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Old April 29, 2013, 08:42 AM   #1
amathis
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When Cultures Collide. Teaching a European how to shoot.

Yesterday, I had the awesome opportunity to teach a European how to shoot.

When she walked into my house yesterday afternoon, she saw a gun in pieces on my table that we were in the process of cleaning. Having come for visits several times, I was very caution with the introduction to firearms, putting any I was working on away before she arrived.

Well this time I didn't. It was time to introduce the European to guns.

She saw it on the table and asked timidly if it was real. We assured her that it was, and then she said that when she was in a different state she almost got to learn, but because of time she didn't get the chance.

We started her out on the .22 rifle. She did great! We set up old rotten eggs down range, and she picked them off. We moved her up to the AR and she loved that even more.

It was a great experience for both her and my family. I'm glad we had the opportunity to eliminate the mystery behind one of America's greatest pastimes.
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Old April 29, 2013, 10:18 AM   #2
NoSecondBest
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For a period of five years I worked for a large aftermarket automotive company that had a very large supplier base from all over the world. When they'd come over on business I had the opportunity to take a lot of them shooting. Most of them never shot a gun before. I'd take them sporting clays shooting and also some pistol shooting. They loved it! They really got a good impression of what firearms are about in America. No cowboys and indians, no gangsters, no mayhem on the streets (at least they didn't see any while they were here). It was different than what they were used to. Before me, they'd get to play golf or go sight-seeing. I don't golf so it was sporting clays. What I liked about it was my boss paying for it plus dinner afterwards. I made friends from all over the world and still stay in contact with them.
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Old April 29, 2013, 10:54 AM   #3
wogpotter
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I absolutely adore it when threads like this are posted, really.
A tip if I may though. Even though many "europeans" (whatever that actually is) are strangers to firearms, not all are & those that do shoot can be very competent.

When I came here I got this "Europeans know diddly about gunz" stuff so many times I decided to not argue the point any more. I'd shot pistol, shotgun & rifle for decades in "Europe" but it was automatically assumed I was an utter babe in the woods on the subject. Instead I took quite a lot of dollars from know it all shooters by allowing them to think I was a total stranger to guns, making a bet & then collecting when I won.

It helped that I lived in New York City too, because in places like Texas its assumed New Yorkers are just a GBH above "euros" in shooting skills.

I was on a horse farm when there was an ad hoc shooting contest going on, so I was asked to join in so they could take a few dollars off of the European. I joined in. I got the obligatory 5-minute safety lecture (don't look down the barrel to watch the boolitt come out!) & went to the firing line with a borrowed Colt SAA in.45. Being unfamiliar with the SA grip I did iffy. Some money changed hands, actually quite a lot, over $100, & this was 30 years ago!.

More money changed hands & the ignorant Euro guy got in on the action, betting on himself. I asked if I could try a different type of pistol as I wasn't comfortable with the grip on the SAA.
"Sure, buddy, what do you want to shoot"?

I pointed out a different looking pistol someone else had & got the "difference between a revolver & a semi-automatic" 5-minute tutorial.

To cut the tale short I racked the slide on the Browning P35 & double tapped the snot out of the targets, just the way I'd been taught to in the service, collected the cash & wandered off whistling merrily. When the guy got all preterbed about my sudden & drastic improvment, mentioning that I'd said I'd "never shot, or actually seen a gun like that before" I explained. I'd seen lots of guns & shot many of them. However that was the first actual Colt SAA I'd ever seen, I usually used either a P-35 (Browning High Power), or a Mauser-made P-38 in 9mm.
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Old April 29, 2013, 11:05 AM   #4
lcpiper
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When my Niece from Korea came to go to school here for a year I got to teach her how to shoot. It was an experience she would probably never have a chance to have in Korea and I hope one she will never forget.
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Old April 29, 2013, 11:12 AM   #5
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Last month I had 6 relatives from the UK visiting. Four of them wanted to go shooting with me. All of them had shot some form of firearms before, mostly .22lr and shotguns. One brother in law does civil war re-enactments in the UK, and had only fired blanks. They had a blast shooting an AR15 with a .450 upper, and various other rifles and pistols.
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Old April 29, 2013, 11:26 AM   #6
stephen426
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I took a couple of friends from Spain shooting and they loved it as well. They are utterly amazed that we can own weapons such as AR-15s. In Spain (not to mention a few communist Yankee states) you can't even carry a knife for self-defense. In Holland, you can't even defend yourself in your own home. That is absolutely insane in my opinion.
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Old April 29, 2013, 11:59 AM   #7
Glenn E. Meyer
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We've had Canadians, Japanese and Chinese (People's Republic) shoot with us. They usually enjoy it.
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Old April 29, 2013, 12:26 PM   #8
LED
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All good and well, except there isn't a European who somehow represents Europe at large. Why not say German or perhaps Ukrainian.
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Old April 29, 2013, 12:29 PM   #9
NoSecondBest
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I've had several Asians shoot and they never shot any kind of firearm before. I also had a South African come over (he stayed six months) and he shot very, very well with all types of firearms as well as with a bow. He grew up on a "farm" over there and carried a gun everywhere when he was young. He brought some friends back and they all could shoot. Some places in the world are "up to speed" shooting. Most places it's unheard of to shoot for pleasure.
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Old April 29, 2013, 01:35 PM   #10
amathis
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I did not mean to step on any toes by implying that no Europeans ever shoot. . . . .

