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Old March 13, 2013, 05:41 PM   #1
popsbrothers
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Winchester 94 32-40

I just acquired a Winchester 1894, 32-40 serial number 2387. After a
little research I'm starting to get a little excited. I'm not an
experienced collector so I'm not certain of the condition but it
appears to me very good for being over 119 years old. The serial number indicates that it was made in 1894 which is good. The bluing and
stock appear to be original finish but again I'm new to this. I'm
going to try to post a few photos so give me your thoughts and
opinions of what I need to do to verify the value. I'm leaving tonight
for a week of squirrel shooting or until the ammo runs out. When I
return I plan to have it appraised at a local gun shop but if this is
what it appears to be I think I should do a little more research.
Thanks for your feedback.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg winchester 001.jpg (74.0 KB, 83 views)
File Type: jpg winchester 008.jpg (52.8 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg winchester 006.jpg (75.0 KB, 59 views)
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Old March 13, 2013, 05:43 PM   #2
popsbrothers
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more

Here is some more photos.
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File Type: jpg winchester 002.jpg (72.5 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg winchester 009.jpg (57.2 KB, 48 views)
File Type: jpg winchester 011.jpg (54.8 KB, 48 views)
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Old March 13, 2013, 06:40 PM   #3
WillyKern69
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Great looking rifle, looks ligit to me from the pics.

WK
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Old March 14, 2013, 12:17 AM   #4
Lucas McCain
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I have a couple of questions;
1. It appears that that rifle does not have a nickel steel barrel. What does the bore look like?
2. Can you post a couple pictures of the front and rear sights?
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Old March 14, 2013, 01:03 AM   #5
popsbrothers
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I'm not sure how to tell the difference in the type of steel and I don't have a bore scope so from what I can see the bore is dirty and I can't see any pitting, not saying there isn't any. Thanks for your interest.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg winchester 013.jpg (94.5 KB, 50 views)
File Type: jpg winchester 014.jpg (51.5 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg winchester 015.jpg (56.4 KB, 44 views)
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Old March 14, 2013, 04:42 AM   #6
Scorch
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Very nice. Don't know why, but many folks are not interested in 32-40 rifles.

An 1894 date of production rifle would not have a nickel steel barrel. An 1894 date of production production rifle was not chambered and built to smokeless powder standards.
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Old March 14, 2013, 06:06 AM   #7
Mike Irwin
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Wow, finish is thin, but the wood and metal are in really nice shape.

When the 1894 was introduced, it was intended to be rolled out with both the black powder .32-40 and .38-55 rounds as well as the smokeless .30-30 and .25-35 rounds.

Unfortunately, Winchester ran into issues getting enough smokeless powder to load the ammunition, so they had to delay the .30 and .25 rounds until late 1895.

The .32 and .38 rifles were built with the old, softer steel suitable for lead bullets and black powder.

If you want to shoot it, it is inadvisable to use jacketed bullets at all, and use only very light charges of smokeless powder, if any at all.

Winchester produced the two barrel steels for several years, but I think finally switched all production over to nickel steel around 1900.
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Old March 14, 2013, 06:15 AM   #8
JT-AR-MG42
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That looks to be a very nice collectible rifle.

When you get a chance, maybe take a photo of the top of the bolt showing the from the chamber to the hammer checkering and maybe one of the bolt face.

Uncommon for one from the B.P. era to have that finish wear and show no signs of pitting around the breech from either powder or primers or any wood shrinkage.

The front sight appears to be a correct Rocky Mountain that was either repaired or modified to suit the owner.

I would be tempted to pull the gun apart to see if the action, hammer, and lever showed any indication of having been case colored. Maybe it is the lighting, but the gun, especially the for-end cap, has that look to me.

Let's hear back with what the LGS says after a look.

JT
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Old March 14, 2013, 09:58 AM   #9
PetahW
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Unless you get a Cody letter to the contrary, the Winchester Polishing Room records indicate your Model 1894 Rifle in .32-40 was made around May of 1895.

FWIW, the first Model 1894 Rifle made in .32-40 was SN692, on Dec 14, 1894.


