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Old March 29, 2013, 10:33 AM   #26
handlerer2
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I don't want to offend anyone of this forum, but I have to say that IMO, Tikkas are far from top of the line rifles. They are cheap and overpriced.

I will admit that I'm a rifle snob, I will only own rifles of certain criterion, I own two Weatherbys, 340WBY, and 300WBY, Cooper, Ruger 77. All of these meet certain requirements, They are solid bolts, receivers machined from a solid billet, and integral recoil lugs. Many of the most popular rifles don't possess these qualities. REm 700 Tikkas, Savage and even Browning have cut the corners to increase profits. They don't have solid bolts, most have receivers made from drilled out bar stock, and washered recoil lugs, and alloyed, fused, or hollow bolts. Yet they all have reputations for accuracy and reliability.

I once, like 1976, thought that my MDL700, 7mag was all there was. My uncle a gunsmith and Methodist minister, educated me about the way things really are. He said " What do think John Moses Browning, or Peter Mauser would say if you handed them a MDL 700 or a Tikka, nothing, the next sound you would hear would be the sound of them hitting the bottom of the dumpster" I rather resented it at the time. My late uncle left me a late 60's Weatherby MKV Deluxe,340WBY, a real work of art. I sold my Remingtons, and now own only Weatherbys, Coopers, and Rugers.

I don't mean to say that other less costly rifles are useless. Only don't confuse CNC machined accuracy with real quality. REm, Tikkas, Savages and Brownings are all perfectly serviceable, hunting tools, just call them what they are.

I have extensively examined Tikkas at several stores here in MT, and I just don't like some features they have or don't have. Like I said the receiver is drilled bar stock, the ejection port is much too small, the trigger guard, magazine are plastic, the recoil lugs are washers, and one size bolt fits all. At their price you could have a much more solid rifle IMO. They do have a very good trigger and a good hammerforged barrel. I think they should be no more expensive than a Marlin XS,or XL, Ruger American, Or Thompson Venture, or Howa-Vanguard.

I know that some will resent this rant, but I believe everything I said is true.
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Old March 29, 2013, 11:13 AM   #27
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and for all their faults they'll probably outshoot whatever you have.
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Old March 29, 2013, 02:01 PM   #28
handlerer2
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Not likely, my Cooper Mdl 22, 6.5-284, I had to do it all from scratch, no ammo on MS coast, first group was under .3", after 4 shots to zero, still experimenting with bullet jump and coal, and powder primer ect. If it wasn't a 14 MP photo I would show you. My 300WBY, Vanguard, factory target was under .7" not bad for a 300WBY. I have come close to this but, but no quite there, never missed a mule deer though. This was a $370 rifle on clearance at Sheel's in Billings,MT.
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Last edited by handlerer2; March 29, 2013 at 02:09 PM.
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Old March 29, 2013, 02:16 PM   #29
Scottish Highlander
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Ok , after being at work all day and coming home to so many replies....well thanks everyone for your input.

Clearly I have a lot to learn!!!!

I should have been a bit more clearer on my question. I know the 7.62 is a 30 cal round but I was looking for a faster flatter trajectory with a little bit more punch. With the 308 I used to use 125 grain shop bought but I have now moved up to 150 grain reloads to try longer shots. On a normal day stalking your dealing with wind in Scotland so the heavier round helps.

The Tikka t3 is a good rifle and I love it. I'm not saying I don't but I have an itch to buy an addition to the family

My father has a 270 already so that wasn't really my fancy. The furthest shot I have taken with the 308 is about 200 yards. A lot of people on this thread have said the Tikka is a top rifle....have I been spoiled by buying the best there is already .....

I have a classic Schmit and Bender on my rifle 8x56. Maybe up grading the scope would help....I'm not sure that's why I'm here asking if I'm honest. Any advice is much appreciated
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Old March 29, 2013, 02:57 PM   #30
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In what regard? Big game hunting? Long range accuracy?

7mm Mag will do both, we have one that we barely ever shoot though. Just don't have the distance to appreciate what the rifle can do, and it is a bit too powerful for the whitetails we have here.

