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Old April 10, 2013, 05:41 PM   #26
Joe_Pike
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I was toying with the idea of one of their 1911s when I had the money, but not now. Almost went with an 870 but went with a 500 instead. Glad I did.
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Old April 10, 2013, 06:30 PM   #27
FoghornLeghorn
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Just so I understand.

We are now insisting that all gun and gun related companies leave all states that have imposed restrictive laws otherwise we boycott?

Seriously?
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Old April 10, 2013, 06:43 PM   #28
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Mossberg is headquartered in Connecticut... how is that any better than Remington operating a plant in New York?

While we may want all the manufacturers to move from these states, it's not likely that they can relocate operations that easily.

Last edited by LeverGunFan; April 10, 2013 at 06:50 PM.
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Old April 10, 2013, 07:05 PM   #29
larryh1108
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Quote:
Just so I understand.

We are now insisting that all gun and gun related companies leave all states that have imposed restrictive laws otherwise we boycott?

Seriously?
Yes, seriously.

Of course, each one of us has our own mind and our own reasons.

Live in a state that is stripping you of your rights, behind the cover of darkness and to take advantage of an emotional issue, and see how your eyes see things. Write your letters, send your emails, make your calls, show up at the rallys and see that they just don't care about our rights and what we want. I will do everything I can to see that every one who voted for these new laws is not reelected. However, there are some fights we won't win because we don't matter.

Any company that chooses to stay in a state like NY, CO and CT and they cannot sell their product to their own residents are not thinking about their customers. Sure, it's a business and we, as consumers, can make the choice to not buy their products because they care more about the money than the principles we are fighting and losing. I will go out of my way to patronize the companies that are pulling out and moving because we are getting jobbed.

Sure, it's not easy to up and move a company. However, states that want them can help a lot. They can offer cheap land, tax breaks and help pay for the actual move. The article said Remington was going to retool so why not do it in a new plant in a new state?

Yes, 1200 jobs lost in NY if Remington moves. I'm sure many will move but if they don't then it sucks for those people. They will still get to vote, though. Maybe they'll think twice about who they vote for. If NYS loses 1200 jobs then that means that the new state gets those 1200 jobs. NYS will lose the taxes generated as well as the corporate profit taxes, etc. The new state will get those taxes. One loses and another wins. People lose jobs and people get jobs. NYS can pay for unemployment for the year for those who they helped put out of work. They don't care, they passed their bill. They don't care about the tax payer, they care about pleasing Obama and Bloomberg.

So, do what you have to do.

Me? I will know where my money is going. If you want to dance with the devil then be prepared for the aftermath. I feel all we have left is to vote these guys out and to choke the companies that fill their coffers. They ignore everything else we do. It's time to hit them in their pocketbooks. Remington staying in new York is a slap in the face to every New York gun owner and to everyone who is living in a similar situation. NY, CO, CT, NJ, etc can kiss my hard earned dollars good bye. They've drawn their line. I've drawn mine. I will do my best to run them out of office and then I'll find a gun friendly state to retire in. As I am writing this I am looking at the check I have to send to CT for my state taxes. That really pizzes me off. They betrayed us.
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Old April 10, 2013, 07:14 PM   #30
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We are now insisting that all gun and gun related companies leave all states that have imposed restrictive laws otherwise we boycott?
It's more then that . It's that right in the middle of this huge debate on our 2nd amendment rights . They go in to a closed door meeting with the government and come out with big fat wallets . I bet what was said in there was . Please don't make a fuss about what gun control laws we are implementing and we will give you this big contract . If the big dogs are not going to stand with us , were're in trouble . The only thing that would change my mind any time soon would be Remington coming out with a found that helps fight that states gun laws or someting to that effect . They better do something to get ahead of this or it will not be good for them . I already emailed them and told them How I feel .
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Old April 10, 2013, 07:23 PM   #31
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In spite of my earlier comments, you guys sure do make a lot of sense. While I wasn't plan to buy any Remington products in the near future as it is, I think this thread has caused them to slide even further from the top on my "gun companies to support" list.
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Old April 10, 2013, 07:37 PM   #32
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Was thinking of getting another 870 or 1100 in the future. Guess I'll be going with something else instead.
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Old April 10, 2013, 07:39 PM   #33
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If you do really want an 870 or 1100, but don't want to support the company, buy one used.
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Old April 10, 2013, 07:46 PM   #34
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Any company that is caught in the middle can help the causes with a check to the NRA-ILA that has a number with 6 zeros after it. This will help us with the causes in the other states that haven't fallen yet. They stayed because of money, let them help with the money given to them to stay. Hasn't several suppliers done this already? Was it Midway?
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Old April 10, 2013, 07:51 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryh1108
Any company that is caught in the middle can help the causes with a check to the NRA-ILA that has a number with 6 zeros after it. This will help us with the causes in the other states that haven't fallen yet. They stayed because of money, let them help with the money given to them to stay. Hasn't several suppliers done this already? Was it Midway?
Wouldn't that be a hoot?!?

