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Old March 12, 2013, 08:30 PM   #1
nanewt02
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Sporting purposes?

i understand that any gun that fires a bullet over .50 makes it a destructive device unless it is "for Sporting purpose". i am working on a big bore wildcat that will be over .50, the rifle im designing wont chamber anything else,
so, before i make it, how do i get the cartridge qualified for sporting purpouses and given the OK by the ATF. or, is it ok to make since it is "for Sporting purpose.
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Old March 12, 2013, 10:48 PM   #2
big al hunter
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Try naming it
______hog killer
^
Insert caliber here

Or something like that.

And chamber it in a bolt or break action.

Just guessing as to what makes it "sporting" but that fits my definition. What caliber are you working with?
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Old March 19, 2013, 02:07 PM   #3
reynolds357
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Get ATF to approve it before you actually manufacture it.
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Old March 19, 2013, 03:58 PM   #4
Magnum Wheel Man
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Technically most 50 caliber rifles are .510", even the 50 caliber handguns are .501"

but then the ATF nixed Taurus's 28 ga judge offering, so you never know... I guess I wouldn't expect much flexibility right now in the USA... if you could start in Africa hunting big game, 1st ( not going to happen with anything I do )

also a detriment might be if you were starting with a 20mm military barrel, & trying to build a sporting rifle, you might not get too far ???
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Old March 19, 2013, 08:26 PM   #5
Art Eatman
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Yeah, probably oughta check with ATF first.
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Old March 19, 2013, 09:18 PM   #6
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If at all possible, try to get written ATF approval.

If push ever comes to shove you really, really REALLY want to be able to demonstrate that ATF approved it. So here's what I suggest: Make some extra copies. Lots of them. Laminate them. Then mail copies to your five closest friends, preferably scattered to the four corners of the globe, three more to your lawyer, two more copies in safe deposit boxes, bury three more, scan one copy to your hard drive with online backup, another copy on a flash drive, and mail three copies (from different post offices and on different dates, registered mail, return receipt requested) to yourself with your signature over the flap on the envelope (make a small note on the outside of the envelope and do not open them unless in a court of law for an Ah-HA moment). . . oh, yeah and find a couple more ways to safeguard a few more copies.

Did I mention making a couple of extra copies?
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Old March 19, 2013, 09:23 PM   #7
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I have worked on and off with ATF agents for 16 years. Worked closely with them when I worked Narcotics. As a rule, they are not bad people. They are definitely not the devil. From what I saw, you had to do something pretty bad to even get on their radar. "Messing" with honest gun owners was the furthest thing from their mind.
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Old March 20, 2013, 06:43 PM   #8
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You'll need to send a letter to the Firearms Technology Branch declaring your intent. Usually, they'll request a drawing and/or photo. At that point, they'll send a letter declaring the weapon exempt.

The address is the same as the NFA office:
BATFE c/o FATB
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, WV 25401

From what I understand, they're pretty easy to deal with on this.
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Old March 20, 2013, 06:48 PM   #9
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I believe the M24 is bolt action and not very sporting for example, so automatic exemption was unlikely.
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Old March 20, 2013, 06:55 PM   #10
nanewt02
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any idea how long it will take for the letter to go through
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Old March 20, 2013, 07:13 PM   #11
James K
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Regardless, do write (not e-mail or phone) ATF, describe exactly what you are making and why, and why you feel it will have a genuine sporting purpose that a gun under .50 caliber won't fulfill. Note that the reply may take a while.

You should receive a reply in writing. If you get approval, it will be in writing also. You probably won't need dozens of copies, but keep the original in a safe place. Then make the gun as you described it to ATF. Do not decide to make it full automatic or have it fire nuclear rounds. If you are turned down, best drop the idea and work on something that is not subject to approval by anyone.