6mm Dasher is an interesting option. Has produced outstanding accuracy out to 1000 yards. Less than 1.5" groups have been produced at 1000 yards. It is a caliber for the serious reloader, but it has a lot of potential.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/dasher/
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Old March 29, 2013, 02:59 PM   #31
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Scottish Highlander, it might also help to have some idea about your firearms laws. I, for one, am entirely ignorant about Scottish gun laws. While I could suggest something like a .50 cal, that doesn't do much good if owning one's going to cost you 10 years in prison. . .
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Old March 29, 2013, 03:06 PM   #32
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You choice in optics deserves an up grade in riflery. I want a Sako 85, but may have to wait for it. My wife just bought me the Montana Varminter, last year. She probably thinks that should keep me satisfied for a while. I already told her I wanted a new Coonan, so I may may have to settle for that.

Sako 85 has real class, IMO. 6.5x55 in good handloads would be better ballistically than 7.62x51. To really beat a hot 6.5 Swede, would take 300 Mag or such. I reload for 6.4-284 Norma and 300WBY and 340WBy. The 300WBY and 6.5 Norma are almost ballistic twins. 50 GR. of powder for 6.5 vs 90 gr for the Weatherby. A stout 7mm is a hoot also.

If you get your hands on a real real quality rifle, your going to want one. It should be cheaper for you than it would for me, exchange wise wouldn't it? I mean for a Sako or a Blaser or such.

I didn't mean to step on your Tikka. I'm kind of old fashioned and the first time I picked one up and looked at it, I thought it was a stamping. I know they are accurate, they are light weight. I read somewhere that the bolt being hollow actually made operation smoother. If your not a snob, they are really ingenious, so is the Savage.

They must be strong enough to take it or they couldn't sell them, right. They just don't look like it.

Just my old fashion opinion, but if you want the best start looking at Sakos and stuff.

Last edited by handlerer2; March 29, 2013 at 03:22 PM.
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Old March 29, 2013, 03:13 PM   #33
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Alex and Spats, It is for red deer and Sika. The red deer are on the hill so sometimes a 250 - 300 yard shot is an option but I fired at a red stag last winter and he laughed at me. He was about 300 yards out and it was a 125 grain shop bought load. Sako I think it was. I feel the scope and weight of round is letting me down a bit. I clean missed him which is good as a wounding shot is a bummer . Does anyone have a scope to suggest ??? with an illuminated reticle for dusk shooting. A link would be nice
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Old March 29, 2013, 03:21 PM   #34
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Handler 2 , the Blaser rifles look lovely guns! What is your opinion of Mauser rifles ??
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Old March 29, 2013, 03:34 PM   #35
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While I understand what Handler is alluding to as to quality, I have hard time saying the Savage and 700 are junk or thinking Browning or Mauser would throw them in the nearest dumpster.

I've owned a lot of rifles over the years in different cartridges and one of the worst guns I ever had was a Weatherby. Might be I got a lemon but I didn't like it at all. I've also owned numerous Ruger 77's, some were good, some were excellent and a few were downright awful.

Since I bought my first 7mm08 Sako 75 I have loved that little cartridge. It is perfect for the whitetails and pigs I hunt, not too big, not too small, just right. I handload and after experimenting I found a load that shoots about .75-1" out of the Sako. Problem is, the Sako is a pretty rifle and I hunt in high humidity, muddy, swampy tough areas and cannot stand to see a "pretty" rifle beat all up from it. I bought a couple of Savages to hunt with, a .243 and a.308, man they shoot too. However I wasn't satisfied with either of them, they weren't 7mm08. I like to get what I want and am not satisfied until I do. I found a 7mm08 Rem 700 SPS Varmint, bought it and changed out everything but the barreled action, it shoots about .5 or less with the same load as the Sako. Bought another one of the same 700's, cut the barrel down to 20", changed everything out again and the last group I shot with it you could cover the 5 shots group with a nickel and not see an edge on the Shoot N C target.

Do they feel like a Cooper or Sako or high end rifle, nope, not at all. Do they shoot as good or better, you bet, all day long.

