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Old April 5, 2013, 05:21 PM   #1
dakota.potts
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Do you have to be 21 to buy pistol ammo?

My 18th birthday is coming up in August and I've asked the parents for a CZ75-BD. We own some guns but it will be my first gun. It'll be one that I'll keep locked in my own safe with me in my room, I'll take to the range to pactice myself, I'll compete with, and maybe I'll carry concealed when I turn 21.

None of that's relevant, I'm just excited

Anyways, I can't buy a handgun from a dealer until I'm 21. However, there's no problem with my parents buying it and gifting it to me since I'll be a legal adult. I'll be able to own it whether in my car or home and it will legally be mine. What I am worried about, however, is getting handgun ammo. For some reason I have a feeling you have to be 21 to buy 9mm ammo. This would be concerning as I'd have to rely on somebody else to secure all of my ammo for me and working around their schedules and making them do it for me would really be unfair for me to ask.

Do you have to be 21? Can you buy it from a private vendor (not an FFL) if you're under, the same way you can the pistol? Could I buy it online and have it shipped?

I'm in Florida if it makes a difference.

Any external links are also appreciated
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Old April 5, 2013, 06:35 PM   #2
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I got .44 magnum and .40 s&w before I was 21. But I'm in Indiana.
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Old April 5, 2013, 06:46 PM   #3
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22 years ago I didn't but I have no clue now.
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Old April 5, 2013, 06:56 PM   #4
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In Oregon and Idaho when I was 20 stores wouldnt let me buy handgun ammo. when i was back in my home town there was only one LGS, i knew the owner really well and i was a faithful customer for many years. when i was 13 i started buying my own ammo. The would call my parents and ask if it was ok if i was buying (insert caliber or lb of pounder, brick of primers ect.) eventually after months of my parents saying yes every time he stopped calling them and just sold them to me. legally i dont think Cabelas or any of the major sporting goods retailers will sell you a box of 9.
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Old April 5, 2013, 06:58 PM   #5
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I think you are messing with us old folks. Go use the internet and find the answer.

I am starting to wonder if we have anti-gun people messing with us.

Last edited by lamarw; April 5, 2013 at 07:04 PM.
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Old April 5, 2013, 08:56 PM   #6
BusterValentine
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In Florida it is illegal to buy handgun ammo if you are under the age of 21. HOWEVER if the ammo is for a rifle (9mm carbine for example) it is legal to buy but most stores aren't going to sell it to you. So basically if you "get caught" buying handgun ammo, you need to have a rifle (16"+ barell/26"+ overall length) that shoots that particular ammo.

As for private seller, I'm not sure. Best to just have someone get it for you in bulk until you find the specific law or precedent saying it's ok for you to buy it from a private seller.

Hope this answers your question.

Last edited by BusterValentine; April 5, 2013 at 09:02 PM.
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Old April 5, 2013, 08:57 PM   #7
Misssissippi Dave
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Purchasing ammo from a retailer you do have to be 21 for pistol ammo and 18 for rifle ammo.
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Old April 5, 2013, 09:07 PM   #8
PetahW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota.potts

My 18th birthday is coming up in August and I've asked the parents for a CZ75-BD.
It'll be one that I'll keep locked in my own safe with me in my room, I'll take to the range to pactice myself, I'll compete with, and maybe I'll carry concealed when I turn 21.

None of that's relevant, I'm just excited

Anyways, I can't buy a handgun from a dealer until I'm 21. However, there's no problem with my parents buying it and gifting it to me since I'll be a legal adult

Actually, a LOT of that's relevant - since, although you may be an 18-y.o. "adult" in 5 months, you won't be 21 years old, and legally qualified to have a handgun or ammo for it for another 3 years after that.

Added to that, if your parents buy the handgun, and gift it to you before you're 21, they, too, will AFAIK be in violation of Federal Law by making a "straw purchase" of a firearm for someone else who is unqualified to own/purchase said firearm.

IOW, "if" they go through with your request, and an LEO stops you going to/from the range for any reason, and discovers you with a handgun, you (and most likely your parents) are t-o-a-s-t.



.
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Old April 5, 2013, 09:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PetahW
Added to that, if your parents buy the handgun, and gift it to you before you're 21, they, too, will AFAIK be in violation of Federal Law by making a "straw purchase" of a firearm for someone else who is unqualified to own/purchase said firearm.
No, that's incorrect. Under federal law, persons under 21 may not purchase handguns from FFLs. There is no federal prohibition to handgun possession for persons 18+. IOW, if state law will allow him to possess at 18, and private party transfers from parent to child can be done w/o having to go through an FFL, then it is perfectly legal for dakota's parents to purchase a handgun for him as a gift for his 18th birthday.