My wife grew up in Germany, and the only folks there who shoot belong to hunting clubs. Gun ownership is quite low and many folks haven't seen a real one let alone a fired one. In my wife's high school class none of them had ever used a firearm except for her, and that was while back in the states on her uncles farm.

This woman is an exchange student from France. Living in a well populated portion of southern France, she had never had the chance.

My run ins with most Europeans is that gun ownership and shooting is hardly ever done especially for pleasure. The restrictions are too great. The idea of going out into the back yard and shooting a few hundred rounds was odd to our guest.

Anyhow, I didn't mean to insult. . . . .
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Old April 29, 2013, 01:59 PM   #11
manta49
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You will find that its more that in some Europeans countries most people have no interest in firearms and not that firearms are hard to get. When you say European that covers a lot of countries firearms laws and attitudes to firearms. Contrary to popular believe firearms are easy to get in the UK for instance, not as easy as America but not as difficult as some seem to think. There are plenty on gun clubs here for a small country but its still a minority sport.
A few examples bellow.

Northern Ireland Target Sports Association: NITSA



www.nitsa.org.uk/



Kells Rifle & Pistol Club - Home



www.kellsrpc.com/
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Old April 29, 2013, 02:17 PM   #12
LED
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No insult at all. I meant to say, there are vast differences within the continent. According to my French shooting buddy, France is comparable to NY or Massachusetts. In eastern Europe and the Balkans procuring weapons is easy because of their abundance and weak law enforcement. The British are neutered. In Finland marksmanship is a virtue. And everybody knows about the lucky Swiss. And so on. I was just curious, but it came out peevish.

oh and manta: you say firearms in UK, but not which firearms. No semiautos for you, am I wrong?
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Old April 29, 2013, 02:23 PM   #13
amathis
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I too am curious at your acquisition process. Care to share Manta?
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Old April 29, 2013, 02:27 PM   #14
manta49
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You have to apply for a firearms certificate a criminal record and mental health issues can go against you. PS Handguns are allowed in N Ireland AK/s and AR/s can be got single shot only. It is more hassle than America but fill in a form and you should have your certificate in a few weeks. Example of the number of firearms in N Ireland. Remember N Ireland has a population of around one and a half million and shooting as i said is a minority sport. PS Its not as bad as some Americans seem to think and are told on the media.

Quote. •In total, there are 153,459 legally held weapons owned by people living in Northern Ireland.
•Some of the licence holders with the largest gun holdings have paintball games among their licence conditions. This includes eight people who own between 150 and 175 firearms each. Their police districts are G and F in the west of Northern Ireland.
•Of the 59,585 licence holders we have detailed information on, 98% are male.
•The youngest gun owner is 17-years-old and the oldest is 103.
•A total of 2,924 licenses have ‘Personal Protection Weapon’ among the conditions of use. These holders include ex-PSNI, civilians and prison officers.

Last edited by manta49; April 29, 2013 at 02:54 PM.
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Old April 29, 2013, 03:46 PM   #15
LED
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Manta
Interesting stuff! Are you saying paintball is licensed?
No smart alecking by the way. I know some of the history of Northern Ireland. Different rules may well be necessary.
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Old April 29, 2013, 04:39 PM   #16
wogpotter
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Quote:
I did not mean to step on any toes by implying that no Europeans ever shoot. . . . .
Don't worrry, you didn't.

Its hard trying to explain the differences between "Europe", & "America" to someone who'se only experienced one of the locales. I travelled a great deal for work in Europe & Americans that haven't been to Europe seem fascinated that I could travel to 4 countries working in each of them in a week! So "romantic" & so on. I explain it like this: Think of European countries in much the way you think of states here in the U.S (notice for the first time I said "the U.S.", not America, which to many Europeans is Canada, the United States, & Central America). I travelled from England, to France & then to Holland Via Belgium & back. Its about the same as travelling from Pennsylvania through Delaware, crossing the bay bridge to Maryland & then coming back through Virginia.

