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Old March 26, 2013, 10:19 AM   #1
jrothWA
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Open Carry concerns???

Last Saturday evening was at walmart, selecting a check-out noticed that a group of camo-clad individuals were in line and they were open carry sidearms.

What concern me was the "nonchalance / chavaler" attitude and lack of visible restraints on the holsters being used. [Did not recognize the holster maker.]

My concern was the lack of situation awareness and lack of good judgement and to maintaining any modicum of protecting the sidearms.

The camo and "bling" ornaments did not present a "charming" picture.

PS; I was CPLing that night, too.

Last edited by jrothWA; March 26, 2013 at 10:20 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old March 26, 2013, 10:32 AM   #2
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The first rule of fighting with tools is "don't show anyone your [insert weapon] until you're using it."
I think that the word "pistol" fits into that blank.
If people are planning bad and you look like you are the one guy who can push back, you're either going to scare them off, or be the first nail hammered down.
Do what you want.
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Old March 26, 2013, 10:53 AM   #3
shouldazagged
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Where I live the only people other than LEO's and LGS employees, and people hunting or fishing or working on their own land, whom I see carrying openly are almost always people trying to make an impression and/or a statment: "I can, so I will, and if you don't like it--well, that's just too damn bad."

I'm never impressed, at least not favorably. I think the swaggering type--and the ones you describe sound like real Wally World commandos trying to prove how tough they are--reflect badly on those of us who treasure our Second Amendment rights. In today's overheated climate, that kind of immature judgment is not going to win us any friends or do anything to educate people who fear guns and gun owners..

Louisville is a good-sized city, the 16th largest in the U.S. Open carry has been legal in Kentucky for a very long time, while concealed carry only became legal around sixteen years ago. I could legally hang my pet Model 10 on my belt and go all kinds of places. I could also legally go out in a cocktail dress and a string of pearls, and I'm a straight 75-year-old man with a full white beard. Either decision would attract various kinds of attention I neither need nor want.

I feel no need to carry a weapon openly. I've carried concealed daily for over fifteen years and am content. Low profile is my preference. That's not anyone infringing my rights, it's my choice.

But if I were to carry openly, you can damn well bet I'd wear a holster that securely retained the weapon!
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Old March 26, 2013, 03:19 PM   #4
Archie
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Just a tangential thought...

I carry concealed; it is simply more 'convenient' in a number of ways. (And I am legally able to do so, just for the tally book.)

However, were I to carry openly, I would observe some guidelines.

First, I would make every attempt to look 'competent'. My clothing would be clean - at least when I left the house that day. My clothing would more or less fit me properly. The belt and holster would be clean, in proper order, matching, fit me properly and in general not look like I dug it from the bargain barrel at the thrift store. And yes, the holster would probably have a visible retention device. It seems to comfort the already befuddled.

Second, I would make every attempt to look 'normal'. No 'tough guy' clothing, hair combed, shaven - or if bearded, a trimmed and neat beard - looking like I'm engaged with the world and not seeking trouble. Tip my hat to ladies, look people in the face and present a friendly greeting of the day in the normal manner and so forth. Remove sunglasses indoors. (Remove ski-mask, too!)

In short, I would - and urge others - to not look like a problem about to happen. There are enough folks in the country already who aren't sure about gun owners. Public Relations is a serious and full time obligation for 'us'.
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Old March 26, 2013, 03:34 PM   #5
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i live in sc and have a permit here, ct and fl. sc is conceal carry, ct--who the hell knows????you can get screwed even though the law is ambiguous (oc--ok). fl permit allows me to carry in ga-which is an open carry state.

i choose to keep very low key, no gun tee shirts, stickers on cars and i don't tell anyone about what i got or what i may or may not be carrying--so no open carry for me.

i recently attended the st. pat's day parade in savannah. the cops stated that concealed carry w/permit in the party area was forbidden for the event. oc wasn't addressed--and i saw a guy open carry his glock with about 400k drunks around--no one bothered him.
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Old March 26, 2013, 04:04 PM   #6
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I dont like attention and I always try to blend in as much as possible. I dont wear bright colors, Im very quiet, and when I go to a store I get what I came for and leave quickly. I dont have anything against people that open carry but its not for me. I dont want to make myself a target or draw attention to myself but I am always ready to defend myself and loved ones. I feel that the more tools you have at your disposal, the better chance you have at making it out of a bad situation. The element of surprise is a very valuable tool.
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Old March 26, 2013, 04:04 PM   #7
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Is your state an open carry state? If so, I don't understand your concern about a ''group'' of guys in a WalMart with guns.
Not everyone that carries a gun, open or concealed is competent, well mannered or, ''wears proper attire''.
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Old March 26, 2013, 04:13 PM   #8
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Its not generally legal in Texas to OC short guns (it used to legal for onlg guns, not certain). However, in country and nearer to the border, OC is generally a nonissue. Thats where I'd have it or how I'd be dressed.
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Old March 26, 2013, 04:35 PM   #9
Wreck-n-Crew
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Though i like the conceal carry for a number of reasons i have nothing against open carry.

