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Old April 4, 2013, 05:18 PM   #51
Gaerek
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Quote:
If it was such a limited problem do you think a company like Apex Tactical would risk designing and manufacturing an extractor specifically for Gen 3 and Gen 4 Glocks to address the issue?
People make accessories like that to make a buck simply because they can claim it gives better performance, whether it's needed or not. Also, as you can tell by all the hype you see on the boards, a lot of people "believe" there's a problem with every new Glock created. That, whether it's true or not, creates a market.

Here's something else to consider, how many companies sell full length guide rods for 1911's?

That's a part that was invented solely for the sake of selling a part. This is a part that does next to nothing positive (yet can make the gun more difficult to disassemble), and yet they still sell enough of them to make it worth their while.

A company building a part for a gun is not proof there's a huge problem with a gun.
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Old April 4, 2013, 10:04 PM   #52
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Good Lord. It's a documented fact that Glock has had some problems with the Gen 4s. There was a recall for a reason. Does this make them the worst company ever? No, it doesn't. But pretending it didn't happen is just ridiculous.

I love the simplicity, ruggedness, and utility of Glocks. But I got tired of brass to the face. Saying "yea but that disappeared after 1000 rds for me" doesn't change the fact that it happened and borders on denial. Why should I have to put up with that when I can get the same performance in a firearm without that issue that basically does the same thing? I gave them two chances with two different guns and called it off. So I went to M&Ps. I've had much better luck, but even they aren't perfect.

Shoot what you like. Glocks aren't perfect, no company is. Them not being perfect isn't a travesty, it's reality. But I will say there are a lot of folks playing Glock's game these days and some of those options are mighty tempting.
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Last edited by TunnelRat; April 4, 2013 at 10:13 PM.
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Old April 9, 2013, 03:48 PM   #53
BuckRub
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Thanks guys
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Old April 10, 2013, 11:54 AM   #54
Gaerek
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Good Lord. It's a documented fact that Glock has had some problems with the Gen 4s. There was a recall for a reason. Does this make them the worst company ever? No, it doesn't. But pretending it didn't happen is just ridiculous.
I never once said there wasn't a problem. I never once said anyone is calling them the worst company ever. If you read, you'll even see where I hope they fix the problem. Here, I'll save you some trouble:

Quote:
I really hope Glock fixes it [BTF issue], but this is one issue that wouldn't sway me from buying a gun.
My primary point has been that other manufacturers get passes for known problems that are FAR worse than BTF. You see it all the time.

"Oh the barrel lug on your XD broke after less than 1000 rounds? Send it back, must be a bad one!"

"Wow, an M&P shooting brass in your face every other round? Must be a bad one, better contact S&W and get it fixed!"

Compared to:

"See, Glocks aren't "perfection." You're getting brass to your face every 2 boxes of ammo. Pfftt, this is why I'll never own a Glock. Better cut your losses, sell it and get an XDM...no way you'll ever have a problem with that."

And these are all paraphrases of conversations I've been a part of or overheard over the last couple months. Look hard enough and long enough, and you'll see the same trend. It's "trendy" to Glock-hate.

My secondary point was that it is a limited problem. Far more guns DON'T have the problem, than do. This isn't giving Glock a pass, it's telling the truth. They still need to fix it. However, the chances of it happening at a critical moment are almost zero.

If you don't want to shoot Glocks for this reason, that's cool. I don't have a problem with it. I don't care if people complain about this problem. It IS a problem, and it really does need to get fixed. I had it for a while, but thankfully, the problem went away on it's own. But even when it did happen it wasn't a huge issue for me. It was rare enough (maybe once in a trip to the range) as to be basically a non-issue.

In the future, please don't put words into my mouth. I'll defend Glock, but only as far as is reasonable. I know there's a problem, but people make a MUCH bigger issue out of it than it really is.
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Old April 10, 2013, 12:26 PM   #55
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I never once said there wasn't a problem. I never once said anyone is calling them the worst company ever.
Le sigh, even when I am defending Glock you get mad? I'm actually arguing on behalf of them saying that more is made out of it than necessary. And I never said you said those things. My response came after yours, that's the only relation. It's a response to a number of things that have been said at this point. Relax.

