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Old April 5, 2013, 01:39 PM   #76
Punisher_1
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With all these new laws and restrictions in the New England area it looks like the anti-gun folks are already in control there. What I'd like to know is why, on a topic of a constitutional right, the citizens don't get to vote on law proposals like this.
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Old April 5, 2013, 01:43 PM   #77
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I'd agree with that assessment, Punisher. In many of our major urban centers, the antis are in control.
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Old April 5, 2013, 04:57 PM   #78
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher 1
With all these new laws and restrictions in the New England area it looks like the anti-gun folks are already in control there. What I'd like to know is why, on a topic of a constitutional right, the citizens don't get to vote on law proposals like this.
Because, in theory, we have elected representatives to do that for us.

Unfortunately, the process has been corrupted beyond all recognition. Like the NY law, the new CT law was a backroom deal that was all worked out in secret. It was presented as a fait accompli to the full membership of the CT House and Senate late on Monday, for a vote on Wednesday. The bill was 139 pages long. Despite the fact that the Sandy Hook incident was an aberration, a one-of-a-kind event that CT had not seen in 350 years of its existence, and the event took place nearly four MONTHS ago, the legislative power-brokers presented the bill as "emergency" legislation and had it certified as such, which allowed them to railroad it through with NO public hearings on the actual language of the bill, and most of the usual legislative process for new laws suspended.

It was like Nancy Pelosi and Obamacare all over again: "We'll have to pass it to find out what it says."

I suppose I'm naive, but I don't believe that's the way the gentlemen who set up this country intended things to be done.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; April 7, 2013 at 07:09 AM.
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Old April 7, 2013, 01:13 AM   #79
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So I was just reading the law. I have a mini 14, no folding stock, so that is not an assault rifle. But it has a flash suppressor so it is an assault rifle, if the barrel is threaded. I just took a punch and removed the flash suppressor, so it is not an assault rifle. But if I don't fill the punch hole and keep the suppressor, it is an assault rifle.
Here is the law, or a lot of it. See if your weapon is on the list and then name it "Lucille" and it will be fine:

http://www.ct.gov/dps/lib/dps/specia...lt_weapons.pdf


"First they came for my neighbor because he murdered his wife with a frozen pork loin, and I said nothing. Then he called me to bail him out, and I said nothing. Then they asked me to testify and I said nothing. Then his 27 year old daughter came over in a bikini looking to be comforted, and I said nothing."

Oh, I could go on.
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Old April 7, 2013, 09:55 AM   #80
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Folks, I deleted several posts that were just complaints. Can we stay more on topic of CT?
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Old April 7, 2013, 03:29 PM   #81
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Looks like Conneticut has banned everything but a stock SKS/Garand without the bayonet or grenade launcher. They've even included the Spas 12! I can't even think of a crime where a person has used one.
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Old April 7, 2013, 06:53 PM   #82
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Shotgun impact

Starting with the new law:
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/TOB/S/201...160-R00-SB.htm
Sec. 23. (NEW) (Effective from passage) (a) As used in this section and section 24 of this act:

(1) "Large capacity magazine" means any firearm magazine, belt, drum, feed strip or similar device that has the capacity of, or can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition, but does not include: (A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than ten rounds of ammunition, (B) a .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device, (C) a tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm, or (D) a magazine that is permanently inoperable;
It seems as quite a few shotguns will fall under the "Large capacity magazine" restriction. This is due to the "or can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds" and the availablity of short rounds and/or mag tube extenders. Example http://www.brownells.com/magazines/s...57-111484.aspx

This will stop alot of common shotguns from being sold in CT and bump up the number of registered "Large capacity magazine".

How does the Heller "common use" help in killing the "large capacity magazine" part of the law?
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Old April 7, 2013, 06:55 PM   #83
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They've even included the Spas 12! I can't even think of a crime where a person has used one.
Or a Wilkinson Linda. What is the beef they have with that thing?

Of course, that's not the point. The idea is to set up a list. Once that list is in place, other pesky and unpopular weapons can be added later.

This way, you have it both ways: a ban on features or combinations of features, and an open list for stuff that may not have those features but can still be banned.
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Old April 7, 2013, 07:22 PM   #84
Aguila Blanca
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Originally Posted by Tom Servo
Of course, that's not the point. The idea is to set up a list. Once that list is in place, other pesky and unpopular weapons can be added later.
They don't have to add later. The language of the law covers the named firearms and functional equivalents. Lemme see if I can dredge up the actual language.

