The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 31, 2013, 05:10 AM   #1
TheBear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 11, 2011
Posts: 295
single shot rifles accuracy

hows accuracy of those H&R single shot rifles compared to bolt action rifles in general? A buddy has bought one a year ago (Ultra hunter in .223rem) and now hes claiming its just as accurate as any .223rem bolt action rifle...

can a break barrel design be as accurate as a bolt action?
TheBear is offline  
Old March 31, 2013, 05:59 AM   #2
eastbank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 7, 2008
Location: pa.
Posts: 994
i had one in .357 mag and could not get it to shoot better than 4 " groups at 100yds no matter what i fed it or what glass i mounted on it. it got traded off pretty quick. my marlin lever action in .357 mag will do 2" or better at 100yds. eastbank.
eastbank is offline  
Old March 31, 2013, 07:03 AM   #3
Backwoodsboy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2012
Location: Western, Ny
Posts: 189
I have a .243 handi I topped with a red field 3-9x40. It will easily shoot sub moa at. 100 yds if I do my part.
__________________
"Si vis pacem, para bellum". If you want peace, Prepare for war!!!!
Backwoodsboy is offline  
Old March 31, 2013, 09:04 AM   #4
hooligan1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2010
Location: Independence Missouri
Posts: 3,246
My #2 son,(yeah he don't like the moniker)has one with three different barrels, a .223 remington, 45-70 Gov., and .270 winchester, overall these are pretty accurate, the .270 barrel is very picky about is diet, but he found a pet load for the .223 barrel, which is 55 grain Btips from Nosler, and 748 powder. The 45-70 shoots sub moa at 100 yds with two different commercial loads and he hasn't started the handload process for that barrel,,,, overall they're nice but heavy, I really love that 45-70, it has a Pentax 4x and it's fun to shoot.
__________________
Thanks for coming!
hooligan1 is offline  
Old March 31, 2013, 12:20 PM   #5
603Country
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2011
Location: Thornton, Texas
Posts: 2,203
A few months ago I worked up loads for my Dad's thick barreled Handi-rifle, which is now in the hands of some of his great grandkids. They wanted to hunt pigs and deer with the 223. I shot it quite a bit and it shot pretty good with the Nosler Partition load that I worked up, but precision is limited by the heavy creepy trigger. With a good trigger it just might shoot as well as a bolt gun.
603Country is offline  
Old March 31, 2013, 06:52 PM   #6
Mike38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2009
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 1,147
I have a NEF Handi Rifle which is basically the same as the H&R. With my reloads it will shoot 0.44 inch groups at 100 yards. So they can be every bit as accurate as a bolt action of the same price range.
Mike38 is offline  
Old March 31, 2013, 11:56 PM   #7
bacardisteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2006
Location: maryland
Posts: 373
I have one of the H&R ultra rifles in 450 marlin and it shoots cloverleafs at 100yds with buffalo bore ammo. They can be just as accurate as a bolt action.
__________________
Kill em all and let God sort em out! USAF
bacardisteve is offline  
Old April 1, 2013, 08:59 PM   #8
olddav
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2008
Location: Lower Alabama
Posts: 399
I have one in .223 and it was nothing to brag about until I started loading and shooting 63 grain bullet, now it will shoot 1 to 1.25 inch groups. That's good enough for hunting.
__________________
Never beat your head against the wall with out a helmet
olddav is offline  
Old April 1, 2013, 09:26 PM   #9
TMD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2011
Posts: 469
Just as accurate as any other average quality barrel.
TMD is offline  
Old April 1, 2013, 09:44 PM   #10
Bamashooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 12, 2010
Posts: 1,708
Ive had my handi-rifle in .243 for several years now. Its topped with a Burris FFII scope and the only bullet ever shot out of it is remington cor-lokt 100gr psp. The last time I shot it for groups it shot a 1.25'' group at 100yrds. Less than $500 for the gun and scope and it shoots near moa, I'll take it.
Bamashooter is offline  
Old April 2, 2013, 07:46 AM   #11
Doyle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Starkville, MS (new to MS)
Posts: 4,663
Quote:
Just as accurate as any other average quality barrel.
Maybe. The barrels aren't the issue. The biggest two accuracy killers with single shots are the hinge and headspace. Any wiggle in the hinge will translate into bigger groups. This is why Encore users shell out the money for oversized or adjustable hinge pins.