Quote:
My primary point has been that other manufacturers get passes for known problems that are FAR worse than BTF.
I really haven't seen that at all. Heck I had a thread where I complained about my M&P hitting me in the face with brass. I even had a thread complaining about the lauded HK P30 and got flak for it.

Quote:
And these are all paraphrases of conversations I've been a part of or overheard over the last couple months. Look hard enough and long enough, and you'll see the same trend. It's "trendy" to Glock-hate.
Or maybe you notice them more because you like Glock? We've had a number of threads recently where it seemed "trendy" to hate on the the XD/XDm.

Quote:
However, the chances of it happening at a critical moment are almost zero.
And you have quantitative prove of this how? All I was saying is I prefer a firearm that doesn't exhibit this behavior to one that does.

Quote:
In the future, please don't put words into my mouth.
I didn't.

Quote:
I know there's a problem, but people make a MUCH bigger issue out of it than it really is.
I would agree.
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Old April 10, 2013, 03:17 PM   #56
Gaerek
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Not going to reply to all that. Looks like we're on basically the same page here, and I apologize for reading into your post. Maybe I'm biased and that's why I see Glock hate. It just seems to me that every person who complains about a gun that isn't a Glock (or Taurus...fanboyism here is fanatical...) that they just got a bad one. But if a Glock has a problem, it's "proof" that Glocks suck.

Personally, I'm not a member (well, I think I actually have a membership, but just don't read/post hardly ever, if at all) of "that Glock forum" specifically because I hate the amount of Glock fanboyism and the fact that every other poster there thinks you need at least half your Glock, by weight, to have Lone Wolf parts, or you might as well be shooting a paperweight. It's nice seeing the different viewpoints.

I realize there is no such thing as a perfect gun. Every choice we make comes with a compromise.

EDIT: To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, let me refer you to this thread I just came across today, and the replies:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=521828

The OP has a serious problem with his gun, a Kahr in this instance.

Quote:
Would fire then then eject and reload and slide would hang up after 5 rounds it wouldn't even load any longer.sent it to kahr and they reworked the barrel it got better but would not rapid fire i would have to shoot then eject the round it would try to load and load a new one and thats the only way it would work......sent it back again. Haven't shot it yet but this time the store owner personally ran 50 rounds through it and said it was good. It seems to slide better now and overall feels smoother
Then, the VERY next reply was basically giving Kahr a pass on this very serious issue with what is supposedly a carry gun.

Quote:
Did you do the Kahr mag prep as suggested on the Kahr forum? Everyone I know who has had a feeding problem has NOT done the drill - once done, the issues go away.
So, you have to do something, that isn't listed in the manual, and only if you read the Kahr forums will you know how to perform it. The phrase "Everyone I know who has had a...problem..." indicates that it isn't an isolated problem. Yet, it's not because there's a flaw with the gun...you can make it work.

Reading through the thread, there isn't a single negative post about Kahr. I'm not saying there should be any negativity, but if it were a Glock post, "Glock having Brass to the Face," you can imagine the type of replies you'd see. Yet, it's a Kahr that's having the problem, so no big deal. Kahr get's a pass. It's so incredibly common to see this with practically every manufacturer.

Last edited by Gaerek; April 10, 2013 at 04:17 PM.
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Old April 10, 2013, 11:50 PM   #57
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Reading through the thread, there isn't a single negative post about Kahr. I'm not saying there should be any negativity, but if it were a Glock post, "Glock having Brass to the Face," you can imagine the type of replies you'd see. Yet, it's a Kahr that's having the problem, so no big deal. Kahr get's a pass. It's so incredibly common to see this with practically every manufacturer.
Again we can all cherry pick examples. Samples sizes of one are meaningless. I honestly don't think there is a strong anti-Glock bias here, but I'll agree to disagree. Maybe part of it is that there is a huge following on GlockTalk that a lot of the Glock fans hang out there and there just aren't as many to come to Glock's defense on these boards.

Btw, had I seen that thread I would have called BS. Part of it is just luck of the draw.
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