The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 30, 2013, 12:11 AM   #1
WWII
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2012
Posts: 11
Re rifle a barrel for Spanish Mauser

Hey guys.

I have what I have identified as a 1916 Spanish Mauser.

Problem is that it can't hit the broad side of a white tail buck because the rifling in the barrel is shot because it sat in my grandfathers cabinet too long with attention. I want this gun restored because it is a blast to shoot, it just can't hit anything.

How much am I looking at for a re rifle job and what should I look for in someone that does it?

Has sentimental value to me obviously and I want to restore it to its former glory. Grandfather used to hunt with it.

Last edited by WWII; March 30, 2013 at 12:51 AM.
WWII is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 12:19 AM   #2
WWII
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2012
Posts: 11
I guess I should say also, I am not interested in a new caliber and new bolt and all that. Surprisingly the rest of the gun is in great shape sans the rifling being out.
WWII is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 12:50 AM   #3
WWII
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2012
Posts: 11
Nevermind it fellas. Just found a thread describing the same Spanish Mauser as mine. A circle with a cross stamp on various parts.

Maybe I need to let it die and put it on the wall.

Dang it. Really would still like to know if re rifling is still possible. Would love to have something fun to shoot at the range other than my Glock 33 and .22. The gun has some great power, but just needs that rifling redone to be decent.

Last edited by WWII; March 30, 2013 at 12:58 AM.
WWII is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 01:15 AM   #4
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 18,280
Re-rifling is not really a viable option. The better option would be to put a new barrel (or at least a barrel in better condition) on the rifle, assuming you could find someone to do the work.

That said, if your grandfather used it to hunt and with satisfactory results, I'm surprised that the rifling is gone. I would have expected most of the rifling wear/damage to have developed during its military service, not as a hunting rifle.

What ammunition have you been shooting in it?
__________________
Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 01:57 AM   #5
tahoe2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 13, 2011
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 517
WWII, I am currently waiting for a Adam's & Bennett barrel to come back in stock ($87.99), for my 1931 Spanish mauser (1916 pattern) in 7x57 mauser.
I have also been told to not waste my time & money.
But the rifle shoots great and is accurate, it's just that the chamber is way oversized (.010-.011) and splitting cases.
Some are of the opinion that these old rifles should not be used anymore because they only have two lugs (unlike the 98's three lug system).
I believe as long as you keep the pressures at or below the original loading pressures (around 44,000 psi = 37,000 cup) just barely above a 30-30;
that they will serve you well. that's 140 grns @ 2600fps, 150grns @ 2500fps, or 160grns @ 2400fps.
Numrich has used original Spanish rifle & carbine barrels (fair to very good) at reasonable prices-less than $100 bucks.
Good luck !
tahoe2 is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 06:46 AM   #6
WWII
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2012
Posts: 11
Thanks for the replies guys.

John, it has been a few years since I have shot it. I took it hunting on my first time out and missed an 8 pointer 3 times. I went directly to a guy with a laser sighter and let him do his thing to sight it in. When he called me back to come get the weapon, he told me it was impossible to sight it becuase the refiling had worn out of it.

Maybe I can just get a new barrel as Tahoe has suggested.
WWII is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 07:14 AM   #7
m&p45acp10+1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,307
I would suggest having the crown checked. I have seen a rifle that would barely hit paper at 25 yards before recrowning, after having the recrown done it was shooting 3 MOA at 100 yards.
__________________
No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.
m&p45acp10+1 is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 07:33 AM   #8
WWII
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2012
Posts: 11
Thanks for that tip on the crown. I'll check.

I should do a really good clean job on it. Barrel hasn't been cleaned even before I shot it last, so a good cleaning won't hurt. Then I should take it down to the range to see what I am dealing with.
WWII is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 07:47 AM   #9
WWII
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2012
Posts: 11
Ill post up some pics later of the barrel so you guys can see it.
WWII is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 10:04 AM   #10
PetahW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2008
Posts: 4,679
If the rifleing's worn just near the muzzle, as from improper cleaning, another less-expensive cure is to have the muzzle counter-bored somewhat larger, until good rifleing is reached, then a new crown applied at that point downbore.




.
PetahW is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 12:04 PM   #11
taylorce1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 5,428
Well your rifle can still be serviceable but there aren't very many common cartridges that will work in your action. You'll need to reload as about the only cartridges I can think of aren't all that easy to find outside of gun stores and most won't be found at Wal-Mart. However te short list of what can be used in your action is .250-3000 Savage, .257 Roberts, 6.5X55, 7X57, .300 Savage, 8X57, 9X57 or .358X57, .35 Rem, and 9.3X57. There are many more that you can do if you are reloading and keep pressures low.