Jim
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Old March 20, 2013, 08:24 PM   #12
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I find it funny how when the issue of the Non-NFA "AOW-like" shotguns is brought up, people say "You're gonna trust that thing to be considered legal just based on the opinion of the ATF that they can change at any time?" Which by the way is highly unlikely considering that it's not just the ATF's opinion, it's the law. And has been like this since the 60's (so I heard, no proof on that date). If the ATF wanted to change it, I'm sure they would have done so the first time someone tried to build that gun.

While with the sporting exemption in a case like this, people are perfectly willing to trust the legality of their gun just based on the ATF saying "Meh, sure why not. We'll exempt it. But just because you asked nicely" In this case it is purely the ATF's opinion since they have complete discretion in deciding wether your gun is sporting or not.

Curious that.
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Old March 20, 2013, 08:56 PM   #13
Mezzanine
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Please forgive my ignorance as i only ask to better myself. But why do you need ATF approval to rechamber your rifle if the bore remains under .500" and maintains at least a 16" barrel and 26" OAL? Knowledge is the greatest weapon and im better arming myself every day...
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Old March 20, 2013, 09:01 PM   #14
nanewt02
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because the new bore will be larger than .50
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Old March 20, 2013, 09:29 PM   #15
JimDandy
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He's going Safari Super Size.
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Old March 22, 2013, 11:53 PM   #16
Newton24b
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there is a company that makes a 90 cal bolt action single shot. i beleive its based on a cut down, knecked up .50bmg case. it was declared legal as its bolt action, single shot, and the entire bolt has to be removed from the action in order to unload/reload.

but get a letter to them.
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Old March 23, 2013, 10:30 AM   #17
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.950 JDJ made by SSK Industries and it is based off of the 20X102 aka 20mm Vulcan case.
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Old March 23, 2013, 01:18 PM   #18
-Xero-
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I'm a pretty fair reader, and I don't see "sporting purposes" mentioned anywhere in the 2nd. Amendment.
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Old March 23, 2013, 02:06 PM   #19
taylorce1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Xero-
I'm a pretty fair reader, and I don't see "sporting purposes" mentioned anywhere in the 2nd. Amendment.
Has nothing to do with the second amendment it has to do with avoiding taxes and registration by keeping it a class 1 firearm.
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Old March 23, 2013, 02:33 PM   #20
-Xero-
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Quote:
Has nothing to do with the second amendment it has to do with avoiding taxes and registration by keeping it a class 1 firearm.
Regulation of arms according to caliber is "infringement." There's no provision in the 2nd Amendment regarding "sporting purposes" or "hunting." The 2nd Amendment is not about either.

I understand federal firearms regulation. Do you understand the Bill of Rights?
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Old March 23, 2013, 02:58 PM   #21
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Yes I understand the bill of rights, but you still have to play within the rules of the NFA abd GCA or risk loosing your rights altogether. Until SCOUS overturns NFA and GCA as an infringement of the 2nd amendment then I'll not risk becoming a felon by following your idiotic thinking that you will be saved under the 2nd amendment. I for one don't have the money nor want to be incarcerated until my innocence is proved.
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Old March 23, 2013, 05:21 PM   #22
Vanya
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Guys.... chill.

The topic of the thread is compliance with ATF regulations, not the meaning of the Second Amendment. Let's stay on track.

(Duplicate threads merged.)
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Last edited by Vanya; March 24, 2013 at 04:25 PM. Reason: note about merging threads.
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Old March 26, 2013, 04:31 PM   #23
nanewt02
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I think il just write a letter, waiting for a reply will drive me crazy, ohwell
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Old April 5, 2013, 11:43 AM   #24
nanewt02
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Who knows how to write a letter to the ATF

I've only wrote a few letters in my life and I'm not sure how one would go about writing a letter to the ATF to get a sporting exemption for a wildcat cartridge, can't seem to fine any samples of writing

Last edited by nanewt02; April 5, 2013 at 11:44 AM. Reason: Correction
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Old April 5, 2013, 09:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
I'm not sure how one would go about writing a letter to the ATF
The address is in post #8. That said, you can start by calling your local field division. They're usually pretty helpful.
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