It works the other way round as well. I had a couple of English friends who were planning on flying to "America", renting a car & driving from New York to California & back in a week! That's a hell of a vacation!
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Old April 29, 2013, 05:31 PM   #17
lcpiper
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Manta49, my question would be are paintball guns considered firearms in N. Ireland?
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Old April 30, 2013, 11:33 AM   #18
LED
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Wodpotter
Only now spotted your tale of the range.
As someone who also sounds "you're peen'" I too have received some extra advice. When I was joining a local club, the ol boy in charge ordered me to "show safe". Never mind that I had just done so in front of him, right as I was saying hello. He was distracted.
I take it in good humor. I know people mean well. Besides, I owe my favorite pastime to their law and tradition.
So I bought a tweed cap just for range practice. It is a little too funny to wear casually, but it helps me look nerdy and get some good chuckle. Never went as far as betting money, but given a chance I'll bring the cap!

Last edited by LED; April 30, 2013 at 11:49 AM.
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Old April 30, 2013, 01:42 PM   #19
manta49
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As a legacy of N Ireland's history almost anything that shoots anything is classed as a firearm. For example a air rifle is classed as a firearm and a certificate is required. In the rest of the UK its not classed as a firearm and you just have to be over 17 to buy one.

What is classed as a firearm in N Ireland bellow.

Quote. What is a Firearm?
The term ‘firearm’ is defined as a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged and includes any:

Prohibited weapon, whether it is such a lethal weapon or not.
Component part of such a lethal or prohibited weapon.
Accessory to any such weapon designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash caused by firing the weapon.
‘Component Part’ in relation to a firearm means –

Barrel, chamber or cylinder.
Frame, action, body or receiver.
Breech block, bolt or other mechanism for containing the pressure of discharge at the rear of the chamber.
Part of a firearm which directly bears the pressure caused by firing.
Magazine.
In Northern Ireland airguns and CO2 guns having a discharge kinetic energy in excess of one (1) Joule (0.737 ft lbs) require to be held on a Firearm Certificate.

PS Sound moderators are allowed for rifles not handguns.

Last edited by manta49; April 30, 2013 at 02:33 PM.
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Old April 30, 2013, 01:48 PM   #20
LED
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Fair enough. What about knives? Here in a Midwest state one can carry a hand cannon (well legally) but absutely no switchblades, concealed or not.
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Old April 30, 2013, 01:57 PM   #21
manta49
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It will seem stick to Americans but is similar the a lot of countries.

Quote. It's illegal for a shop to sell any kind of knife to someone under 18.

It's also illegal for shops to sell imitation guns or air weapons to anyone under 18-years-old, or to sell realistic imitation guns to anyone.

You'll be committing an offence if you buy any of these items. Possessing a knife or firearm (whether it's yours or not) is illegal and can result in a prison sentence.

Some knives are illegal for even adults to buy. The below are all categorised as offensive weapons and are completely banned:
•Flick knives - also called ‘switchblades’ or ‘automatic knives’.
•Butterfly knives
•Disguised knives - in which the blade is hidden in something like a belt buckle or fake mobile phone.

You can find out more about these and other types of illegal knives on the DirectGov website.

Things to know


•It is illegal to carry a knife or a gun, even an imitation one.
•If you are caught with a knife or a gun, regardless of whether you say it was for your own protection or you were carrying it for someone else, you will be arrested and prosecuted.
•Possession of a knife can carry a prison sentence of up to 4 years even if it's not used.
•There's a minimum 5-year sentence for carrying a gun if you're over 18. If you're under 18, you could still go to prison.
•If you stab somebody and they die, you will face a life sentence and will serve a minimum prison sentence of 25 years.
•Causing the death of someone with a gun carries a life sentence and you will serve a mandatory 30-year prison sentence.
•If someone is injured or killed by a knife or gun in your presence, even if you're not the one using the weapon, you too could be prosecuted. You could be sent to prison for murder in what is referred to as ‘joint enterprise’.

Remember - the law is clear - if you choose to carry a weapon, you put your future in danger. If you don't take it with you, it won't be used.
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Old April 30, 2013, 03:11 PM   #22
amathis
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Are there any exceptions given for self defense Manta?

Also the knife clause, does that apply to all knives or just knives over a certain length?
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Old April 30, 2013, 03:20 PM   #23
wogpotter
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I just play dumb & ask questions like "Is this the pointy end where the cartridge comes out"?
(I usually get a better odds if cash money is involved that way)
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Old April 30, 2013, 04:21 PM   #24
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Quote:
I had a couple of English friends who were planning on flying to "America", renting a car & driving from New York to California & back in a week! That's a hell of a vacation!
Vacation, my foot!
That's one helluva fast car!

BP
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Old April 30, 2013, 05:01 PM   #25
LED
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I bet this is the main reason why there are no "firms" in American professional sports. British football hooligans look forward to engage their opponents with clubs and pipes. Fully expecting to get shot and killed in self defense would take all the fun out.
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