Bravo for the suggestion!
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Old April 10, 2013, 09:47 PM   #36
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A different alternative...

Guns with the Remington name have been coming out of New York for almost 200 years. That alone is not something to throw away lightly.

Here's a different approach, carrot, not the stick....

Collect pledges to purchase a new Remington, IF they leave NY, with public statements that the reason is the new laws.

While it may be necessary to boycott eventually, I hate to see an old, respected firm punished for just trying to stay in business. This is something different than the S&W situation. In that case, the ownership voluntarily decided to accept a deal with devil.

These new laws are being forced on Remington along with eveyone else in the state. They should not be punished for not packing up and hauling ass as fast as they can, I don't consider that right. Encouraged, to move, as a political statement, sure, I'm for that.

As to taking a fat govt contract? Well, with one hand of the govt doing their best to kill your business, taking money from another part of the govt just seems like a survival tactic to me. And the bottom line, for any business is survive, and do your best to profit.

As indiviuals, we can stand on priciples and buy or not, as we choose. Businesses who stand on principles other than the bottom line have a much harder time of it, and often fail, unless well supported by their customer base.

I say give them the benefit of the doubt for now, at least...
If things change, re-evaluate...
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Old April 10, 2013, 10:47 PM   #37
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Quote:
it's not likely that they can relocate operations that easily
An operation the size of Remington, that would cost them millions. Not to mention the lost $80 million in the new contract. Losing that kind of money could conceivably bury a company like Remington.

Quote:
Maybe they'll think twice about who they vote for
It's a Union shop. They vote for the gun grabbers, regardless. They expect the Union to take care of them. You have to understand the Union mentality. They're not going to change the way they vote.
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Old April 11, 2013, 10:55 AM   #38
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Guns with the Remington name have been coming out of New York for almost 200 years. That alone is not something to throw away lightly.
Colt has been in Hartford for 150 years. But they're pulling up shop and moving to TX.
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Old April 11, 2013, 11:11 AM   #39
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It's one thing to stay in a state that has draconian gun laws. It's something else to stay in that state, after receiving a nice gov't contract, AND not saying anything negative about the laws.

I understand the difficulty in relocating. If Remington came out and said, "Hey, we're staying because, financially, it might be too great a burden for us to move. But, we will continue the fight against gun control, and to prove it, here's a $X,000,000 check for the NRA-ILA, SAF, or other pro gun lobby."

If they did that, I'd be fine with them staying, since it's about staying in business. But they walked into a closed meeting, and came out a bit richer, without a single word against gun control. Remington won't be getting another dime from me, unless they change their tune. Shame, I was looking at picking up my first bolt action rifle, and I was looking at a 700. Think I might look at a Ruger M77 instead.
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Old April 11, 2013, 11:36 AM   #40
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Ridge_Runner_5 Wrote:
Colt has been in Hartford for 150 years. But they're pulling up shop and moving to TX.
Not accurate. Colt Competition is an Oregon based company that is part of Bold Ideas Inc., which licenses Colt’s brand to make competition shooting rifles. They are the ones moving from to Texas, not Colt Manufacturing LLC.

Now, there has been rumor and some talk of Colt Mfg LLC leaving CT and some speculate that this is a sign of it starting to happen and Colt may follow. But, for right now, that is all it is, talk and speculation.
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Old April 11, 2013, 11:43 AM   #41
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Thank you for the clarification.
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Old April 11, 2013, 12:32 PM   #42
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I can't help but think that in every firearms related business in the country today there is somone(s) trying very hard to come up with an accuracte cost/benefit analysis of what is going on.

Move? on principle? for projected economic reasons? Good question. IF they both line up the same, the answer is easy. But if they don't? What then?

