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Old May 2, 2013, 08:31 AM   #1
Alabama Shooter
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Surprise Active Shooter Training

Does anyone else think this is a horrible idea? In my home state teachers are allowed to carry if they have a permit. I am certain that some of them do. I could see this ending in tragedy.

Quote:
Teachers attending a meeting at a small school in rural Oregon last Friday were shocked when two masked men wearing hoodies burst into the conference room and pretended to open fire.

The surprise shooting drill at Pine Eagle Charter School in Halfway was designed to test the school's preparation for an assault by "active shooters," The Oregonian reported.

Principal Cammie DeCastro told the paper there was "some commotion" when the shooters, who were actually members of the school's staff, entered the meeting room and began shooting.

Students were at home for a faculty training day, according to the report.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/02...#ixzz2S8rDq8Zp

More at link.
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Old May 2, 2013, 08:34 AM   #2
ChaseReynolds
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I think that it could end badly if the teachers are carrying and don't know that it is a drill. Otherwise training like that can be helpful, IMO.
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Old May 2, 2013, 09:37 AM   #3
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Besides the caveat given by ChaseReynolds above, I feel that as long as the school has actually trained its faculty on how to react if there is an active shooter, the drill would be beneficial. If no one's ever specified what to do for a fire drill, having a fake fire drill would be equally useless.

The quote below makes me believe that no one has actually thought up a site-specific action plan in case of an AS scenario.

Quote:
School staff had received training from the Union County Sheriff's Office on active shooting scenarios, but many educators were caught by surprise and unprepared to handle the situation, according to The Oregonian.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/02...#ixzz2S96qATvU
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Old May 2, 2013, 09:43 AM   #4
kilimanjaro
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OK, they shocked all the teachers, now where was the training?
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Old May 2, 2013, 09:55 AM   #5
Glenn E. Meyer
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Insanely stupid idea - while unarmed (no guns), that doesn't mean that some don't have training or other tools. I've seen quite a few significant knives in pockets on some teachers. Not hard to imagine something bad.

Or even folks with OC spray.

Dumb.
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Old May 2, 2013, 10:49 AM   #6
serf 'rett
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NUTS!

Makes me wonder what type of "training" the teachers had received, given there is no mention of harm befalling the attackers. I’m particularly surprised the school’s insurance company would allow them to perform this stunt, considering someone could easily been hurt.

I often work late at the office. I have warned my coworkers to always announce their presence when they enter the building through the front door, which is out of view, and tried to impress on them the announcement is for their safety more than mine.
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Old May 2, 2013, 02:17 PM   #7
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If they want to train the teachers, then they need to have a student holiday and run some simunitions exercises. It would be great to include the teachers and administrators who won't carry just to show them how far away police help can be in the event that such attack occurred... And to show how well the "protective" measures that they have in place actually (don't) work at stopping a determined attacker.
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Old May 2, 2013, 02:43 PM   #8
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Sounds like intentional infliction of emotional distress to me. Best the taxpayers go ahead and get their checkbooks out now...

Everyone who was part of that or approved this exercise should be immediately and very publicly be fired. I'm surprised the Teacher's Union isn't freaking (assuming it isn't).

As a poster noted above, if you're going to play this game. Have a day with real training and scenarios then. There's a reason firedrills are announced before hand.

And what happens if there was a spouse who was a cop there or happened to be going by and heard screaming? How many of these actors would end up bleeding to death?
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Old May 2, 2013, 07:40 PM   #9
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Does Oregon allow CCW on school campuses? That could have been a disaster.
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Old May 2, 2013, 07:40 PM   #10
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I've got to ask...

Two armed people burst into a conference room full of unarmed teachers and open fire...exactly what are they being trained to do? Scream? Die with dignity?

I've taken a good bit of training including unarmed response to an active shooter. You either exit (if safe to do so) which would seem almost impossible to do when in an open space like a conference room. Or you barricade in a safe area which doesn't apply to this venue. Or you fight for your life with every weapon you can find or improvise. If they had done the latter there would probably be someone in the hospital right now. So I ask..what are they trying to train them to do? Typical government bureaucratic bullcrap!
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Old May 2, 2013, 07:51 PM   #11
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Wonder how many will claim mental distress disorders now, not to mention someone could have had a heart attack.

Just plain stupid IMO.