The other issue is headspace. A single-shot is different from a bolt action in the way it headspaces. In a bolt action, the base of the cartridge is held tight to the bolt with the claw extractor. The headspace is the distance between the cartridge shoulder and the end of the chamber. Very simple.

In a single-shot, you've got that same shoulder-to-chamber space but you've also got another variable. That being the distance between the primer/cartridge face and the receiver face. That extra distance can vary SIGNIFICANTLY from gun to gun.
Doyle is online now  
Old April 2, 2013, 03:27 PM   #12
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 5,784
As a rule a bolt rifle will beat one most of the time. There are exceptions, but you won't see any break action single shots used in serious competition.
jmr40 is offline  
Old April 3, 2013, 07:00 AM   #13
Picher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,719
I'd buy a bolt-action like the Ruger American before getting a cheaper break-open rifle. Break-opens tend to shoot to different POIs, depending on rest or hold. The ones I've tried group around 1 1/2" and tend to string shots vertically.

My used .243 Win had an auto ejector (they don't anymore) and handloads would stick in the chamber and a real bitc_ to get out without a cleaning rod. Shooting one from the bench to sight-in, like all break-opens, is a pain.

The Handi-Rifles are quite heavy for their size, due to the 12-Gauge size of the receiver. Barrels are very meaty at the receiver. Scopes should be mounted with high rings to leave room to cock the hammer and to clear some variable power rings, even with the hammer extension.
__________________
People are like rifles. Some are tried and true, having great eyes, personality, and fun to be with. Others never seem to hit the mark with you. Still others go off half-cocked. Still, it's nice to know most of them.
Picher is offline  
Old April 3, 2013, 03:03 PM   #14
BumbleBug
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2013
Location: Near Heart of Texas
Posts: 421
Most of my experience with break-open rifles is with the T/C Contender Carbine. My answer to your question is yes, in-general, a break-open can be as accurate as an average bolt gun. That being said, I also want to add that the break-open is more particular or finicky about the way it is shot.The split stock of the BO is more susceptible to variations in resting than more ridged configurations, like bolt actions. Something for the hunter to keep this mind.
BumbleBug is offline  
Old April 3, 2013, 07:57 PM   #15
Old Grump
Member in memoriam
 
Join Date: April 9, 2009
Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in
Posts: 3,144
My H&R Handi Rifle in .308 is the most accurate centerfire I own and people tell me I am lucky because theirs isn't anywhere near accurate. I guess I lucked out with a tight lock up because I have been shooting 180 gr ammo through it for 15 years and it is still the most accurate gun I have including my Weatherby.
__________________
Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.
--Daniel Webster--
Old Grump is offline  
Old April 4, 2013, 01:25 PM   #16
TheBear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 11, 2011
Posts: 295
so there are some break open rifles that are just as accurate as bolt action, and there are a few ones that are even more accurate but in general a bolt action is more accurate than a break open. did i get this right?
TheBear is offline  
Old April 4, 2013, 03:58 PM   #17
Geezerbiker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2011
Location: Willamina, OR
Posts: 526
I have a few of them and I've had good luck with the accuracy. I recently bought one in .45-70 and on the first outing shooting my cast bullet hand loads, I could cover 3 shots with a half dollar. This was shooting off hand while sitting in a folding chair at 50 yards. I only shot at that range to see if it was on paper. Next outing I'll increase the range and take a folding table to set up a rest.

The rest of that range day was occupied with teaching my 2 grandsons to shoot their new .22 single shots...