Found it. Link: http://cga.ct.gov/2013/TOB/S/2013SB-01160-R00-SB.htm

Lemme see if I can clean up the part we care about for this question. I think I have removed all the parts that were deleted (remember, this is a revision to Connecticut's existing AWB):

Quote:
(ii) A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon, as defined in subparagraph (A)(i) of this subdivision, or any combination of parts from which an assault weapon, as defined in subparagraph (A)(i) of this subdivision, may be rapidly assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person;

(B) Any of the following specified semiautomatic centerfire rifles, or copies or duplicates thereof with the capability of any such rifles, that were in production prior to or on the effective date of this section: (i) AK-47; (ii) AK-74; (iii) AKM; (iv) AKS-74U; (v) ARM; (vi) MAADI AK47; (vii) MAK90; (viii) MISR; (ix) NHM90 and NHM91; (x) Norinco 56, 56S, 84S and 86S; (xi) Poly Technologies AKS and AK47; (xii) SA 85; (xiii) SA 93; (xiv) VEPR; (xv) WASR-10; (xvi) WUM; (xvii) Rock River Arms LAR-47; (xviii) Vector Arms AK-47; (xix) AR-10; (xx) AR-15; (xxi) Bushmaster Carbon 15, Bushmaster XM15, Bushmaster ACR Rifles, Bushmaster MOE Rifles; (xxii) Colt Match Target Rifles; (xxiii) Armalite M15; (xxiv) Olympic Arms AR-15, A1, CAR, PCR, K3B, K30R, K16, K48, K8 and K9 Rifles; (xxv) DPMS Tactical Rifles; (xxvi) Smith and Wesson M&P15 Rifles; (xxvii) Rock River Arms LAR-15; (xxviii) Doublestar AR Rifles; (xxix) Barrett REC7; (xxx) Beretta Storm; (xxxi) Calico Liberty 50, 50 Tactical, 100, 100 Tactical, I, I Tactical, II and II Tactical Rifles; (xxxii) Hi-Point Carbine Rifles; (xxxiii) HK-PSG-1; (xxxiv) Kel-Tec Sub-2000, SU Rifles, and RFB; (xxxv) Remington Tactical Rifle Model 7615; (xxxvi) SAR-8, SAR-4800 and SR9; (xxxvii) SLG 95; (xxxviii) SLR 95 or 96; (xxxix) TNW M230 and M2HB; (xl) Vector Arms UZI; (xli) Galil and Galil Sporter; (xlii) Daewoo AR 100 and AR 110C; (xliii) Fabrique Nationale/FN 308 Match and L1A1 Sporter; (xliv) HK USC; (xlv) IZHMASH Saiga AK; (xlvi) SIG Sauer 551-A1, 556, 516, 716 and M400 Rifles; (xlvii) Valmet M62S, M71S and M78S; (xlviii) Wilkinson Arms Linda Carbine; and (xlix) Barrett M107A1;

(C) Any of the following specified semiautomatic pistols, or copies or duplicates thereof with the capability of any such pistols, that were in production prior to or on the effective date of this section: (i) Centurion 39 AK; (ii) Draco AK-47; (iii) HCR AK-47; (iv) IO Inc. Hellpup AK-47; (v) Mini-Draco AK-47; (vi) Yugo Krebs Krink; (vii) American Spirit AR-15; (viii) Bushmaster Carbon 15; (ix) Doublestar Corporation AR; (x) DPMS AR-15; (xi) Olympic Arms AR-15; (xii) Rock River Arms LAR 15; (xiii) Calico Liberty III and III Tactical Pistols; (xiv) Masterpiece Arms MPA Pistols and Velocity Arms VMA Pistols; (xv) Intratec TEC-DC9 and AB-10; (xvi) Colefire Magnum; (xvii) German Sport 522 PK and Chiappa Firearms Mfour-22; (xviii) DSA SA58 PKP FAL; (xix) I.O. Inc. PPS-43C; (xx) Kel-Tec PLR-16 Pistol; (xxi) Sig Sauer P516 and P556 Pistols; and (xxii) Thompson TA5 Pistols;

(D) Any of the following semiautomatic shotguns, or copies or duplicates thereof with the capability of any such shotguns, that were in production prior to or on the effective date of this section: All IZHMASH Saiga 12 Shotguns;

(E) Any semiautomatic firearm regardless of whether such firearm is listed in subparagraphs (A) to (D), inclusive, of this subdivision, and regardless of the date such firearm was produced, that meets the following criteria:

(i) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least one of the following:

(I) A folding or telescoping stock;

(II) Any grip of the weapon, including a pistol grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other stock, the use of which would allow an individual to grip the weapon, resulting in any finger on the trigger hand in addition to the trigger finger being directly below any portion of the action of the weapon when firing;

