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Old April 8, 2013, 01:39 PM   #1
boxjeff
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Gun Shipping nightmare - Help?

I just sold two pistols on gunbroke, my first gun sale, and I can't seem to figure out how to ship the things..Ugh.

My local FFL wants $50 for each pistol and ammo . Considering I sold the items for a total of $350 this would make the sale pointless. I keep coming up against obstacles with shipping...UPS can only be sent from one of their main hubs and that is really far from me, guns can only be shipped from FFL to FFL, I am not permitted to send any of this through US Postal and ammo is simply illegal for me to ship. This is what I am being told. I live in PA and need to ship to ID...is this all true?
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Old April 8, 2013, 01:52 PM   #2
Cyberbach
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Yes, it's true but it sounds like you're gett'n jobbed on the charge from the FFL dealer. We ship for people and receive outside sales for 25 per transaction but it's open commerce and evidently your FFL guy wants to make more than we do.... bummer. Have you contacted the buyer and tried to split the shipping?
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Old April 8, 2013, 01:53 PM   #3
boxjeff
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Yes, but we were thinking $35 and not a price for each gun...ugh
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Old April 8, 2013, 01:57 PM   #4
amd6547
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You can ship the ammo yourself...
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Old April 8, 2013, 01:59 PM   #5
WC145
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This is definitely one of those things you need to check on before selling guns online. It is also why I put an amount in the ad for shipping that gets added to the winning bid when I sell a gun that way, it's too expensive for me to eat the cost.

You can ship ammo, it has to be shipped by ground - UPS or FedEx - and the box has to be marked, check the UPS site for info.

You can ship handguns yourself to a FFL that will accept guns from individuals but it has to be through UPS or FedEx and by their rules.

An FFL can ship handguns through the post office and can use prioroity mail, which saves them money. If it is too costly for you to do UPS or FedEx, you may want to check with other dealers to see what they can do for you.
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Old April 8, 2013, 02:00 PM   #6
RedBowTies88
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Where in NJ are you? You should be able to ship 2nd day air with UPS. you just need to go to the hub and not one of the stores. Is it really that far?
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Old April 8, 2013, 02:08 PM   #7
Carmady
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I just checked into this stuff a few weeks ago. Here's what I found.

Non-FFL holders have TWO options to ship a handgun, and the gun has to go to someone with a FFL.

FedEx: call 1-800-463-3339 for details

UPS, from a hub or "customer center."
Overnight or 2nd day, and it'll cost $130-$150. That's what the UPS CS rep told me on the phone.

USPS won't mess with it if you don't have a FFL.

As someone already said, it's a good idea to get your shipping plan set before you sell.

Last edited by Carmady; April 9, 2013 at 09:49 AM.
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Old April 8, 2013, 02:18 PM   #8
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
...I keep coming up against obstacles with shipping...UPS can only be sent from one of their main hubs and that is really far from me, guns can only be shipped from FFL to FFL, I am not permitted to send any of this through US Postal and ammo is simply illegal for me to ship...
  1. You may not ship a handgun using the United States Mail. Here are the applicable USPS regulations, but basically only an FFL (or certain other "official" persons) may ship a handgun by U. S. Mail.

  2. Here are the applicable FedEx rules for firearms:
    Quote:
    Firearms

    1. FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:

      1. Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or

      2. Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).

    2. If your shipment contains firearms, select the Direct Signature Required or Adult Signature Required Delivery Signature Option, depending on the requirements of your shipment. See the Delivery Signature Options section for details. Firearms shipments are not eligible for signature release or indirect delivery.

    3. Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx Express cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box.

    4. Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx Express is required to notify FedEx Express that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm.

    5. The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.

    6. The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.

    7. FedEx Express will transport ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Dangerous Goods section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as dangerous goods. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.
  3. Here are the applicable UPS rules for firearms:
    Quote:
    3.6 Firearms and Ammunition

    UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) only (a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies; and (b) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state, or local law from (i) an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual. The shipper shall comply with and shall ensure that each shipment containing firearms complies with all federal, state, and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient, and package.