Tony
Geezerbiker is offline  
Old April 4, 2013, 09:17 PM   #18
Picher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,719
Quote:
so there are some break open rifles that are just as accurate as bolt action, and there are a few ones that are even more accurate but in general a bolt action is more accurate than a break open. did i get this right?
I'd have to agree with that statement to some degree. The only thing you left out is that the break-open rifle often has more variation in POI due to how it's held when fired.
__________________
People are like rifles. Some are tried and true, having great eyes, personality, and fun to be with. Others never seem to hit the mark with you. Still others go off half-cocked. Still, it's nice to know most of them.
Picher is offline  
Old April 7, 2013, 11:08 AM   #19
Sir Loads-A-Lot
Member
 
Join Date: July 17, 2010
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 88
I had single shot Ruger 1B in 30.06 that was pretty accurate. I could load it very quickly..just keep a couple of shells in my left hand just in case.
Sir Loads-A-Lot is offline  
Old April 11, 2013, 01:36 PM   #20
BoomieMCT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2010
Posts: 212
I had an H&R Varminter in .243. It shot maybe 6"-8" at 100 yards (hardly a "varminter") with every load I tried. Would not buy again.
BoomieMCT is offline  
Old April 12, 2013, 09:18 AM   #21
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doyle
The other issue is headspace. A single-shot is different from a bolt action in the way it headspaces. In a bolt action, the base of the cartridge is held tight to the bolt with the claw extractor. The headspace is the distance between the cartridge shoulder and the end of the chamber. Very simple.

In a single-shot, you've got that same shoulder-to-chamber space but you've also got another variable. That being the distance between the primer/cartridge face and the receiver face. That extra distance can vary SIGNIFICANTLY from gun to gun.
This is a difference created by improperly sized cases. Sure, there's not much you can do with factory ammo but if a reloader has this issue, it's one of improper practices not one based on the differences between actions.

"Headspace" is defined exactly the same way for both actions, breach to shoulder datum. Properly sized cases will be within 0.002 at most of the chamber dimension for either action.

In regards to accuracy, I have a 15" Encore Pro Hunter chambered in 7mm-08 with a Burris 2-7x scope. It shoots an inch or under pretty easily at 100 and it's clear to me that a major portion of that group size is my own incompetence. Shooting a handgun for groups is no easy task, even with bags.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is online now  
Old April 12, 2013, 09:25 AM   #22
Doyle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Starkville, MS (new to MS)
Posts: 4,663
Quote:
"Headspace" is defined exactly the same way for both actions, breach to shoulder datum
You are correct, but the machining differences between the breech face and the barrel hinge on single-shots exacerbate that breech-to-shoulder length variation.

As to your 15" Encore 7mm-08 - I wish I could get mine to group like that. I've only had it out once but I suspect my problem is in the scope or the mount rather than the gun itself.
Doyle is online now  
Old April 12, 2013, 11:53 AM   #23
natman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2008
Posts: 1,369
"Any" is a strong word. You might find an H&R break action that's as accurate as the average bolt action, but the hinged barrel and forearm mounting limit its ultimate accuracy potential.

Even if your buddy has the most accurate H&R ever made, there are lots of bolt action rifles that can outshoot it.
natman is offline  
Old April 14, 2013, 01:52 AM   #24
Death from Afar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 7, 2004
Location: Living the dream in Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 1,610
I tried a friends of mine 17 HMR New England. This thing shot off the chart- amazing. The single shot was a disadvantage on a "busy" hill side when you are shooting rabbits by the hundred mind you.
__________________
"Beware of the Man with one gun...he probably isnt into guns enough to be safe with it".
Death from Afar is offline  
Old April 14, 2013, 07:13 PM   #25
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,342
Quote:
As to your 15" Encore 7mm-08 - I wish I could get mine to group like that. I've only had it out once but I suspect my problem is in the scope or the mount rather than the gun itself.
I really believe that the "secret" is in Lee collet neck dies and Redding body dies. I'm no reloading guru and other than an RCBS Chargemaster, I don't use any expensive equipment or special techniques, yet I have no trouble getting any rifle I've yet tried to shoot an inch or under, usually well under. With no real effort either, beyond working up to max load.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is online now  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12426 seconds with 7 queries