(III) A forward pistol grip;

(IV) A flash suppressor; or

(V) A grenade launcher or flare launcher; or

(ii) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the ability to accept more than ten rounds; or

(iii) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than thirty inches; or

(iv) A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least one of the following:

(I) An ability to accept a detachable ammunition magazine that attaches [to the pistol] at some location outside of the pistol grip;

(II) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward pistol grip or silencer;

(III) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to fire the firearm without being burned, except a slide that encloses the barrel; or

(IV) A second hand grip; or

(v) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the ability to accept more than ten rounds;

(vi) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:

(I) A folding or telescoping stock; and

(II) Any grip of the weapon, including a pistol grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other stock, the use of which would allow an individual to grip the weapon, resulting in any finger on the trigger hand in addition to the trigger finger being directly below any portion of the action of the weapon when firing; or

(vii) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine;

(viii) A shotgun with a revolving cylinder; or

(F) A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon, as defined in [subdivision (3) of this subsection] any provision of subparagraphs (B) to (E), inclusive, of this subdivision, or any combination of parts from which an assault weapon, as defined in [subdivision (3) of this subsection] any provision of subparagraphs (B) to (E), inclusive, of this subdivision, may be [rapidly] assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person;

(2) "Assault weapon" does not include (A) any firearm modified to render it permanently inoperable, or (B) a part or any combination of parts of an assault weapon, that are not assembled as an assault weapon, when in the possession of a licensed gun dealer, as defined in subsection (d) of section 53-202f, as amended by this act, or a gunsmith who is in the licensed gun dealer's employ, for the purposes of servicing or repairing lawfully possessed assault weapons under sections 53-202a to 53-202k, inclusive, as amended by this act;

(3) "Action of the weapon" means the part of the firearm that loads, fires and ejects a cartridge, which part includes, but is not limited to, the upper and lower receiver, charging handle, forward assist, magazine release and shell deflector;

(4) "Detachable magazine" means an ammunition feeding device that can be removed without disassembling the firearm action;

(5) "Firearm" means a firearm, as defined in section 53a-3;

(6) "Forward pistol grip" means any feature capable of functioning as a grip that can be held by the nontrigger hand;

(7) "Lawfully possesses" means, with respect to an assault weapon described in any provision of subparagraphs (B) to (F), inclusive, of this subdivision, (A) actual possession that is lawful under sections 53-202b to 53-202k, as amended by this act, or (B) constructive possession pursuant to a lawful purchase transacted prior to the effective date of this section, regardless of whether the assault weapon was delivered to the purchaser prior to the effective date of this section;

(8) "Pistol grip" means a grip or similar feature that can function as a grip for the trigger hand; and

(9) "Second hand grip" means a grip or similar feature that can function as a grip that is additional to the trigger hand grip.
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Old April 7, 2013, 07:36 PM   #85
Tom Servo
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They don't have to add later. The language of the law covers the named firearms and functional equivalents.
I understand the part about derivatives. We've lived through that mess once.

My point was, imagine something like Kel Tec's KSG. It's not listed, and it's not really derivative of anything on the list. If one is used in a high-profile crime, or if a politician just gets his knickers in a schnitz, they can simply add it to the list.
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Old April 7, 2013, 07:46 PM   #86
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So if some bird hunter looses it and blows away his wife and her bridge circle, they CT legislature could add double barrel bird guns to the "assualt weapons" list?
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Old April 7, 2013, 09:38 PM   #87
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPEMack618
So if some bird hunter looses it and blows away his wife and her bridge circle, they CT legislature could add double barrel bird guns to the "assualt weapons" list?
Yes, but they could have done that anyway. Remember, CT has had an AWB since 1993. The CT AWB didn't go away when the Federal AWB expired in 2004. The list I cited above isn't the complete list of banned firearms in CT -- it's only the new "evil" weapons that are being added by the new legislation. The old list already had 60-something specific firearms listed.
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Old April 8, 2013, 11:19 AM   #88
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Can this be reversed? New Gun Laws in CT?

Also can you have 10 in a magazine and one in the chamber? Or is the new law , you can't carry a gun with more than 10 rounds?