If you want to train them, do it and then run exercises with everyone aware of what is going on....crawl-walk-run.
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Old May 2, 2013, 07:59 PM   #12
Bill DeShivs
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You know, a lot of people now carry guns in "gun free zones."
If you ever need a gun there, who gives a flying crap if you break the law? At least you and probably many others would be alive! Running a "training excercise" around several people I know would turn out very badly!
I'm not advocating breaking any laws. We are all adults and can make our own decisions.
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Old May 2, 2013, 09:30 PM   #13
treg
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Quote:
If they want to train the teachers, then they need to have a student holiday and run some simunitions exercises. It would be great to include the teachers and administrators who won't carry just to show them how far away police help can be in the event that such attack occurred... And to show how well the "protective" measures that they have in place actually (don't) work at stopping a determined attacker.
^ this ^

Teachers aren't stupid, just uneducated.
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Old May 2, 2013, 10:20 PM   #14
raimius
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They are lucky the teachers weren't prepared!

This is one of the few cases where failing the exam leads to a better outcome! If they were ready, there might have been some nasty stab wounds or blunt trauma.
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Old May 3, 2013, 07:35 AM   #15
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Massad Ayoob...

There is a great video on www.youtube.com of well known instructor & legal use of force expert Massad Ayoob talking about a training seminar he went to where a large group of highly trained armed professionals(PSCs, intel officers, spec ops, SWAT/ESU, EP agents, etc) had a final training phase to complete.
Only Ayoob & a well known criminal justice industry expert/psychologist "passed" the seminar test.
Some of the working cops, special operations unit members, corrections officers, federal LE agents and instructors reacted so badly they had to seek out mental health treatment!

CF

PS: I put up a message about Safariland Training Group's Armed Intruder course(in MA & Florida). Safariland is a highly respected firearms industry leader and the training staff are all well versed in tactics/use of force.
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Old May 3, 2013, 08:17 AM   #16
Alabama Shooter
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Quote:
Does Oregon allow CCW on school campuses? That could have been a disaster.
No, but it has been debated a bit up there lately. Just because it is prohibited does not mean that everyone is following the law.
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Old May 3, 2013, 08:40 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabama Shooter
No, but it has been debated a bit up there lately. Just because it is prohibited does not mean that everyone is following the law.
THIS.

Nothing good could possibly result from a 'surprise' active shooter 'training' scenario.
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Old May 4, 2013, 05:20 PM   #18
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I am surprised no one else noticed this or maybe I missed it, but the article says several teachers received "direct hits." If they weren't wearing safety glasses this was very stupid and if they were I don't know how it could have been a total surprise. I don't know of any training munitions that are safe without glasses. Even airsoft requires use.
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Old May 4, 2013, 10:33 PM   #19
Alabama Shooter
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I saw that but was not sure what it meant. If they were using anything that expelled a projectile that was even more stupid.
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Old May 7, 2013, 09:22 AM   #20
southjk
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What I read said that they were using blanks so I don't know how they determined that there were direct hits.
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Old May 7, 2013, 09:32 AM   #21
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I think it could open the school system up for a law suit.

You get a few teachers claiming they have PTSD from the incident and a couple Dr.'s to back that claim up and they could possibly have a lawsuit...or have an insurance co. settle the claim with check.

Unless of course they where all properly notified that a drill was possible.

Fire drills and somthing like this are totally different IMO.
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Old May 10, 2013, 01:14 AM   #22
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One of the stupidest ideas I’ve ever heard.

1. Teachers could have been hurt taking cover.
2. Teachers could have been hurt trying to escape, like diving out a closed window.
3. Teachers could have hurt the intruders by tackling them, throwing things like chairs, books or even amped up on adrenaline, a whole desk, a computer monitor etc.
4. Damage to school property,
5. The knowledge that IN THE FUTURE it won’t REALLY be an intruder it will just be another test.
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Old May 13, 2013, 08:42 PM   #23
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I liken it to the night an idiot pulled a toy gun on me. I saw it and asked the store owner if he knew the guy. The guy started the draw before I got answer.
My gun would have gone off if my trigger had been on the trigger as I drew as the owner caugth my arm screaming 'It's s toy!".
I had only slowed my draw to let him clear leather, or it would have already been over.
That one shook me up much, much more than situations I've been in with real shooters.
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