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Old April 3, 2013, 10:00 PM   #1
red96ta
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question regarding lbs of black in ca

Got the nod from the wifey to get a Pennsylvania rifle next week and have a question for you California folks. State law says that you can only have one pound of BP. Sooo...if you were to strictly follow the law, how do you have 3FG for the charge and 4FG for the pan if you can only have one pound and nobody sells anything less than a pound?
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Old April 3, 2013, 10:15 PM   #2
musher
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Maybe your wife can own the 4fg
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Old April 3, 2013, 10:21 PM   #3
Jim Watson
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Yet another useless repressive law. Oh, well.

You could get up a group buy and split up a pound of FFFFg.
An ounce will prime a lot of pans. You could stagger your buys of FFFg and level out cans of that at <15 oz.

You could prime with FFFg, the Army primed out of their cartridges of Musket grain.

You could grind A LITTLE powder finer with a non-sparking mortar and pestle or just a couple of spoons.

Geez, I have an annual four day BPCR shoot in Georgia. I shoot up about a pound and a half over a long weekend. Not allowed in California, by that law.
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Old April 3, 2013, 11:22 PM   #4
red96ta
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Yeah, despite the law, every time I go into my LGS for Goex, they always ask how many pounds I want...um, one.
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Old April 4, 2013, 06:33 AM   #5
B.L.E.
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There's always the option of breaking the law. Like everybody does when they keep up with the traffic on a 55 mph highway.
Has anyone been prosecuted for having too much BP in that state lately, and broke only that law?
It might be like riding a bicycle on the sidewalk, it's illegal but most places won't prosecute the crime unless the act is causing a problem.
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Old April 4, 2013, 07:58 PM   #6
4V50 Gary
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Former Californian here

I would just use 3F for the pan too.
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Old April 4, 2013, 08:31 PM   #7
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How about getting the required permits?
I wonder how one would do that... I'll have to check it out. I'd hate to go to jail for not having one.
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Old April 4, 2013, 09:54 PM   #8
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Typical dumb law. Where you are likely to get into trouble is if there is a fire or explosion of more than a pound. Your insurance company may not pay off or the fire department may just back away and let the whole house burn down so as to not risk a fireman getting hurt. A fellow avid shooter I know had a house fire and the fire dept just backed away and let everything cook off. He lost everything. Lots of guns, ammo, primers & powder.
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Old April 4, 2013, 10:48 PM   #9
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My impression of CA is that it isn't an ultra liberal state so much as it is a conservative state occupied by a liberal government dominated by a few large cities. Away from those large cities, the local LEOs are likely to "look the other way" over the ownership of two pounds of powder, especially if you have guns that use the stuff.
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Old April 5, 2013, 10:58 AM   #10
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Kind of like my old state, Illinois. Get away from Cook & lake county your all right. Problem is they seem to control the whole state.
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Old April 5, 2013, 11:02 AM   #11
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Almost that bad here in Orygun. Portland metro area dominating the whole state. Probably the same for Colorado where Denver rules an otherwise great state.
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Old April 5, 2013, 01:23 PM   #12
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New York is this way also.

This is a national trend. Cities are coming to dominate politics.

Steve
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Old April 5, 2013, 03:50 PM   #13
Rigmarol
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I tried calling my Fire Marshall's office to ask about permitting requirements but they don't work of Fridays. I'll try again next week.
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Old April 5, 2013, 05:22 PM   #14
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I would proceed to buy a can of 3-FFF. Once gotten make your own 4-FFFF by chopping up 3-FFF into smaller pieces on a plastic cutting board or a small piece of flat glass which works best. 2-3-4-FFFF are all made of the same mixture. The only difference between them is the size of their kernel/ grain.
I once drove up to my cabin to B/P deer hunt. But left my 4-FFFF Gorex can home. 253 miles I would have to drive back to get it. But I did have a horn of 2-FF along. I drove to the closes big town and all I could find at the time was Pyrodex RS. Disappointed and back at the cabin I though about that long ride back home and the lost of two days vacation over a simple mistake on my part. Low and behold an old timer who was a good friend of my fathers stopped by in the early afternoon for a meet and greet and listened to my tail of woe over a cup of coffee. He's the one who told me to chop up some 2-FF into a size similar looking to 4-FFFF with a single edge Stanley saftey razor blade. I performed the task on a tea cup saucer. Not much of it but enough to prime my rifles pan at least 2-3 times. First little bit I chopped I immediately primed my rifles pan right there in the kitchen and by George it work slick on the first hammer fall. By the following days evening hunt I had a nice spike laying down on the ground in front of my stand 50-60 ft away. I've only bought (1) can of Gorex 4-FFFF in 25 or 30 years. And to this day it hasn't been opened more than once with only a once or so removed its entire time here. Been chopping up 2 and 3-FFF into 4-FFFF ever since that day in my cabins kitchen. That old timer is long gone now. But that little bit of help and knowledge he passed on to me still lingers.
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Old April 5, 2013, 06:09 PM   #15
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I would just screen the FFFg or FFg and save the dust and use it for priming. Just find a screen with a mesh that will pass 4f and smaller.

