods, and the ease of maintenance and repair it's a no brainer... at least for me.

With a simple tool and youtube or even a Glock DVD, most anyone can effect repairs or mods on a Glock. Rugers and S&Ws are a bit tighter with their parts and usually require a trip to the factory or a gunsmith for even simple repairs. For some, this may not be a big deal, but for me it's what takes Glock over the top for me.
__________________
"By His stripes we are healed..."

PeterGunn
PeterGunn is offline  
Old March 2, 2013, 06:01 PM   #8
elDiabloLoco
Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 77
If it matters, the P95 is DA/SA.

Glocks are good technology, but the trigger of every one I have fired is not at all to my liking. The SD I tried was worse - longer, heavier, and scratchy. That was with a new , so it may improve with another 1000 rounds or the 30 buck trigger kit.

P95 in DA feels like the SD(i.e. long and mushy), but P95 SA is very good, and similar to my favorite deer rifle. And very similar to the older S&W 6906. But concealing a P95 would be most difficult of the bunch.

So if you LIKED the glocks you fired......choke up the extra 2 bills and find a way to rationalize the cost. I got something I liked and had 250 extra - ain't neva no 550 glocks where i have been.....best I saw when shopping was 599. Cannot believe they have gone down lately.
elDiabloLoco is offline  
Old March 2, 2013, 08:12 PM   #9
8MM Mauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 16, 2011
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 546
Pick one. It doesn't much matter.

I would go, if possible, in this order: 1) Glock (myriad of accessories), 2) Ruger (solid reputation, last holdout of the Ruger P-series), 3) SD9 (not much to say about it, new product with little history or aftermarket support).
Quote:
Makes sense to me.

Quote:
Glock 19... Without a doubt.

Not that the other guns you have selected are "bad" but with the wide availability of parts, mags, holsters, aftermarket mods, and the ease of maintenance and repair it's a no brainer... at least for me.

With a simple tool and youtube or even a Glock DVD, most anyone can effect repairs or mods on a Glock. Rugers and S&Ws are a bit tighter with their parts and usually require a trip to the factory or a gunsmith for even simple repairs. For some, this may not be a big deal, but for me it's what takes Glock over the top for me.
That is an excellent point and actually something quite important to me that was not in my thinking, posts like this are the reason I come hear to ask for opinions, thank you.

Quote:
If it matters, the P95 is DA/SA.

Glocks are good technology, but the trigger of every one I have fired is not at all to my liking. The SD I tried was worse - longer, heavier, and scratchy. That was with a new , so it may improve with another 1000 rounds or the 30 buck trigger kit.

P95 in DA feels like the SD(i.e. long and mushy), but P95 SA is very good, and similar to my favorite deer rifle. And very similar to the older S&W 6906. But concealing a P95 would be most difficult of the bunch.

So if you LIKED the glocks you fired......choke up the extra 2 bills and find a way to rationalize the cost. I got something I liked and had 250 extra - ain't neva no 550 glocks where i have been.....best I saw when shopping was 599. Cannot believe they have gone down lately.
DA/SA is interesting to me, but I'm not currently familiar with it.

It sounds like it'll probably just be worth it to save longer. I've had terrible luck the last couple years in that every time I've decided to save for a (not .22lr) Pistol I've had to fix this or that on the car or pay this or that unexpected expense. I would of course like to be able to buy before the government starts banning mag sizes, but who knows when/if that coming.

I did like the Glocks I fired just fine, and it seems like a solid platform to build upon. Every time I go back I'm astounded by how long the trigger pull is (which is sort of what attracts me to DA/SA) since all the guns I currently own are Shotguns, Rifles, and single action pistols which all have comparatively awesome triggers.

A glock 19 around here is normally priced around $530 or so, up a little to $550 right now. My grandfather is an FFL though, and I bet if I asked real nice he would get me an even better price.

Thank you all for helping me think through this choice, the world of poly-framed auto's is new to me.
8MM Mauser is offline  
Old March 2, 2013, 08:18 PM   #10
certified106
Member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2013
Posts: 51
Re: SD9 vs G19 vs P95 three way smack down

Stay away from the SD9 IMO....... I have had sigmas and I no longer own them for a reason! I have shot G22's, G19's and G23's of those three Glocks I own a G23 and love it! I vote for the Glock.
certified106 is offline  
Old March 2, 2013, 08:37 PM   #11
6.8
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2013
Posts: 316
Ruger, all the way, no blocks
6.8 is offline  
Old March 3, 2013, 09:01 PM   #12
745SW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2011
Location: California
Posts: 291
My vote is for the G19.

