The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Curios and Relics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 18, 2011, 09:05 PM   #1
Teppo Sensei
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2008
Location: Ft Lauderdale , FL
Posts: 103
Chilean Mauser .308 Model 1895 safe to shoot?

i just bought a Chilean Mauser .308 (7.62x51) Model 1895 29in barrel
its made in berlin germany by loewe
i think the original caliber was 7x57mm
Stamped on side of receiver
Mauser Chileno Modelo 1895
Deutsche Waffen Und Munitionsfabriken.

is it safe to shoot?
with what ammo?

i have fn 7.62x51 ammo on belt in cans
and some federal .308 ammo for my g3 clone

i might buy low recoil .308 ammo for it
Teppo Sensei is offline  
Old September 18, 2011, 09:42 PM   #2
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 18,647
The Chilean Mausers I have seen in 7.62 NATO were converted by reboring and rerifling the original barrel, then drilling out the back of the barrel and inserting a new chamber. I don't know if that conversion was done by the Chileans to upgrade rifles that would be used only in an emergency or was done by the importers. Either way, it might be safe enough, but I would not care to trust it to 60k pressures.

Check the picture; yours is probably the same way.

Jim

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...5&d=1232476324
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old September 19, 2011, 12:08 PM   #3
gyvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 4,200
What he said^^^^^^^^^^^^^.
gyvel is offline  
Old September 19, 2011, 12:31 PM   #4
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 6,452
7.62x51 and .308 WIN have different SAAMI pressure limits, do they not?

My Speer manual notes that the 7x57 max "working pressure is 46,000 CUP in deference to the weaker model 93 and 95 mausers still in use" ..... the working pressure of the .308 WIN is 52K ....... I would not run 52K loads in a gun designed for less....... but it's your face, and your rifle......
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old September 19, 2011, 03:58 PM   #5
jonnyc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 778
"7.62x51 and .308 WIN have different SAAMI pressure limits, do they not?"

No, not really. They are measured on two different scales, but are the same round, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish. However, I would not shoot "either" through a small-ring Mauser. Load light for it.
jonnyc is offline  
Old September 23, 2011, 04:05 PM   #6
Ignition Override
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2008
Posts: 1,758
NATO 7.62 cup pressure converts to about 58,000 psi, based on some charts that somebody linked elsewhere.

Commercial .308 seems to average a max. psi of about 62,000. The test pressures for both are much higher.

As for old Spanish (early 1900s) converted from 7mm to NATO .308, some middle-aged gun show buddies who are very familiar with Mausers are really skeptical about the strength of the Spanish steel from 1916 or so.

I learned about this when a seller at a gun show nearby in Southaven had such a converted Mauser. I asked him about the issue and either he was unfamiliar, or pretended not to be aware. That seller is no young guy either....An acquaintance who stood at a table behind him looked at me and slowly shook his head, then confirmed my concerns.

The other fact that so many people confuse the Spanish FR7, built on very old 7mm actions, with the FR8, built on the much later, stronger 8mm actions made the search for info on the safety of my FR8's digestion of commercial .308 even more time-consuming.

By the way, even though some FR8s etc can fail the headspace check using a Go/No Go gauge, the Win. .308 field gauge results in my rifle are excellent, and the (SAAMI) gauge is very cheap: with shipping $30, Brownell's, 800-741 0015.

Last edited by Ignition Override; September 23, 2011 at 04:20 PM.
Ignition Override is offline  
Old September 23, 2011, 05:12 PM   #7
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 11,340
Quote:
As for old Spanish (early 1900s) converted from 7mm to NATO .308, some middle-aged gun show buddies who are very familiar with Mausers are really skeptical about the strength of the Spanish steel from 1916 or so.
Chilean 1895 Mausers were made by Loewe, owner of the original Mauser Werke, in Germany (home to Krupp steel). Metallurgy on German mausers is far from suspect.

1895 Mausers are stronger than 1893 Mausers, having better heat treating than the average Spanish Mauser, and have the added benefit of the Mauser Safety, a lug behind the bolt handle cutout that would use the bolt handle as a safety lug in the event of a catastrophic failure.

That said, I would trust an 1895 Mauser for occasional shooting with 7.62X51mm NATO, but a steady diet of high-pressure 308 loads will start to peen the action, causing growing headspace and making unlocking the bolt difficult.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Taylor Machine
Scorch is offline  
Old September 26, 2011, 01:26 PM   #8
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 2,317
http://dutchman.rebooty.com/1895Chile.html


F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Old September 26, 2011, 07:04 PM   #9
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 18,647
Just to be clear, I did not get into the old argument over .308 Winchester vs. 7.62 NATO or even into whether the pre-98 Mauser actions are strong enough for either or both.

My point was solely about the way those rifles were converted and my lack of trust of the reworked chamber, made necessary by the fact that 7x57 is longer than 7.62x51 so one does not just "ream out" the barrel to the latter caliber.

In fact, it is hard to say why or if there is any danger. The chamber insert should stay in place, but if it doesn't, I think it would act like the old "floating chamber" and come back at high pressure. I would prefer not to take a chance.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old March 23, 2013, 08:18 AM   #10
EZTundra77
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 2012
Posts: 1
7.62 nato is NOT basically the same round as .308 I strongly disagree w/ that statement since it can lead to deadly malfunctions. Wall thickness is different. Chamber pressures are different. The neck tapers at a different point on the case. Some 7.62 brass is much beefier for use in full auto guns. I contacted Federal because they had a discrepancy on their box specs for Gold Medal Match .308 and 7.62x51. The boxes showed different specs. But their website showed the rounds being identical. I called, & initially they told me the website was correct. So I lied, & told them I was shooting through an old mauser, so they double checked. They confirmed the FGMM box specs & told me not to shoot the hotter .308 through old bolt guns. My Rem 700ss 5R & my Saiga .308 shoot both fine. But I wouldn't shoot .308 through an antique.
EZTundra77 is offline  
Old March 24, 2013, 12:58 PM   #11
jonnyc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 778
Way to start off with your first post, Tundra. Lots of internet miss-information there. Do a little research, they are the same round. Some military brass is thicker, but that is only relevant to reloaders. Commercial and military chambers can be a bit tighter or looser, but that has nothing to do with the ammo. And where are all these "deadly malfunctions" that you and other "Chicken Littles" start screaming about?
Now, let's get back to the OP's question.
__________________
2013 PA Cartridge Collector Show!!!
Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance
Details: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513625
jonnyc is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 10:48 PM   #12
Ignition Override
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2008
Posts: 1,758
Teppo sensei:

Can you locate either a 7.62 NATO Field Gauge (rare?), or maybe a commercial .308 Field Gauge?

One problem with using the .308 Field in a 7.62 NATO rifle is that it will yield different results, and I would need to ask a seasoned gun smith
about how to interpret the results.
Ignition Override is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09478 seconds with 9 queries