Moral, get what you want and that shoots well for you and be happy. If it doesn't sell it and get something else.

Oh and what beats a .308, why a .309 of course.
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Old March 29, 2013, 03:44 PM   #36
handlerer2
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Peter Paul Mauser showed the world what a quality rifle is. To make a rifle the same way today, with modern techniques, and modern materials, cost much more than many people will pay.

The Mdl 98 has barely been improved upon in 115 yrs. FN, Zastava, Mauser still make them. Mdl 70, Ruger 77, Kimber and some custom rifles are more modern versions.

CRF, is a little more involved than push feed, but considered absolutely necessary for dangerous game. Will cycle upside down, under g's, while swinging rapidly. An absolutely ingenious mechanical innovation!

I grew up shooting a Interarms MkX, an economy rifle at the time, mid 60's, made by Zastava. I learned to shoot center fire with 30-06. It wasn't scoped but I could bust a sheetrock bucket almost everytime from 200 yrd offhand. Of course I loved it!

You can't really do much better than a Mauser, especially in modern form.
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Old March 29, 2013, 03:56 PM   #37
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● If you intend to shoot smaller game -- down to and including ground squirrels but able to still take mule deer -- get a 243Win
● If you intend to shooter bigger game -- from elephant down to mule deer (again) -- get a 375H&H
● That current 308Win, however, pretty well spans a wide middle range.




(postscript: When one says "7.62," one is normally referring to 7.62NATO -- and you've already got that cartridge in the 308.)
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Old March 29, 2013, 04:06 PM   #38
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My dad has a Mauser 270 in the cupboard and its a nice example of a gun. All engraved and a lovely piece of wood. Its doubled in value in the last 10 years according to him. The only problem is he's to scared to take it out with him now. Its turning into an ornament I think it's an under lever cocking system....as in you reload by pulling the trigger guard down and back up. Not sure what the technical phrase is for this reloading action
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Old March 29, 2013, 04:28 PM   #39
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I'm sure not the last word, bout I've never heard of a Mauser falling bock. 270?

Sounds more like a Ruger MDL3, or a Browning designed Win falling block rifle that may have been available available in 270.

The only Mausers I've ever seen or read about are CRF bolt action type rifles. Is it a single shot or a repeater?
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Old March 29, 2013, 04:33 PM   #40
trg42wraglefragle
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If you going to buy a 300win mag or something similar in a Tikka or Sako 85 (especially fin lite), be aware that the kick will be pretty severe on it.

It really depends on that you are having problems with.

If your having trouble hitting game at long range from wind, either better wind reading or a better flying bullet will help.
It your having trouble seeing the game through your scope then a higher magnification scope will be the one.
If you are hitting deer but they running off still and not dead nearly instantly then a bigger round would be the ticket.

If your having trouble just hitting them more practice in windy conditions might be enough to solve all your problems without having to buy a new rifle.

Any idea on what sort of wind conditions you have to contend with in Scotland? (as is wind speed as I know it gets mighty windy there).
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Old March 29, 2013, 04:33 PM   #41
Scottish Highlander
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I may be getting confused with another rifle. It's definately a Mauser 270 he has. I'll check tomorrow just to be sure. It may be his 243 that is under lever reloading. Think thats a Ruger
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Old March 29, 2013, 04:36 PM   #42
Scottish Highlander
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trg, it gets mighty windy here. The wind helps though with noise etc. At least you know your down wind ......can be anything from a gentle breeze to 30-40 mile/hour gusts...
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Old March 29, 2013, 04:49 PM   #43
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Highlander, from the sound of post #33, you need more practice my friend.
Handler2, yes we all know how sweet mauser's are, where do you think all these other designs came from?.. But John Moses would have love some of the simplistic designs of accurate, affordable bolt action rifles.
The 7mm rem mag could pose a different prblem to or scottish friend, availability, I never gave it one thought,(everybody has one dont they?) what ammunition he could easily obtain.
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Old March 29, 2013, 05:45 PM   #44
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Red deer, 7mm Mag sounds like what I would suggest. Red deer won't be laughing off that round, its got plenty of power for that job.