Cynically, I'd also keep my mouth shut going into a closed meeting, and take their money. And their contract, provided there was nothing like a gag order in the contract. I see no harm in that, myself. If they think its a carrot for me to follow their path in all things, that better be written into the contract I sign, otherwise....

You know, if its not written down, .....

Remington isn't getting much money from me for their guns these days, anyway. The one's I buy are long out of production. I am, however a steady consumer of their brass and ammo products, when I can find them now days....

Remington may be in league with the devil, and I can see the pitchforks waving and torches flickering, but shouldn't we learn a bit more, before we start shouting "burn the witch!"? Hmm?
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Old April 11, 2013, 12:38 PM   #43
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It is a sad state of affairs for us that Remington followed the path it did. I was hopeful that the purchase by Cerebus in 2007 would put money in their pockets, and we would gain as a result of the sale. The last new Remington I bought was a 673 Guide Rifle in 2004 and I like it just fine, but I will most likely not be buying a new Remington ever again due to this latest news. I'm in agreement with one of the previous posters who could live with their decision, had it been done honestly and openly and out of necessity.
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Old April 11, 2013, 01:43 PM   #44
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shouldn't we learn a bit more, before we start shouting "burn the witch
In all conscience, if we're going to boycott Remington for refusing to leave New York/California/Connecticut, then shouldn't we also boycott all gun companies who remain in any anti Constitution state?

And since we are bound to boycott any gun manufacturer located in such a state, as a matter of conscience are we not bound to boycott any gun manufacturer that imports guns into such a state?

And by extension, shouldn't we boycott all manufacturers, guns, outdoor equipment, ammo, ad infinitum, that do any business with anybody in these states?
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Old April 11, 2013, 02:06 PM   #45
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Remington takes the money from NY/Pentagon deal

I would give Remington a little time to respond. Remember this is the company that quickly cut Zumbo loose after he criticized the AR as not a sporting rifle.

It is disconcerting though that in the midst of the biggest gun grab in 20 years most of the major firearms companies are mum. It would help to see some big checks written. I like how companies like Midway trumpet their financial support to gun rights with no fear or apology.
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Old April 11, 2013, 02:32 PM   #46
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OK, let's make this easy. You are the CEO of Remington. You like your job and the neat stuff your salary and perks provide for your family and yourself.

Way up the food chain at Ceberus Capital Management the company has decided to sell off Freedom Group because a huge investor has threatened to take his money elsewhere after a rifle manufactured by Bushmaster was used to kill 26 kids and teachers in CT.

Quote:
Cerberus said it will seek to sell Freedom Group Inc. just hours after California Treasurer Bill Lockyer said he’ll propose that the state’s public pension funds, the two largest in the U.S., divest investments in firearm manufacturers that make guns prohibited under state law. The firm’s announcement followed a day in which the White House reiterated President Barack Obama’s support for a new ban on assault weapons and lawmakers called for stricter gun-control laws.

Cerberus made this statement:

Quote:
“This decision allows us to meet our obligations to the investors whose interests we are entrusted to protect without being drawn into the national debate” on gun control, Cerberus said in a statement issued just after midnight in New York.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...chool-massacre

Now, you, the CEO of Remington are going to jump on your sword and threaten to move the company out of CT: Yeah, right. Good luck finding another cushy job.
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Old April 11, 2013, 02:36 PM   #47
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I like how companies like Midway trumpet their financial support to gun rights with no fear or apology
Midway is a family owned company and can easily make such stands.

Remington is owned by a large investment group and must follow the directions of the trustees, all of whom must answer to stockholders. And stockholders are about the money, not philosophy.
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Old April 11, 2013, 02:58 PM   #48
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But they walked into a closed meeting, and came out a bit richer
This isn't entirely fair.

This contract that was awarded to Remington was announced in 2009. Remington has worked 3 or so years to provide their best product for trials in competition against Sako.

Between the performance testing, the offered deal and prices, and the other criteria like simply which company most likely possesses or has demonstrated in the past that it possesses the ability to best satisfy the contract, they were award the prize.

It's just not entirely fair to characterize this as a back room deal
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Old April 11, 2013, 03:08 PM   #49
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Guns with the Remington name have been coming out of New York for almost 200 years. That alone is not something to throw away lightly.
True,
however, the 2nd amendment has been around longer.
That shouldn't be taken lightly, either.
As a matter of fact, it should be taken with a lot more respect than a company that lives off of it.
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Old April 11, 2013, 03:09 PM   #50
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sorry i think i missed something... what did they do that was so bad...
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