They are great rifles for shooting cast boolits out of as well. Removing the military bolt shroud and adding a commercial one will protect your eyes better from hot gases in the case of a ruptured cave or pierced primer. You'll need to pick up a new trigger with a side safety as the new bolt shroud removes the old safety.
__________________
NRA Life Member
The Truth About Guns
taylorce1 is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 12:07 PM   #12
Wyosmith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2010
Location: Shoshoni Wyoming
Posts: 1,221
What state are you in WWll?
Wyosmith is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 12:39 PM   #13
WWII
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2012
Posts: 11
I am in the great state of GA! Atlanta to be exact.
WWII is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 02:11 PM   #14
Wyosmith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2010
Location: Shoshoni Wyoming
Posts: 1,221
I was hoping you'd be in a state where I knew a gunsmith I could recommend, but alas, I don't personally know of any in Ga.

I made a new barrel for a 1916 Spanish Mauser that my wife had years ago. It was a 308 with a rusted bore and I replaced the barrel.
I set it up with a ramp front sight and a Williams peep rear sight. She could dance a pop can with that gun almost every time at 200 yards and she killed a few deer with it.

We loaded the ammo to the bottom of the recommended scale with 150 grain bullets so it was more like a 300 savage ballisticly, but there was no deer or black bear that would run off after they were hit by it. It shot VERY well.

If the bore on your gun is bad, I’d recommend you do the same thing. A re-barrel job is not too costly and you would not be sorry. In fact if you don’t load your own ammo you could have it rebarreled and chambered in 300 Savage, and use factory ammo and the old Spanish Mauser would hold it just fine.
Wyosmith is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 02:43 PM   #15
WWII
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2012
Posts: 11
So, I just clean the barrel thorougly with a copper wire brush, rem oil, patch and snake. After doing this and re-inspecting the barrel, I can now see very defined swirling rifling inside the barrel! Before it looked smooth, but now after it's first cleaning in likely more than a decade, there appears to be rifling underneath the dust and what not. I definitely didn't clean it before shooting it the last time and that numbskull who told me the rifling was out probably didn't bother to tell me to clean it. I was a 17 year old kid at that time, so he probably just didn't bother with me.

Anyways, I am encouraged. Should I be? The rifling to me looks every bit as defined as my glock .357 sig rifling. All the way down the barrel. Can't believe it took me this long to just think to clean the barrel really good.
WWII is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 03:32 PM   #16
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,221
WWII,

If the rifling is gone only at the muzzle, then the counterboring suggestion applies. If the rifling seems to be gone all the way down the bore, then you'll likely find it all magically reappears when the bore is subjected to a proper cleaning. Guns that have not been properly maintained can develop enough carbon and crud build-up to fill the grooves. Especially if they were fired with corrosively primed ammunition and not properly cleaned afterward.

Something that I find loosens carbon and rust well is Gunzilla. Just be aware it can take awhile. If I have a heavy build up like yours, I'll let the bore stay wet with Gunzilla for a week between patching and bronze brushing to see if carbon or rust comes out. If so, I repeat and keep repeating until it stops coming out. It can take several weeks for the carbon to stop coming out.

If you are less patient and don't mind using a product that can hurt finishes, then get some Slip 2000 Carbon Killer, plug the bore, fill it with the stuff and let it sit 15 minutes, drain the stuff back into its container (it's still good) and patch and brush it out. Repeat until you stop getting carbon coming out.

Once the carbon is gone, you'll want to flush the bore with boiling water to remove the Carbon Killer or with a solvent like denatured alcohol or Gun Scrubber to remove the Gunzilla. Then apply KG-12 to remove the copper. I put a sloppy wet patch through and let it sit 15 minutes and repeat once. That usually gets it all. It doesn't turn blue or green—just gets darker orange brown—as it picks up copper, but its fast and its capacity for copper is enormous. If you are unsure of your results, you can patch out the KG-12 and apply a cleaner that changes color in the presence of copper just to see if you are done yet.

It may take more patches, but another product that will remove the copper and which will give a strong blue color change is Boretech Eliminator. It also loosens carbon somewhat. It is what I use for general bore cleaning. Just be aware it will turn a patch blue by attacking a copper jag, so use a plastic jag with it unless you want to invest in one of their special alloy Proof Positive jags.

This may all seem like a lot to go through, but the Rem Oil you are using will let you get some of the carbon the way a penetrating oil would, but it won't be a thorough job and it's not likely to do anything to copper jacket deposits.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member
Unclenick is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 08:56 PM   #17
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 18,280
It's worth noting that sporterized guns were often rebarrelled when they were sporterized, and not always in the native caliber. It's probably worthwhile to take it to a gunsmith who can verify what ammunition that the rifle is chambered for.