There was an article in Muzzle Blasts about serious target shooters rescreening their black powder for more consistant shot to shot performance. It could be that the difference between normal grades of BP and the premium grades is more careful screening. When I pour Schuetzen into a funnel to fill a powder flask, I notice a lot of dust. With Swiss and the premium priced Goex Cartridge, there seems to be little or no dust.
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Old April 5, 2013, 08:23 PM   #16
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B.L.E.
you make good sense, i really should have come up with that on my own...
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Old April 5, 2013, 09:55 PM   #17
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Colonial Willamsburg filmed the flintlock's ignition. They were startled to learn that first sparks actually jumped out of the pan. They saw fewer jumping with the larger grain powder and surmised that the larger grains captured the sparks; thereby causing ignition.

Remember that the soldiers of the 18th Century did not carry priming horns. They primed from their cartridges.
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Old April 6, 2013, 03:43 PM   #18
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I agree with Sure Shot, regular old FFg or FFFg made into smaller pieces should be more than adequate as FFFFg for priming - at least most of the time.

I am getting started in making my my own BP, don't have all the pieces yet; but I have been haunting the pyrotechnic forums since those guys make and burn BP by the pound.

The only hiccough I can think of - presence of sulfur reduces the ignition temperature of the mix. So if you have a mix of say 20% charcoal with 80% nitrate - no sulfur - it sill likely burn fine in say an inline rifle using a 209 primer, but the lack of sulfur might make it hard to light in the priming pan.

IIRC sulfur free BP lights around 440C, BP with maybe 8ish or so % sulfur lights around 300C.

The way around that it is to take some of the FFg in the can you got, make it into smaller pieces and see if you are getting hot enough sparks to light it in your pan with your flint. Which is exactly what sure shot already did.

FWIW I might be off base here. All my experience so far is with BP subs and primer ignitions. I did used to have a cap lock muzzle loader, but I used subs only in it and sent it down the road.

From reading about it sulfur makes the smoke nice and white(r) rolling out the muzzle, and lowers the ignition temp.
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Old April 6, 2013, 07:27 PM   #19
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That is why in the old days there were flintlock powder testers. Look like a small flintlock pistol with no barrel. A very useful device IMHO.
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Old April 8, 2013, 02:35 PM   #20
shafter
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Quote:
Remember that the soldiers of the 18th Century did not carry priming horns. They primed from their cartridges.
That's quite true but soldiers back then didn't worry about accuracy. Just point, close eyes, and pull the trigger. The rifle will fire but likely not as fast as with ffff powder.
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Old April 11, 2013, 07:05 AM   #21
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Quote: "My impression of CA is that it isn't an ultra liberal state so much as it is a conservative state occupied by a liberal government dominated by a few large cities. Away from those large cities, the local LEOs are likely to "look the other way" over the ownership of two pounds of powder, especially if you have guns that use the stuff. " B.L.E.

Your observation is quite correct. When I was stationed at Ft. Irwin a couple yrs ago, my team had a range area in the middle of the Mojave desert off post. We called in the grid to the San Bernardino County Sheriffs and asked if it was cool, and they didn't care in the least. Just said to make sure we had some form of backstop. We had a mountain as a backstop, lol! Never harassed us or anything, and occasionally, shenanigans such as shooting small lit propane cylinders occurred. Good times!
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Old April 11, 2013, 07:16 AM   #22
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^^ what he said. We have the same sort of thing just north of the base gate at Edwards AFB in the Mojave. black powder smoke there every Saturday, mixed in with the modern stuff. .338 Lapua at a mile, no sweat. Local Sheriff gives California CCW's to anyone who asks. Shooters Paradise...


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Old April 11, 2013, 07:35 AM   #23
4V50 Gary
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That's quite true but soldiers back then didn't worry about accuracy. Just point, close eyes, and pull the trigger. The rifle will fire but likely not as fast as with ffff powder.
Certainly accuracy was not the primary concern of the 18th Century military mind. However, even early riflemen did not carry priming horns either. Lewis Wetzel didn't, reloaded on the run and shot just fine.
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Old April 11, 2013, 08:01 AM   #24
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To the OP....

...In response to your original question.



Move out of California.
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Old April 11, 2013, 09:43 AM   #25
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"My impression of CA is that it isn't an ultra liberal state so much as it is a conservative state occupied by a liberal government dominated by a few large cities. Away from those large cities, the local LEOs are likely to "look the other way" over the ownership of two pounds of powder, especially if you have guns that use the stuff. "

That's been my impression also. You know there are benefits to living here.
Someone yesterday mentioned, horrible weather, low paying jobs, nasty Pacific Ocean beaches, tall, snow covered mountains, totally uninhabited areas, like the Mojave Desert, Death Valley, and the northern counties.
And parks, like Yosemite, Sequoia. Gold country, all the old small gold towns, many in their original condition from 100 to 150 years ago.
I don't know how much bp I have.
dc
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