Handgun ammunition works the same way under federal law. Folks from 18-21 cannot purchase handgun ammunition from an FFL, but there is no federal prohibition on possession.

What is permissible under dakota's state law may be another matter entirely, but as I am unaware of his state, I cannot comment on it.
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Old April 5, 2013, 09:30 PM   #10
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Petah --

Your post is completely and totally false. A 18y/o may own a handgun, they just cannot purchase one on their own from a FFL. A 18y/o can purchase a handgun via private party, so parents do not even need to be involved (unless their is a state law prohibiting it). If your parents purchase a handgun for you on your 18th birthday, and your state allows it, it's legal.

Ammo is more difficult, since most anyone who sells ammo will conclude that your ammo is for a handgun, and that it is not legal to sell ammo for a pistol to a 18-20 y/o. You could say its for a rifle, but that's also not legal if you don't own a rifle in that caliber. Of course they could just not ask, since there is no requirement to do so, and you could just not say anything either.
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Old April 5, 2013, 09:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusterValentine
In Florida it is illegal to buy handgun ammo if you are under the age of 21.
Can you provide a citation? I can't find this in the FL statutes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misssissippi Dave
Purchasing ammo from a retailer you do have to be 21 for pistol ammo and 18 for rifle ammo.
Federal law prohibits a FFL from selling ammo for a firearm "other than a rifle or a shotgun" to a buyer whom the seller "knows or has reasonable cause the believe" to be under age 21. However, the law does not prohibit the buyer from possessing the ammo, nor does it apply to a seller that is not a FFL.

Some FFLs routinely check ID for pistol-type ammo, but this is a private business decision and not a hard-and-fast legal requirement, at least not under federal law. (I am generally unfamiliar with FL law.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PetahW
...if your parents buy the handgun, and gift it to you before you're 21, they, too, will AFAIK be in violation of Federal Law by making a "straw purchase" of a firearm for someone else who is unqualified to own/purchase said firearm.
AFAIK federal law does not prohibit an 18-year-old from owning or possessing a handgun, it only prohibits a FFL from selling one to him or her. Furthermore, legitimate gifts of firearms (and ammo) are perfectly legal under federal law, provided that the recipient is lawfully permitted to possess the firearm. The key is "legitimate gift"- i.e. no expectation of any type of compensation in return. If compensation is expected, THEN it is a straw purchase.

Mandatory disclaimer: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. This is not legal advice. Caveat emptor and YMMV.
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Last edited by carguychris; April 5, 2013 at 09:41 PM. Reason: redundant paragraph shortened
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Old April 5, 2013, 09:40 PM   #12
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The way things are now, Dakota probably won't find any 9MM ammo until he is 21
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Old April 5, 2013, 09:54 PM   #13
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Actually compensation for the purchase does not make it a straw purchase -- the only thing that makes a purchase a straw purchase is one party buying a firearm with the intent to make it available for a prohibited person.

If I find a firearm, buy it, and resell it that day at a premium to another eligible person, it is totally legal.
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Old April 5, 2013, 10:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinoons
Actually compensation for the purchase does not make it a straw purchase -- the only thing that makes a purchase a straw purchase is one party buying a firearm with the intent to make it available for a prohibited person.
Incorrect. For purposes of firearms, it is a matter of whether the transferee is the "actual purchaser" of the firearm. That is Question 11a from the 4473. Here are some examples from the 4473:
Quote:
Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, you are the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately
purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party. ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER of the firearm and must answer “NO” to question 11.a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer “YES” to question 11.a. However, you may not transfer a firearm to any person you know or have reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g), (n), or (x). Please note: EXCEPTION: If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b
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Old April 5, 2013, 11:37 PM   #15
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It's a very grey area of the law. If I purchased the rifle for myself, and then decided to sell it five minutes later when I was offered twice what I paid I can sell it. If I know someone who is going to pay me for a gun, but I buy the gun with my own funds, that is technically legal.

If I purchase a firearm with the intent to give it as a gift that is legal too.

The big catch is that once I take ownership of the firearm, if I dispose of it, I cannot do so to a criminal.
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Old April 6, 2013, 01:13 AM   #16
dakota.potts
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Did some more digging and it seems ammo is subject to the same restrictions as a handgun. I can buy from a private seller (either) at age 18 but not from an FFL.
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Old April 7, 2013, 11:00 AM   #17
carguychris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota.potts
Did some more digging and it seems ammo is subject to the same restrictions as a handgun. I can buy from a private seller (either) at age 18 but not from an FFL.
Correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinoons
Actually compensation for the purchase does not make it a straw purchase -- the only thing that makes a purchase a straw purchase is one party buying a firearm with the intent to make it available for a prohibited person.
Incorrect. Providing a firearm to a prohibited person is a crime in and of itself, regardless of whether compensation is involved.