The tricky thing is (if nothing has changed here and several police have been dead on in Ohio) though there is no law against open carry, there is a law against inciting panic.

This law was written by lawmakers to get around the second amendment. Just the same way the law (not any more) against concealed carry.The two combined made honest people go out in public unarmed.

Some people believe that by having a large enough of open carry people, it has a positive impact on crimes. How many people would attempt to rob someone or some business if they see all of these guns on people.

Some people would like to see more open carry to simply desensitize people from the lack of guns in public and that it would also send a message to the people in Washington that they are here to stay and better to have more sensible people with firearms than criminals who use them for evil.

Like i said, it's not for me, but i have no complaints about people exercising their rights.
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Old March 26, 2013, 05:01 PM   #10
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My biggest concern with open carry is the lack of knowledge of many people (most "civilians" and many LEOs) regarding those particular laws. I have 2 friends that are cops and a few aquaintances in law enforcement that had no idea open carry was even an option for the general public until I brought the subject up with them. Not saying anyone is stupid or ignorant for not knowing the laws (all depends on what they were trained in the case of LEOs), but to me it just seems to invite unnecessary attention and hassle from those that don't know. I'd rather continue to carry concealed with no-one any the wiser vs. sitting on a curb handcuffed while the hotshot straight from the academy radios his supervisor who then calls the chief, etc...
My .02
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Old March 26, 2013, 05:04 PM   #11
balderclev
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I dislike the idea of open carry. It's a distraction and can cause panic. I think concealed carry is a better idea all around
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Old March 26, 2013, 07:14 PM   #12
Spats McGee
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I have no personal objection to OC, but it's unlikely I would OC, even in a jurisdiction where same is legal. Should I ever need my pistol, I want it to be a surprise!
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Old March 26, 2013, 07:36 PM   #13
shouldazagged
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"In short, I would - and urge others - to not look like a problem about to happen. There are enough folks in the country already who aren't sure about gun owners. Public Relations is a serious and full time obligation for 'us'."

Well put! And thoroughly realistic.
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Old March 26, 2013, 07:40 PM   #14
Garycw
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Open Carry concerns???

Only time I open carried was on the job and even then carried concealed back up. I now ALWAYS carry concealed unless I'm on the farm or in the woods


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Old March 26, 2013, 08:32 PM   #15
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I've seen plenty of open carry here in WI now that CC is legal, somewhat ironic, now apparently people want to open carry. Several it was clear from the maturity level or attitude it was more of an "i'm cool and tough look at my gun" statement rather then anything else. last one I think was a long 7" Ruger SBH or some such nonsense in a drop holster... LOL REALLY?!

Honestly i don't sweat it if something happens it happens, they are probably more dangerous to themselves then to others.
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Old March 26, 2013, 09:28 PM   #16
egor20
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Even though its legal I open carry only on my own property, as soon as I get in my truck, I'm wearing a jacket or long shirt. I see some open carry around here but not that much and nobody (except maybe tourists) make a big deal about it.
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Old March 26, 2013, 10:21 PM   #17
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I prefer concealed carry

I prefer concealed carry... I live in South Carolina and I have heard some rumblings that the SC State Legislature is considering allowing open carry without any required training. The concealed carry permit now requires training and shooting proficiency along with a background check. As I said earlier I prefer concealed carry. I do not flaunt or brag about my concealed weapon. I want no one to know that I have a concealed weapon on me. If needed I want to surprise the threat to my life that I just shot him to prevent him from harming my family and/or our lives.

If they do pass open carry in South Carolina I hope they will allow the concealed carry permits to continue.

Lemmon from Rural South Carolina.....Happy Easter.
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Old March 26, 2013, 11:39 PM   #18
Hiker 1
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Unfortunately not every gun owner is a good ambassador for the rest of us.

Camo'd up and obnoxious does not help the cause.
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Old March 27, 2013, 12:28 AM   #19
JimmyR
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RE: OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrothWA
Last Saturday evening was at walmart, selecting a check-out noticed that a group of camo-clad individuals...
What game is in season? Could these gentleman have been coming in from hunting? Your location would help us understand if wearing camo in the evening on a Saturday is normal (such as the rural Alabama I grew up in) or not (such as downtown Louisville, KY)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrothWA
were in line and they were open carry sidearms.