In my view the Ruger P95 (4”) is a carryover of the original all metal (aluminum frame) full size (4.5”) P80 series. I believe, correct if in error, Ruger’s first pistols (auto loading handguns). The P series, such as my P89, uses a takedown pin and barrel link similar to that of 1911’s but without a barrel bushing. This eliminates the need for a steel locking block insert found in pistols using an alloy or polymer frame. Locking block inserts are known to break while the link and pin method appears to break substantially less. IMO the reason Glock chose a striker based pistol is the low mass of the polymer receiver would cause the cocking hammer to exert the force of the recoiling slide early to the low mass frame. This would make the pistol more sensitive as to how it is held for it to cycle properly.

While the CS of S&W and Ruger can be said to be among the best Glock has a history of being willing and able to replace the polymer frame. The “able” is perhaps related to their popularity, high volume, and generation compatibility. A gen1 slide and barrel appears will work with a gen3 frame.
745SW is offline  
Old March 3, 2013, 09:06 PM   #13
lee n. field
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2002
Location: The same state as Mordor.
Posts: 3,449
Quote:
The P series, such as my P89, uses a takedown pin and barrel link similar to that of 1911’s but without a barrel bushing.
Some do, some do not. They replaced the barrel link with a "cam block" arrangement somewhere in the middle of the series.

Quote:
While the CS of S&W and Ruger can be said to be among the best Glock has a history of being willing and able to replace the polymer frame. The “able” is perhaps related to their popularity, high volume, and generation compatibility.
I've never heard of a broken frame on a polymer P series Ruger.
__________________
"As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. "
lee n. field is offline  
Old March 3, 2013, 09:12 PM   #14
MercyfulFate
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 14, 2013
Posts: 138
The SD9 is kind of out of place in this group, no?
__________________
Massachusetts Native (Tough to be a gun owner!)

Owner of: S&W Model 10-5, Beretta 92fs and a Mossberg Maverick 88 "Security" Shotgun
MercyfulFate is offline  
Old March 3, 2013, 09:24 PM   #15
chris in va
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2004
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 12,640
Quote:
Necessarily all the time, since it would be impossible for me to do so anyway
Curious, why not?
chris in va is offline  
Old March 3, 2013, 09:31 PM   #16
Walt Sherrill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 1999
Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Posts: 4,598
I've had both the Glock and the Ruger, but not the SD9 -- so can;t address that gun.

Of the two, the Glock 19 or the Ruger P95, I'd probaby go with the Glock, but it's not as easy a choice as you might think. Everyone talks about the RUGER being a brick, but if you check measurements you'll see that there's not that much difference between the Glock and Ruger. They just look different, and the Ruger LOOKs clunky. The newer SR9 is a big improvement in that regard. More about the SR9, shortly.

The P95 I had was a tack driver. A local gunsmith worked on the trigger for me, and did improve it -- but said there's not much you can do to make it a lot better. You can make a Glock trigger better pretty inexpensively, but it's still a Glock trigger. (That's not a condemnation, as I have two Glocks right now, and like them both, and have had a number of others over the years.) I traded the P95 away, lured by the siren call of SIGs. (I've since decided that SIGs are OK, but I'm not crazy about them. That said, I've got three, right now.)

I think you should try renting both (or all three) and try them out. It's sometimes costly to rent a gun (if a friend doesn't have one you can try), but it's a lot cheaper than buying a gun you later despise.

I'd also give some thought to the Ruger SR9 or SR9c -- I have an SR9 with a Ghost trigger kit installed, and it's really impressive. I think it does everything the Glock does, at least as well, and is smaller. The SR9c may be my next purchase or swap. Why go the P95 route when a newer, arguably better technology is available from the same company, and the price won't be that different!!

The only thing Glock does that the Ruger hasn't done, is build a gun with a lot fewer parts... (I think there are almost as many parts in the SR9/SR9c Ruger's fire control assembly as in the entire Glock pistol.) Detail stripping a Glock is, of course a LOT easier -- and there are a lot of handbooks and manuals that make it even easier.

Last edited by Walt Sherrill; March 3, 2013 at 09:59 PM.
Walt Sherrill is offline  
Old March 3, 2013, 09:40 PM   #17
745SW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2011
Location: California
Posts: 291
“I've never heard of a broken frame on a polymer P series Ruger.”

Assuming the polymer Ruger’s came out around the time the P89 was discontinued, around 2008, the polymer Ruger’s are comparatively late models. Some Glock’s that have been serviced go back toward the early 90’s.
745SW is offline  
Old March 4, 2013, 01:08 AM   #18
Laz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 1999
Posts: 1,000
Quote:
Assuming the polymer Ruger’s came out around the time the P89 was discontinued, around 2008, the polymer Ruger’s are comparatively late models.
Not so. The first polymer P-Series was and is also the last. The P95 was named after the year of its introduction - Ta Da - 1995. The .45 caliber P97 came along in 1997. Now you may be right considering the SR series, I'm not sure.
__________________
Laz

Use it up. Wear it out. Make it do, or do without.
Laz is offline  
Old March 4, 2013, 03:04 AM   #19
LockedBreech
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2009
Location: Rocky Mountain West
Posts: 3,150
All three guns listed are respectable firearms. None of the three are junk.