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Old March 15, 2013, 10:50 PM   #10
Lucas McCain
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I'm not totally sure, but I don't think the sights are original. The front should be a longer,sharper knife blade with no bead The rear sight should be a finer sight and the elevator was a double one with small notchs that engaged both sides of the sight.
It is a common problem with old rifles. They were equipped with very fine sights for accuracy at longer ranges. They didn't have scopes so when the owners got older and there eyes got bad thats when the sights were changed out with after market sights such as Lyman or Marbles. They were coarser and easier to see. The originals ended up in a coffee cup in the cupboard.
Never the less the gun is very nice looking and will look good in your collection.
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Old March 16, 2013, 12:13 AM   #11
popsbrothers
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Thanks for all the information guys. I'm still in Modoc Co eradicating rodents. I should be home by Monday to take some more photos. Thanks for all the interest.
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Old March 16, 2013, 03:37 PM   #12
PetahW
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IMO, the rear sight looks like it's an original Winchester No.22E Rocky Mountain rear sight; and the front looks like it might be an optional Winchester No.23 Express front sight.



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Old March 18, 2013, 09:39 PM   #13
popsbrothers
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I'm back from squirrel hunting and almost rested.

JT- attached are the photos you requested.

Anyone have an estimate of the value? Is it worth the expense of a Cody letter?

thanks, pops
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Old March 18, 2013, 09:41 PM   #14
popsbrothers
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Dang, forgot the photos
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File Type: jpg hammer.jpg (70.8 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg winchester 021.jpg (89.2 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg winchester 017.jpg (93.5 KB, 37 views)
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Old March 19, 2013, 07:52 PM   #15
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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By looking at my 32-40 in comparison. Sorry having to say: Your front and rear sights look to have been replaced. Otherwise the appearance of your rifle is indeed very nice for its age. If the bore is dark (rusty looking) your rifle will indeed loose some value. But keep in mind your rifle indeed has value being a 100 plus years old and its a true blue Winchester too boot. Out of curiosity. Please come back and let us know what your appraiser has to say about your rifle. I for one would appreciate that effort Sir.

#7 thread is spot on with his info. (As it would be in your best interest to consider re-reading his thread.)
Regards,
S/S
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Old March 20, 2013, 05:05 AM   #16
JT-AR-MG42
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That gun really looks like a champ to me. Everything on it says it has been cared for during the 100+ years it has been around. Stored to keep the wood tight, no fouled up screw heads, and most importantly, cleaned after use.

I'm not up on the early rifle sights for 94s. The front still looks like the knife blade Rocky mountain base that has been repaired. No biggie at all and it won't really negatively affect the value of an early 4 digit in that nice of shape.

Based on the clean action photos, I'll bet the bore is in similar shape.

If it were mine, after a detailed diss-assembly to clean (not with any abrasives of course), I would slug it. If it is still tight, I'd shoot a 30/1 GC with 18/20 grs. of 5744. No filler.
If the bore is large, a 40/1 plain base.
That load has never let me down in both the .30 and .32WCF.

Letter it and let us hear back.

JT
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Old March 20, 2013, 11:05 AM   #17
popsbrothers
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Thanks for the comments JT and ss. I'm taking it in on Thursday for the appraisal and will post the results.
Pops
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Old March 31, 2013, 11:57 PM   #18
popsbrothers
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Here's the story on the appraisal. It appears the local gun expert likes to buy Winchesters. Rated the condition at 10% with a value of $1200 and offered me $900. Being a little suspect of the offer I waited a week until I had business in a neighboring town that has a respectable gunsmith. He rated the gun at 30 to 40% with a value of $1750 to $2000. He suggested I get a Cody letter. I've downloaded the forms but haven't sent it yet. I'll report back when I get the letter.
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Old April 1, 2013, 09:18 AM   #19
Mike Irwin
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10% normally means a gun that is non-functional, has badly damaged wood, the bore is pretty bad, etc.
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Old April 1, 2013, 01:41 PM   #20
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Maybe it is the pictures, but that gun looks to have very little original finish, so I am not sure the 10% is too far out of line, if we are talking only about percentage of original finish. I sure can't see 30-40%, although there are parts of the gun not pictured.

Jim
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Old April 1, 2013, 06:03 PM   #21
popsbrothers
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The gunsmith rated overall condition 30 to 40%. Your right about the bluing be 10%. Like I said in an earlier post I'm new to collecting and I need an education before putting numbers in print. Overall I'm happy with the gunsmiths evaluation.
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