Over here with out 120-250lb deer shot at 50 yards or less in the woods, I think its a little bit too much gun, but for 300 yard shots on red deer, It would be my tool for the job.
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Old March 29, 2013, 07:49 PM   #45
trg42wraglefragle
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Yea I knew it'd be high, Scotland's not really know for its lovely sunny beaches and perfect weather is it.

I've put a link to some ballistics using a 165gr berger bullets with both a 300winmag and 308, in a 30mph wind with nothing changing except for the velocity.

308: http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

300: http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

You can see that even though there is a big difference in muzzle velocity and 300yards the wind drift is 4" difference which is a bit but is nothing in comparison the 17" of the 300 win mag.

Sure you can probably get a better wind bucking load but 30-40 mph wind is very strong wind and unless you are very good at reading wind or have something like a 50bmg, it will not be an easy shot.

And with the 300 win mag, to miss judge the wind as 30mph when its actually 40mph, your shot will be off by 6 inches.
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Old March 29, 2013, 08:09 PM   #46
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OK, I'll put my .02 in here.

I hunt deer with a 308 exclusively (not a Tikka only because I had not shot one before I bought this rifle). I usually shoot factory Hornady 150 SST rounds. Killed many a deer at 300+ yds (standing) and they dropped in their tracks for the most part. Longest tracking was 50 yds (high shoulder shots only).

I do have a Tikka T3 in 223 Rem. Love it! Shoot coyotes with it. Have been using Black Hills 52gr in it but am starting to use my reloads (new to reloading). I consistently get .5MOA with this rifle. Have no reason to believe that the 308 would be different.

The 308 IMHO is the perfect deer rifle. I have seen many deer not found by guys shooting 300 mags, 7mm mags, etc. The final line is shot placement. The 308 has minimal recoil, is relative cheap to shoot (compared to the 300 mag or 7mm mag) and, out to 350 yds is very accurate.

Actually, all my rifles shoot better than I can in a hunting environment.
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Old March 29, 2013, 08:14 PM   #47
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Quote:
The furthest shot I have taken with the 308 is about 200 yards.
Ok, what cartridge you use doesn't really matter at that distance. Bullet drop from a .45-70 would be negligible.

Just keep the .308. There's nothing in Europe that it can't bring down.

The Tikka is a fine gun.
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Old March 30, 2013, 03:30 AM   #48
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Thanks Buzzcock, I am kind of getting that impression from all the posts. I think a bit of practice at targets in a variety of winds will improve my accuracy and trying different reloads at different ranges will improve my confidence.

In December I went stalking red hinds, it was a lovely calm blue sky afternoon. I shot a red hind in the neck at 40 yards roughly. She filled the scope completely she was that close. I shot her in the neck and she went down like a ton of bricks, behind her was her calf and it was at 100 yards. I placed the bullet in its chest and fired with a killing shot. I then looked for the rest of the deer and they'd moved up to a hill out at 200 yards. There was a 2 year old hind (roughly) I shot it in the ribs and knocked the bottom 3rd of her heart off. It was a good days work. All this was with a Nosler 150 grain balistic tip BT with home load. As I said it was a nice day, zero wind which builds my confidence but on gusty days it takes some skill and a little luck maybe. I wounded a hind at 100 yards a few months before and she ran out to 300 and I gave her 6 inches right in the wind aiming for the neck because she had her back to me and I hit her square on in the neck. I would never take that shot as my first but because she was wounded I had to and it was a good second shot. Practice makes perfect . Thanks to everyone's advice on here and maybe a look at a variable scope might help with windage and elevation markings will be a good help. Thanks again
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Old March 30, 2013, 07:19 AM   #49
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Instead of buying a new rifle I would suggest using that money for an instructor, and ammo. Learn how to use the rifle you have. Almost all guns are limited only by the shooters abilities.
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Old March 30, 2013, 07:39 AM   #50
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.308 cartridge has a lot going for it:
- top accurasy
- moderate recoil
- hits hard at all ranges
- chambered in handy carbine length

My only gripe about the .308 is excessive tissue damage at distances less than 150 yards. For this reason, I often hunt with my scoped 30-30 carbine.

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