    –The shipper must use Delivery Confirmation Adult Signature Required service for each package containing a firearm (including handguns). UPS, in its sole discretion, may require the shipper to select a UPS Next Day Air® Service for any package containing a firearm. Handguns (as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921) will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air Services.

    –Firearms (including handguns) are not accepted for transportation via UPS Drop Boxes or UPS Internet Shipping, in response to a request for UPS On-Call Pickup® service, or when presented for shipment at any Third-Party Retailer. UPS Returns® Services are not available for packages containing firearms.

    –Small arms ammunition, as defined in 49 C.F.R. § 173.59, will be transported only when packaged and labeled in compliance with 49 C.F.R. § 172 (Hazardous Materials). Ammunition may not be shipped in the same package as a firearm.

    –Firearm parts, which do not constitute firearms as defined under federal law (including without limitation Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code), and which otherwise comply with federal, state, and local law, will be accepted for transportation.

    –Firearms (including handguns) and firearm parts are not accepted for shipment internationally. See www.ups.com/content/us/en/resource /ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html or contact UPS for more information...
  4. You may not ship ammunition by U. S. Mail, but you may by UPS or FedEx subject to their rules. You have the resources now to figure out how to do that.

  5. You may personally ship a handgun for transfer to an FFL using UPS or FedEx legally, but some FFLs will not accept a gun from transfer from a non-licensee. The details will need to be worked out with the transfer FFL ahead of time.
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Old April 8, 2013, 02:19 PM   #9
Tom Servo
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Quote:
My local FFL wants $50 for each pistol and ammo .
Depending on the carrier used, the insurance, and his labor, that's not entirely out of bounds.

Quote:
.UPS can only be sent from one of their main hubs and that is really far from me
That is true, and even at some hubs, an individual may run into resistance from employees.

Quote:
guns can only be shipped from FFL to FFL
Not true, but check with the receiving FFL to ensure they'll receive the guns from an individual. Not all will.

Quote:
I am not permitted to send any of this through US Postal
That is true, though FFL's can.

Quote:
ammo is simply illegal for me to ship.
Untrue. UPS just wants it to be labelled and securely packaged.
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Old April 8, 2013, 02:23 PM   #10
Salmoneye
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Forgive me, but as a buyer, I have always paid shipping...

I figure that into the 'cost' when bidding...
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Old April 8, 2013, 02:55 PM   #11
donato
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Good point "Salmoneye".

I have always had good experiences with FedEx.

Also, look for a different FFl holder in the area.
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Old April 8, 2013, 03:19 PM   #12
James K
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I consider $50 per gun excessive UNLESS the FFL dealer is going to do all the wrapping and insuring as well as transport to the Post Office, and that includes the shipping cost.

This may perhaps to be a question of relations with the dealer. There is no requirement that a dealer ship for you or accept a shipment for you. He is doing you a favor by doing so, and he is right to charge a fee. If you have dealt with that dealer in the past, and have good relations with them, the fee might be lower. But a dealer might (not unnaturally) resent someone he has never seen before coming in and demanding that he handle shipping for a gun. The dealer might not say no, but he may feel inclined to make up in part for the sale he missed, especially on a new modern gun.

One way to reduce costs, if your FFL will go along, is for you to prepare all the shipping materials, box, padding, labels, take it in so he can verify the serial numbers, then pack and seal it up at his store. That way, he has only to take it to the P.O.

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Old April 8, 2013, 05:23 PM   #13
boxjeff
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UGh!

Got it don't with UPS. I think the GOVs objective here is to make everything difficult when dealing with firearms. I can ship fireworks eraser...
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Old April 8, 2013, 05:47 PM   #14
orionengnr
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First of all, below your user id it says "NJ", but your thread says: "I live in PA and need to ship to ID...is this all true?"

Once you figure out where you live... This is important, because if you live in PA, just because you are close to NJ and the FFL is there, I don't believe you (or he) can legally do this from out of your state of residence.

Go back to GunBroker.com.
Click the tab that says "Buyers". Yeah, I know, you are not buying. Stick with me.
Then select the line that says "Find a Transfer Dealer".
You can use city, state or zip code or even area code.
see if you can find someone nearby who isn't out to make a killing.