A straw purchase may occur regardless of whether the recipient is legally prohibited from possessing the firearm. Although most straw purchases presumably involve prohibited persons, this is not universally true; for instance, some people may initiate straw purchases under the mistaken assumption that the Form 4473 is a type of federal registration.

This is a subtle point but an important one to understand IMHO.
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Old April 7, 2013, 12:02 PM   #18
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straight from the statute book

The 2012 Florida Statutes

Title XLVI
CRIMES


Chapter 790
WEAPONS AND FIREARMS

790.17 Furnishing weapons to minors under 18 years of age or persons of unsound mind and furnishing firearms to minors under 18 years of age prohibited.—
(1) A person who sells, hires, barters, lends, transfers, or gives any minor under 18 years of age any dirk, electric weapon or device, or other weapon, other than an ordinary pocketknife, without permission of the minor’s parent or guardian, or sells, hires, barters, lends, transfers, or gives to any person of unsound mind an electric weapon or device or any dangerous weapon, other than an ordinary pocketknife, commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.


(2)(a) A person may not knowingly or willfully sell or transfer a firearm to a minor under 18 years of age, except that a person may transfer ownership of a firearm to a minor with permission of the parent or guardian. A person who violates this paragraph commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(b) The parent or guardian must maintain possession of the firearm except pursuant to s. 790.22.

790.18 Sale or transfer of arms to minors by dealers.—It is unlawful for any dealer in arms to sell or transfer to a minor any firearm, pistol, Springfield rifle or other repeating rifle, bowie knife or dirk knife, brass knuckles, slungshot, or electric weapon or device. A person who violates this section commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082,

I have never seen any one arrested for selling pistol ammo to a minor unless they had about twenty other charges as they like to stack charges in my county. I have way better stuff to do than bother people about ammo.
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Old April 7, 2013, 01:36 PM   #19
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grizz223, do you happen to have the statutes on ammo? The ones you've listed don't mention it.
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Old April 7, 2013, 02:13 PM   #20
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There is not one that I can find or I would have included it. Maybe i'm just not seeing it but the only thing I could find that dealt with ammo is below

790.31 Armor-piercing or exploding ammunition or dragon’s breath shotgun shells, bolo shells, or flechette shells prohibited.—
(1) As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Armor-piercing bullet” means any bullet which has a steel inner core or core of equivalent hardness and a truncated cone and which is designed for use in a handgun as an armor-piercing or metal-piercing bullet.

(b) “Exploding bullet” means any bullet that can be fired from any firearm, if such bullet is designed or altered so as to detonate or forcibly break up through the use of an explosive or deflagrant contained wholly or partially within or attached to such bullet. The term does not include any bullet designed to expand or break up through the mechanical forces of impact alone or any signaling device or pest control device not designed to impact on any target.

(c) “Handgun” means a firearm capable of being carried and used by one hand, such as a pistol or revolver.

(d) “Dragon’s breath shotgun shell” means any shotgun shell that contains exothermic pyrophoric misch metal as the projectile and that is designed for the sole purpose of throwing or spewing a flame or fireball to simulate a flamethrower.

(e) “Bolo shell” means any shell that can be fired in a firearm and that expels as projectiles two or more metal balls connected by solid metal wire.

(f) “Flechette shell” means any shell that can be fired in a firearm and that expels two or more pieces of fin-stabilized solid metal wire or two or more solid dart-type projectiles.


(2)(a) Any person who manufactures, sells, offers for sale, or delivers any armor-piercing bullet or exploding bullet, or dragon’s breath shotgun shell, bolo shell, or flechette shell is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(b) Any person who possesses an armor-piercing bullet or exploding bullet with knowledge of its armor-piercing or exploding capabilities loaded in a handgun, or who possesses a dragon’s breath shotgun shell, bolo shell, or flechette shell with knowledge of its capabilities loaded in a firearm, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(c) Any person who possesses with intent to use an armor-piercing bullet or exploding bullet or dragon’s breath shotgun shell, bolo shell, or flechette shell to assist in the commission of a criminal act is guilty of a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) This section does not apply to:
(a) The possession of any item described in subsection (1) by any law enforcement officer, when possessed in connection with the performance of his or her duty as a law enforcement officer, or law enforcement agency.

(b) The manufacture of items described in subsection (1) exclusively for sale or delivery to law enforcement agencies.

(c) The sale or delivery of items described in subsection (1) to law enforcement agencies.

History.—s. 1, ch. 83-253; s. 1, ch. 92-141; s. 1221, ch. 97-102.
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Old April 7, 2013, 03:45 PM   #21
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Thanks, grizz. I was unaware of any FL statutes on point, but, then again, I'm not a FL lawyer.
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