Last edited by DonJulio; April 8, 2013 at 12:43 PM.
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Old April 8, 2013, 03:49 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJulio
Also can you have 10 in a magazine and one in the chamber? Or is the new law , you can't carry a gun with more than 10 rounds?
Here is what the law says. I'll highlight the parts pertaining to the 10-round limit in red boldface.
Quote:
(f) Any person who declared possession of a large capacity magazine under this section may possess the large capacity magazine only under the following conditions:

(1) At that person's residence;

(2) At that person's place of business or other property owned by that person, provided such large capacity magazine contains not more than ten bullets;

(3) While on the premises of a target range of a public or private club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets;

(4) While on a target range which holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range;

(5) While on the premises of a licensed shooting club;

(6) While transporting the large capacity magazine between any of the places set forth in this subsection, or to any licensed gun dealer, provided (A) such large capacity magazine contains not more than ten bullets, and (B) the large capacity magazine is transported in the manner required for an assault weapon under subdivision (2) of subsection (a) of section 53-202f of the general statutes, as amended by this act; or

(7) Pursuant to a valid permit to carry a pistol or revolver, provided such large capacity magazine (A) is within a pistol or revolver that was lawfully possessed by the person prior to the effective date of this section, (B) does not extend beyond the bottom of the pistol grip, and (C) contains not more than ten bullets.

(g) Any person who violates the provisions of subsection (f) of this section shall be guilty of a class C misdemeanor.
The ten-round limitation does not apply in the locations described in Subsections (1) and (3) through (5) [Correction!]. IMHO this implies that it is permissible to load the magazine to full capacity in these locations. Take note, however, that the law specifically differentiates between a person's "residence" and a "place of business or other property owned by that person".

The law never explicitly addresses a round in the chamber, only the rounds carried in the magazine. In my opinion- "not a lawyer" disclaimers apply-10+1 pistol carry is implicitly allowed (with the proper permit of course), whether or not the magazine can hold in excess of 10 rounds.

Also, take note that violating this section is a misdemeanor offense, as opposed to a felony offense like almost every other potential violation of the new law.

[EDIT TO ADD:] Despite the fact that carrying a pistol with an LCM in a 10+1 condition is apparently lawful with the proper permit, if I were carrying in CT, I would probably err on the side of caution and carry 10rd mags to avoid potential legal hassles if I were to slip up and accidentally load extra rounds in a restricted LCM. Furthermore, if I were traveling to the range, I would transport my LCMs empty and load them once I arrive.
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Last edited by carguychris; April 8, 2013 at 04:09 PM. Reason: Correction!
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Old April 8, 2013, 04:20 PM   #90
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Quote:
if I were traveling to the range, I would transport my LCMs empty and load them once I arrive.

If I were traveling to the range, I would keep driving west...
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Old April 8, 2013, 04:34 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musher
If I were traveling to the range, I would keep driving west...
Bad move. Those ten-round magazines will get you in trouble in New York. And you can't drive west from Connecticut without hitting New York.
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Old April 8, 2013, 04:52 PM   #92
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wow. Talk about being behind the lines. Hadn't really thought about it. If it's not legal in CT, you're not protected by FOPA either.

Might have to escape by sea.
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Old April 8, 2013, 07:22 PM   #93
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The 10+1 issue is kind of funny...Am I right in thinking that you could load ten rounds in a 15 round magazine, but that you couldn't chamber said round by first placing 11 rounds in the magazine? Would you have to place 10 in the magazine and load one by hand to be in compliance at all times?

Criminal 1: "Whoa, buddy, what are you doing?"
Criminal 2: "I'm loading 11 rounds so I can chamber one."
Criminal 1: "Bad idea man, you won't be in compliance with the law!"
Criminal 2: "Whoa. Thanks, that was close."

Criminals proceed to enter the bank...
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Old April 8, 2013, 08:10 PM   #94
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So after the lunatic who shot Gifford and also killed many, did they outlawed the Glock 19?
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Old April 8, 2013, 08:24 PM   #95
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Let's stay relevant.
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Old April 9, 2013, 01:34 AM   #96
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Obama's at it again

Looks like Obama has thrown yet another speech to gather support for his questionable push on gun control.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22075192
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Old April 9, 2013, 09:28 AM   #97
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This thread was supposed to be about CT laws - but it has become a general one of complaints about antis.

Thus, one more off topic post and it's shut with an infraction. Sorry but that's life.
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Old April 9, 2013, 08:57 PM   #98
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I've heard (friend of a friend of a friend kind of deal) that this is still being contested, despite being signed into law by Malloy last week...I don't know on what level or by whom, though.

Anyone else have any more info? My limited ability to search from work hasn't turned anything up yet...
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Old April 9, 2013, 09:57 PM   #99
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I know someone who is a member of the Connecticut Citizens' Defense League. Their monthly meeting is tonight. I'll try to get in contact with him and ask for a sit rep from the meeting.
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Old April 9, 2013, 10:13 PM   #100
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The CCDL is my source as well...talking to my buddy tomorrow. Guess one of us will update here once we have some idea of what's going on.
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