And next time, do your homework before you make a sale.
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Old April 8, 2013, 06:00 PM   #15
wpsdlrg
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Just FYI, the "gov't" did NOT create the shipping policies used by Fedex and UPS. The gov't only made the requirement that the receiver of the shipment be an FFL (and post office regulations, of course). Fedex and UPS set their OWN policies regarding gun shipments....and THEY are the ones who make you jump through these hoops....and charge a high cost for such shipments.

Also, the "hazmat" fee charged by these companies for shipment of certain things, such as reloading supplies....is ENTIRELY the creation of the shipping companies....the gov't had nothing to do with it and receives NONE of the fee.

Blaming "the gov't" for Fedex and UPS policies is just nonsense.
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Old April 8, 2013, 06:01 PM   #16
BigD_in_FL
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$50 sounds excessive to those in more gun-friendly states, but the OP DOES live in NJ

And $50 is a lot cheaper than Fedex/UPS overnight requirements
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Old April 8, 2013, 07:41 PM   #17
Joe_Pike
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Most FFLs where I live will not even ship for me. The ones that will want at least $55.00 to do so. The common carriers want $70-$90 to ship, so, I use Armslist if I want to sell a firearm.
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Old April 8, 2013, 09:42 PM   #18
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You could call FedEx and ask about a pickup from your site. UPS has a policy against that, but FedEx might do it. Tell them it's a firearm and it's going to an FFL. You'll have to have proof of that to show the driver. If they won't do that, call UPS and find out if they will. Their policy says no, but if the distance is quite far, they might, especially if the driver is visiting a business. If neither of those work, find out if the receiving FFL will order the pickup for you. They can send a box with correct labels to you. All of those can be done legally if only UPS, FedEx and the FFL will cooperate. I'm not saying it won't cost, but lessons learned and all that.

But find a different local FFL. Explain your situation and, if he'll cut you a break, use the money from the sale to buy something from him.
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Old April 8, 2013, 09:52 PM   #19
Tom Servo
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Quote:
I consider $50 per gun excessive UNLESS the FFL dealer is going to do all the wrapping and insuring as well as transport to the Post Office, and that includes the shipping cost.
That's generally the expectation. Most guns brought to us for shipping are in a shoebox or holster, and we're doing the packaging. Then there's interfacing with another dealer and the bookkeeping.

If the customer has done some of the legwork already, that'll lower the price. If they haven't, $50 for shipping, insurance, and labor isn't that bad.
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Old April 8, 2013, 10:51 PM   #20
Thompson
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Gun Shipping nightmare -Help?

Ammo can be shipped by UPS Ground. Address label should indicate contents as "Small Arms Ammunition" and box must be marked ORM-D. There should be no Haz-Mat charge for ammunition. Cost of shipping can be estimated by going to UPS website and clicking link for "Calculate Time and Cost".
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Old April 8, 2013, 11:42 PM   #21
Carmady
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Have any of you without a FFL shipped a handgun out of state through FedEx lately?

I thought they said they wouldn't do it (over the phone or online, I forget which).
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Old April 8, 2013, 11:54 PM   #22
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmady
Have any of you without a FFL shipped a handgun out of state through FedEx lately?
See post 8 for the FedEx rules, current as of 7 January 2013. Paragraph A. 2. says specifically that FedEx will ship a gun (emphasis added):
Quote:
...Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same)....
That doesn't not guarantee that one might not get the wrong information from a counter person or customer service person.
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Old April 8, 2013, 11:57 PM   #23
allaroundhunter
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Dang, sorry to hear about that, boxjeff. I had to ship a gun once, and the FFL that I went to wanted $45. I thought that was a little too pricey so I contacted an FFL friend of mine who only charged me what it actually cost to ship the gun. Much cheaper, and I repaid his generosity by giving him all of my business from then on.
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Old April 9, 2013, 06:48 AM   #24
rebs
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you can do a search for an FFL in your area and possible fins someone that charges less than $50.00 I have an FFL in my area that charges 25.00. He does it as a service to his customers, not to make money.
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Old April 9, 2013, 08:41 AM   #25
Buckdown
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I would ship the ammo my self just attach an ORMD sticker or in writing on the box and the guns thru the FFL and offset the shipping charges to the buyer
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