The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 15, 2013, 04:14 PM   #1
MilJunkie
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2013
Posts: 8
Enfield No4 MKI feature ident. help plz

I recently purchased my first Enfield, it is a No4 MKI (F) dated 11/48 PF616XX.

I was wondering about the grooves on the upper handguard (which seem to improve grip) and had not seen them anywhere until I came across a post here with a photo from madcratebuilder, which has the same grooves.
(Mine is not a sniper)



I thought they were some bubba job, but now I am not sure, and I thought someone might tell me which units these appeared on?

Last edited by MilJunkie; April 15, 2013 at 04:25 PM.
MilJunkie is offline  
Old April 15, 2013, 04:50 PM   #2
davery25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 300
Don't quote me but I believe those are just on the American made Savages. The British and Aussie ones don't have them. The New Zealand ones might
davery25 is offline  
Old April 15, 2013, 04:57 PM   #3
MilJunkie
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2013
Posts: 8
It is British made (Fazakerly) and the Main stock is F marked, so maybe the handguard is not matching? The bolt is later S/N than the rifle, so not everything is original, but most are F or Crown marked.
MilJunkie is offline  
Old April 15, 2013, 07:15 PM   #4
madcratebuilder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2007
Location: Northern Orygun
Posts: 4,868
Lower hand guards were made by sub-contractors. Some used grooves, some did not. The grooved version is more common on Canadian and US made No4's but the Brit's did produce grooved lower hand guards. It's not a linear thing, just haphazard. Either smooth or grooved is considered correct.
madcratebuilder is offline  
Old April 15, 2013, 07:32 PM   #5
MilJunkie
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2013
Posts: 8


Here is the portion I am talking about. Sorry about the photo, I will get some better ones out, I think you can see enough of the stamping there as well
MilJunkie is offline  
Old April 16, 2013, 07:42 AM   #6
wogpotter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2004
Posts: 3,047
The grooves served 2 purposes. They allowed a better grip when bayonet fighting with cold, wet, muddy hands. They also allowed you a better grip when assuming or standing from prone with the same cold, wet, muddy hands.

Appearance seems utterly random, with the exception that I've never seen grooved blond wood. I've had a '43 with the grooves, a '42 without, & a blond '55 without.
__________________
Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”?

Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”
wogpotter is offline  
Old April 16, 2013, 07:58 AM   #7
madcratebuilder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2007
Location: Northern Orygun
Posts: 4,868
Quote:
Appearance seems utterly random, with the exception that I've never seen grooved blond wood. I've had a '43 with the grooves, a '42 without, & a blond '55 without.
I vaguely recall a thread at Gunboards about the grooved vs non grooved. No one could post a pic of grooved Beech wood guards. One or two claimed to have seen them at one time, I never have. I don't recall ever seeing a MkII with grooves (original).
madcratebuilder is offline  
Old April 16, 2013, 09:52 AM   #8
MilJunkie
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2013
Posts: 8
Thanks all!
MilJunkie is offline  
Old April 16, 2013, 12:23 PM   #9
wogpotter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2004
Posts: 3,047
Yeah, me neither. I've been looking seriously for a few years & even posted WTB ads without sucess.

(Just you watch, some bright spark is gonna gouge a few up with a Dremel cutoff wheel & try to sell them as "rare, collectable" now!)
__________________
Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”?

Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”
wogpotter is offline  
Old April 16, 2013, 08:04 PM   #10
krinko
Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2009
Posts: 67
No need for the Dremel.
I am busy with my drains and a very good plumber this evening, so no photo, BUT...

I have grooved Beech handguards on a 1941 BSA and a 1943 Fazakerley.
I will put up photos on Gunboards LE Forum in a dedicated thread later this week.
-----krinko
krinko is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 08:09 PM   #11
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,079
they are just a random occurence as far as I've seen. my Savage made no4 MK1* is all parts matching and does not have the grooves so even on lend/lease rifles they were hit or miss use.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old April 21, 2013, 07:15 PM   #12
gwpercle
Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2012
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Posts: 83
The 303 Enfield I have is a Birmingham Small Arms 1942 dated, No.4 MK I ,it has dark wood, all numbers matching and has a grooved upper handguard.

I had never thought about the grooves as I had assumed they all were grooved. Will have to start paying attention to that detail.

Gary
gwpercle is offline  
Old April 24, 2013, 12:33 AM   #13
Ignition Override
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2008
Posts: 1,774
From "Lee-Enfield No. 4 and No. 5 Rifles", by Charles Stratton:
Rear handguard, Second variation: "four long. grasping grooves, about 7 1/4" long...".

Both first and second var. rear handguards have been observed on No. 4 Mk 1 and Mark 1* of Brit., Can. and US manufacture.

The grooved handguards are "found most often on Savage-manu. rifles".
Both grooved and non-grooved are found on rifles produced in the same factories during the same time period.
"Evidently, the two (S and L) factories traded wood fairly frequently.."
Ignition Override is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08799 seconds with 9 queries