If you can see distinct rifling all the way from one end of the barrel to the other, but the gun won't shoot accurately, an ammo mismatch could be the culprit.

Finally, if the gun has been sitting in a closet for years, it needs to be taken to the range and shot on paper to verify point of impact and accuracy with the load in question before it is taken hunting.
__________________
Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old April 1, 2013, 08:32 AM   #18
Slamfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Posts: 4,042
I posted information on those Spanish Mausers here:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=521023

I really don't recommend putting money into the action as you should not load it beyond 40,000 psia and it won't be worth the money you put into it.

But, if you rebarrel, I recommend keeping it 7mm Mauser as that was the original cartridge and it is best to keep the things in the original cartridge as it will most likely feed more reliabily.
__________________
If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.
Slamfire is offline  
Old April 2, 2013, 09:13 AM   #19
wachtelhund1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 4, 2007
Posts: 123
I've been trying to get a Spanish Mauser from a friend for seveal year. It is just rusting away in his garage. Several years ago, I picked up a really clean Jap T-38 in 6.5x.257 for $150.00. It had been sporterized, scope bases installed, blued and had a very nice Bishop Monte carlo stock with great wood detail. Barrel was original, but turned down. Due to the cost of dies, I immediately rechambered it to 6.5X57 Mauser, since I already had a reamer and head space guages. The barrel shot 100 grain bullets okay, but anything heavier the groups opened up to more than my liking. So, I rebarreled it with an $89.00 Adams & Bennett barrel blank from Midway. It is now shooting less than 1" groups with 100, 120 and 130 grain bullets. My gunsmith charged me $75.00 to chamber, thread, cut and crown and head space the barrel. I'm pleased with the way it turned out.

Before checkering:


After checkering,

Last edited by wachtelhund1; April 2, 2013 at 02:00 PM.
wachtelhund1 is offline  
Old April 2, 2013, 10:33 AM   #20
taylorce1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 5,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamfire
I posted information on those Spanish Mausers here:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=521023

I really don't recommend putting money into the action as you should not load it beyond 40,000 psia and it won't be worth the money you put into it.

But, if you rebarrel, I recommend keeping it 7mm Mauser as that was the original cartridge and it is best to keep the things in the original cartridge as it will most likely feed more reliabily.
I kind of disagree about it not being worth it to rebarrel. I did an old bubba sporter Spanish Mauser into .300 Savage. Barrel cost me $45 used A&B small ring prefit in .30-06. Then a new bolt handle, chambering, safety, Bold trigger, speedlock kit, low swing safety and duracoating cost me about $250 more. I did the stock work myself with a Richard's Microfit that cost $50 off their inventory list. I picked up the rifle that I used for $45 that had been drilled and tapped for a two piece base crooked, had an old military stock off a M98 modified for the barreled action to fit in, barrel had been cut down to 17" and beveled at the end with against a grinder, and there was no crown on the barrel.

The reason I got it done so cheap is I found a lot of used parts, and a gunsmithing student to do the work. I would of had him do the stock work as well but he didn't have that work going on in his class for another six months. It isn't an amazing piece of work, but it will shot around 1-1.25" with most loads at 100 yards it seems to favor 165 grain bullets with a couple of loads around .75" at 100. No work was needed to facilitate feeding, and it made the rifle functional again for around $400 without scope.











Making a functional rifle again out of something that wasn't shootable wasn't money wasted IMO.
__________________
NRA Life Member
The Truth About Guns
taylorce1 is offline  
Old April 8, 2013, 08:41 AM   #21
Slamfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Posts: 4,042
It is a very nice looking rifle. If the labor was not free you could have easily added another $400 to the cost.
__________________
If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.
Slamfire is offline  
Old April 8, 2013, 12:24 PM   #22
taylorce1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 5,428
Quote:
If the labor was not free you could have easily added another $400 to the cost.
My guess is I'd have added about $200 more to the total cost if I had to do it myself instead of finding a gun smithing student to do the work. There are a lot of things a guy can do for himself if he chooses to do so and has the time and patience to do it. If you are just swapping barrels it doesn't take a lot of specialized tools to do so unless you are going to blueprint the whole action.

A hobbyist can build a barrel vise, buy an action wrench, and rent the reamers and gages and install a pre-fit short chamber barrel pretty easily on a Mauser rifle. There are places that will weld on your bolt handle for around $40. The only thing I probably would have paid a gun smith to do was to install the one piece base and the speed lock kit.
__________________
NRA Life Member
The Truth About Guns
taylorce1 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11190 seconds with 9 queries