What concern me was the "nonchalance / chavaler" attitude
When I OC, I don't wear a sandwich board. I don't scream out "I'm wearing a weapon!" any more than you do while CCing. Nonchalance is not a bad thing. I would also love to know what they were doing- aside from open carrying- that made them appear to be Cavalier-esque.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrothWA
and lack of visible restraints on the holsters being used. [Did not recognize the holster maker.]
Passive restraints on a holster can perform quite admirably. Again, not knowing the holster, I'm hearing accusations without a lot of substance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrothWA
My concern was the lack of situation awareness and lack of good judgement and to maintaining any modicum of protecting the sidearms.

The camo and "bling" ornaments did not present a "charming" picture.
Just wondering, how did we get from "standing in line at Wal-Mart" to "lack of situation awareness" and "lack of good judgement"? When did you develop ESP? You stated you don't know how much retention the holster provided, because you don't know what holster they were using.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrothWA
PS; I was CPLing that night, too.
From what I am seeing, most of the concerns you voiced were allegations based on bias. You have thus far provided nothing against these gentlemen except that they open carried, (which I can only assume is legal, or I bet you would have made that your first point) and wore camo.

And.....?

Let them carry in whatever way is legal and fits their preferences and experience, and don't make assumptions about people because of their choice, which, from the tone and word choice of your post, appears to have already been done.

Full diclosure: I split my carry between OC/CC about 30/70, depending on my location, dress, and gun choice. I find OC to be much more comfortable, and makes my weapon easier to retrieve. I have also found that many folks ask questions, some commend my carrying, and others never even notice it.
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Old March 27, 2013, 12:38 AM   #20
rajbcpa
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Some larger guns are not suitable for concealed carry.

I believe OC is a wonderful option and it does not cause panic.

Concealed carry is sneaky. If you are carrying a gun, why do you need to hide it while you are in public?
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Old March 27, 2013, 12:47 AM   #21
JimmyR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajbcpa
Some larger guns are not suitable for concealed carry.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajbcpa
I believe OC is a wonderful option and it often does not cause panic.
FTFY

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajbcpa
Concealed carry is sneaky. If you are carrying a gun, why do you need to hide it while you are in public?
Let's be honest, CC has some tactical advantages, especially when carrying around people who are not as gun friendly as others. Both styles of carry have their place for different people.

Can we please not bash people for carrying a weapon legally and safely? If they are doing something boneheaded (carrying a 1911 cocked, safety off, round chambered, in their pants with no holster aimed at their junk, for example), then let's educate and correct. Otherwise, leave them alone. Please.
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Old March 27, 2013, 01:00 AM   #22
MarkDozier
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I live in WA. We are an open carry state. Sometimes I do. sometimes I don't. It has not affect my awarenesss either way I carry.
If the OP noticed open carry at Walmart he is more observant than 95% of the people at the store. other then that he is just someone complaining becuase poeple know and understand the law and they do what he does not want or like to do.

Last edited by Frank Ettin; March 27, 2013 at 08:38 AM. Reason: delete insult
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Old March 27, 2013, 01:55 PM   #23
southjk
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Quote:
I dislike the idea of open carry. It's a distraction and can cause panic. I think concealed carry is a better idea all around
That's the thing. It shouldn't be a distraction or cause panic. If more people open carried then others would get used to it and it wouldn't be a big deal. We want people to understand that every time you see a gun doesn't mean some one is about to get shot or robbed.

So, I think all of you should open carry as much as possible. I'm still going to conceal mine for all the reasons stated above, but you all should open carry.
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Old March 27, 2013, 02:41 PM   #24
thump_rrr
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We cannot carry in Canada period.
It is however legal for me to carry either openly or concealed in Vermont without a permit.
I have not yet done so but if I chose to in the future it will be concealed.

I believe that open carry may leave you at a tactical disadvantage in some instances.

By carrying concealed you do not become the person to be taken out.

I at the same time have no objections to those who want to open carry.
it is their right to do so and I am not in a position to be telling others what to do.
At the same time I can tell you that in the hundreds of times I've been to Vermont I do not remember anyone open carrying.

At the same time why does it matter if they were wearing cammo, plaid, or even a pinstripe suit?
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Old March 27, 2013, 02:48 PM   #25
Skadoosh
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Quote:
That's the thing. It shouldn't be a distraction or cause panic. If more people open carried then others would get used to it and it wouldn't be a big deal.
The problem is that "other" wont get used to it. I dont see the general public ever becoming desensitized to the sight of OC. Its not a common thing to see and I seriously doubt it will be in the foreseeable future. I am a vehement 2nd Amendment supporter, but I will likely never OC in a public setting with large crowds.

Here in VA, OC is legal, but it is still not a very common sight. And each time I see it, most OC'ers are using non-retention holsters, which just reenforces my personal dislike of OC. Especially when I see knuckleheads standing around in stores with both hands otherwise occupied. There have been a few occasions where I stood right behind a person who was OC'ing. Each of those times, I was disgusted at how easy it would have been for me to have disarmed them...simply because they had poor situational awareness and didn't notice or care of who was in their proximity.
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