That said, the G19 is profoundly better, and a few years from now you'll be very happy you spent a little more coin.
__________________
Beretta PX4; 92FS; 92S; 8040G | Rock Island GI 1911 | Sig Sauer SP2022; P6 | Colt Python 4"; 1968 Detective Special 2"| Smith & Wesson M642 No-Lock | Ruger LCP; 10/22 | Daniel Defense M4V1 | Remington 870 | Alpine M1 Carbine | Steyr M1895 |1943 Izhevsk Mosin M91/30 | Walther PPS
LockedBreech is offline  
Old March 4, 2013, 03:21 AM   #20
Tickling
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 17, 2011
Posts: 181
Or you could spend a little less coin and still be happy, look into the Ruger SR-9.

Of those three, I'd recommend the Glock 19 or Ruger P-95, whichever fits you best. If you can't conceal it, I really don't see the point of the Glock 19, as opposed to the Glock 17, but I'm sure you have your reasons.
Tickling is offline  
Old March 4, 2013, 03:43 AM   #21
6.8
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2013
Posts: 316
Rumble in the Jungle. Why would the Block be better? Better at what? I've owned a couple P95s both utterly reliable and very accurate. More Accurate than I can shoot. As a matter of fact I'm looking for one right now. I would recommend the Kp-95D the Stainless decocker only model.
6.8 is offline  
Old March 4, 2013, 04:35 AM   #22
745SW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2011
Location: California
Posts: 291
“Not so. The first polymer P-Series was and is also the last. The P95 was named after the year of its introduction - Ta Da - 1995. The .45 caliber P97 came along in 1997. Now you may be right considering the SR series, I'm not sure.”

My goof, I should think more before posting.

“I've never heard of a broken frame on a polymer P series Ruger.”

I never seen or heard of frames cracking or barrels breaking on the alloy framed Walther P5 until fairly recently. Not really bad considering the pistol was developed by 1977 and available here since the early eighties or so. Cracked framed P5’s are those of the Dutch police using heavy A3 and Action Effect ammunition.

“Some do, some do not. They replaced the barrel link with a "cam block" arrangement somewhere in the middle of the series.”

The P95 appears to use the cam block you speak of and the takedown pin appears to anchor the locking block that is integrated with the recoil spring guide. Interesting change and wondering whether it’s related to the frame material change.
745SW is offline  
Old March 4, 2013, 01:53 PM   #23
Laz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 1999
Posts: 1,000
Quote:
Interesting change and wondering whether it’s related to the frame material change.
I believe you are correct in that assumption if I remember correctly articles written when the P95 was introduced. The variation of Dow Isoplast polymer used for the frame is exceedingly tough stuff (even used to make gear wheels in certain industrial applications), but the cam block was introduced to reduce or even out stress and impact forces on the polymer frame. Or, so I remember reading.
__________________
Laz

Use it up. Wear it out. Make it do, or do without.
Laz is offline  
Old March 4, 2013, 08:24 PM   #24
745SW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2011
Location: California
Posts: 291
“Rumble in the Jungle. Why would the Block be better? Better at what? I've owned a couple P95s both utterly reliable and very accurate.”

I assume you mean the locking block method with bushingless barrel. This method of lockup from JMB’s Hi-Power, I feel, to have some outstanding elements. In my view it’s a self-compensating design in terms of wear and debris compared to the link, pin and bushing method of the 1911.

The P95 appears to be an outstanding value and I’m sure in the right hands it will excel. I prefer a pistol that will function under adverse conditions like being fatigued with an improper hold in the remote chance of a SD situation.
745SW is offline  
Old April 22, 2013, 10:38 AM   #25
presspics
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2001
Location: NH
Posts: 266
I'm not understanding the hatred toward the S&W SD9. Seems to be some carry over opinions treating the SD as if it were the same gun as the SIGMA series. It's not. The SD Series are fantastic guns at a very reasonable price. I've owned just about every gun that is made at one time or another. My preferred 9mm is a Browning High Power. Given the 3 choices above I would rate them all pretty equally. The Glock 19 is a great gun and has lots of aftermarket parts support if you are into customizing your gun. The S&W SD pistols use the same sights as the M&P series so you have plenty of choices there. APEX also makes a great trigger kit for the S&W SD. I have that kit in my SD40 and it works beautifully. The Ruger probably has the least aftermarket support..

I've owned many Glocks over the years. They are good guns but the grip design and grip angle suck. The S&W SD9 is very similar to the Glock but with a much better grip. Try all 3 if you can and choose on which one you like the best. They are all equally good guns and you won't be disappointed no matter which one you choose.
__________________
"Quid Clarius Astris"
presspics is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13707 seconds with 9 queries