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Old April 16, 2013, 06:14 PM   #1
Newton24b
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ruger convertible cylinders

heres my question, we like to talk about the good strength of the blackhawk chambered in 45 colt. and even the one in 357 magnum. But what about the strength of the convertible chambers in 45 acp and 9mm? do these chambers have some incredible level of allowable chamber pressure?
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Old April 16, 2013, 07:45 PM   #2
TMD
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Same cylinder just cut to fit the appropiate cartridge.
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Old April 16, 2013, 08:26 PM   #3
GeauxTide
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The strength of the case determines the pressure, so stick with the SAAMI specs. The 9 goes to 35k, but the ACP is 21-23k. I shot 200SWC out of the ACP for 1000fps. Easy and accurate.
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Old April 17, 2013, 07:22 AM   #4
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You can cut down a 30.06 case to fit the .45apc cylinder. Detonics used to offer a 451 magnum kit for the 1911's that used the .06 case. It was a magnum! More suitable for a revolver than a slide gun.
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Old April 17, 2013, 07:39 AM   #5
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No difference in strength. I have one in .45 ACP and I also handload the .45 Super. I've not tried any .45 Super in it yet, but I don't see that it would be a problem as my .45 Super loads are at least 30K psi loads if not more.

There's an article about a guy using the .45 ACP cylinder and ACP brass to load up 460 Rowland level loads and it worked. I'm not advocating that, but just to say it's been done.
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Old April 17, 2013, 10:51 AM   #6
newfrontier45
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Quote:
The strength of the case determines the pressure...
The strength of the chamber determines pressure. The case is merely a gasket. The .45Colt is routinely used for loads in the 50-55,000psi range so your statement is false.
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Old April 17, 2013, 09:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
.45Colt is routinely used for loads in the 50-55,000psi range
Correct, but not SAAMI spec.
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Old April 17, 2013, 09:36 PM   #8
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Old April 17, 2013, 09:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Correct, but not SAAMI spec.
So???


Quote:
From Ruger:
Huh???
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Old April 17, 2013, 10:38 PM   #10
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Old April 18, 2013, 07:14 AM   #11
Newton24b
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perhaps some cunfusion has come through the word "convertible'. i dont mean cartridge conversion cylinder for a ROA.

I am asking about the strength of the blackhawk convertible revolvers.
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Old April 18, 2013, 10:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
That is the disclaimer on their conversion cylinders.
Who??? We're talking about factory .45Colt/.45ACP convertible Blackhawks, not conversion cylinders in Old Armies.
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Old April 18, 2013, 07:36 PM   #13
GeauxTide
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[QUOTE][The strength of the chamber determines pressure. The case is merely a gasket. The .45Colt is routinely used for loads in the 50-55,000psi range so your statement is false./QUOTE]

So, I can load 357 loads in Special cases, and 44 Mag loads in Special cases? What are the standard production revolvers with loads of 50-55k for the 45Colt? None. John Linebaugh crafted custom, oversized cylinders to raise the bar.
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Old April 18, 2013, 07:42 PM   #14
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In a nutshell, you implied that the case is the weakest link but this is 100% incorrect.


Quote:
So, I can load 357 loads in Special cases, and 44 Mag loads in Special cases?
Simply put, yes. Both Specials survive just fine with .38-44 and heavy Keith loads respectively. I have loaded standard .38Spl cases with heavy .38-44 loads over 20 times without a failure. The brass is not a limitation. There's nothing magical about magnum brass.


Quote:
What are the standard production revolvers with loads of 50-55k for the 45Colt?
How is that relevant?


Quote:
John Linebaugh crafted custom, oversized cylinders to raise the bar.
Thank you for proving my point that it's the chamber that withstands the pressure, not the cartridge case.
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Old April 19, 2013, 06:39 AM   #15
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I own a BH 45 convertible and have played with some "revolver only" loads with the 45ACP cylinder and had what I thought was good success. I was able to reach mid power 45 Colt velocities with 230 grain RN hard cast lead. 45 ACP components are a lot easier to find and cheaper to reload for.


Accuracy seemed to be good but I was not in conditions to do any real accuracy testing. I did like the satisfying feel of shooting them and plan on loading up some more.

Hope this helps!
James
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Old April 21, 2013, 12:05 PM   #16
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I am asking about the strength of the blackhawk convertible revolvers.
I have a Colt/ ACP Ruger and once owned a 357/9mm.
The guns are equal in strength compared to the non convertible Rugers.
Why are you asking, it might help in getting a better answer or one you’re looking for.
And gentleman arguing on pressure vs cases. You’re hijacking the thread. Please give the OP some space.

P.S. I agree with jtmckinney. The only way I could get accuracy out of the ACP was to go with larger cast bullets. I have some Penn round nose 200GR .455 dia. that proved to be very accurate out of the gun even with moderate loads. Most 45 ACP (.451) were not, 10 inch groups at 15 were best I could do.
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Old April 21, 2013, 12:09 PM   #17
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You’re hijacking the thread.
Not really and the discussion goes where it goes.
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Old April 22, 2013, 08:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
But what about the strength of the convertible chambers in 45 acp and 9mm? do these chambers have some incredible level of allowable chamber pressure?
The short answer is...no.

And that is because of the wording, allowable chamber pressure.

Any time you go beyond SAAMI specs, you are entirely on your own. Can you do it in a Ruger Blackhawk (either regular of convertible)? Sure you can. And you can most likely do it without damage to the gun, depending of course, on how much you exceed SAAMI specs. But if you do, it is entirely your responsibility. Not Ruger's.

Rugers are tanks, compared to Colt pattern SAs, but they are not without limits. You can blow one up, just like you can blow up anything.

The strength of the second cylinder is seldom asked about, mostly because very few people bother to load overpressure rounds for them. The 9mm in particular can't get much hotter (assuming a suitable powder) before running out of room in the case, and the .45ACP is seldom loaded hotter than standard either, mostly because anyone wishing more than these rounds give at normal pressures just slips in the cylinder for the larger round and shoots that instead. Also, for those of us who own other guns in 9mm or .45ACP, there is a risk of accidently putting "Ruger only" loads in them. Not a good idea for regular semi autos.

Unless there is some special heat treating involved in one cylinder and not the other (and for that, you better ask Ruger), cylinders with the same outside dimensions and basically the same size holes in them are going to have essentially the same strength.

Brass does play a part in total absolute strength, but not at regular working pressures. Cases properly supported by the chamber don't begin to let go until you get well above 60,000psi in rifles, and I expect about the same from handgun brass. The primary factors are basically the thickness of the steel in the cylinder (and frame), and any specific heat treating used.
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Old April 22, 2013, 09:16 PM   #19
Bob Wright
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This is purely my observation, but a Ruger cylinder will burst with an excessive handload just as with any other manufacturer's cylinder of the same dimensions. If not burst, at least bulge.

To say that Rugers are built "like a tank" is true, but that strength is in the frame and overall make up of the gun. That is, it is built to absord the stess of recoil forces. Part of the strength is its thick top strap. I have seen a Ruger digest hundreds of heavy loads when a similar single action suffered a very pronounced stretched top strap.

There is no practical advantage to going "over the top."

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Old April 23, 2013, 11:25 AM   #20
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I agree that the 9mm and .45ACP cartridges don't leave much room for improvement. Before you decided to start loading .45Super or Rowland, both those can be beat by handloading the .45Colt without dangerous pressures (exceeding 32,000psi).
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