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Old March 18, 2013, 09:56 PM   #1
Gunnutfn49
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Ar build in 545x39

Looking for anecdotes and parts recommendations for a build in ths caliber.

Specifically uppers, bolts, mags, and buffer problems and successes.
Thanks in advance.
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"...and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."-Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan

...What he meant to add was, "unless, of course, all responsible citizens are armed to the teeth."
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Old March 18, 2013, 10:06 PM   #2
tahunua001
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only game in town I know about is model1sales...
not held in high regard but my model1 9mm kit works great.

only game in town for mags is cprod...
much worse track record.
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Old March 19, 2013, 06:06 AM   #3
Mobuck
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tahuna, on what do you base your comment about C-Products 5.45 mags?
I've not had an ounce of trouble with any of these I've used.
As far as a "build"(that word in relation to assembling an AR irks me) is concerned, there are barrels on the market that don't work well with some types of ammo and I've heard(not confirmed) that there may be problems with some gas port sizing.
Now is bad time to consider ANYTHING relating to AR platforms or firearms in general unless you have lots of spare cash burning holes in your pocket.
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Old March 19, 2013, 12:13 PM   #4
tahunua001
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my information is based on personal experience with 3 9mm ar15 mags, 1, 5.56 ar mag and 5 7.62x39 ar mags, all cprod and all fail to feed at at rate which make the gun unserviceable.
the x39 mags were made functional by adding stronger follower springs but the 9mm and 5.56 were just complete crap...
I will never buy another cprod mag as long as I live, which is one of the reasons I am not also pursuing an AR545 myself.
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Old March 19, 2013, 12:41 PM   #5
Gunnutfn49
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Did not mean to start a flame war, am simply looking for ANY and ALL comments on manufacturers and specific parts.

I have three spare lowers that I will slowly put together for myself and others. Since I have three 5.56 for myself already, i was considering this other caliber for myself since that (may) remain the cheapest surplus ammunition on the market ( my assumption) when the feinstein/obama/sandy hook legislation does or does not take hold.

thanks again everyone, just looking for input and opinions!
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"...and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."-Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan

...What he meant to add was, "unless, of course, all responsible citizens are armed to the teeth."
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Old March 19, 2013, 01:37 PM   #6
tahunua001
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not really any flaming going on, my initial remark was about as vague as can be so naturally there are going to be skeptics, I merely responded with more detailed info. fairly standard around here.

I only own 2 ARs, both DPMS lowers with one being an accurized 5.56 carbine and the other a 9mm carbine with wood furniture... they both treat me well.

I have considered the 5.45 and anytime I think of getting another AR the 5.45 is always at the top of my list however it's just a crap shoot with what you end up with, as I said, my personal experience with cprod mags is pretty abysmal and I don;t know of anyone else with 5.45 AR mags and even though my model 1 9mm came out alright just about everyone else that orders from them seems to get burned.

whatever you do, don't get blackthorn, my older brother has a blackthorn 7.62x39 build and over the course of 200 rounds or so has pretty much had to replace half the gun from LPK to extractors.
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Old March 19, 2013, 03:52 PM   #7
Gunnutfn49
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So noted. I am sorry to hear your brother is having such a hard time.

I figured culling info from the TFL wonks about an AR in 545 would be the best course before i plop down any money.

-Gunnutfn49
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"...and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."-Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan

...What he meant to add was, "unless, of course, all responsible citizens are armed to the teeth."
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Old March 21, 2013, 01:12 PM   #8
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I have several boxes of C-Products mags in 7.62,5.45, and 5.56 and so far have not encountered a single problem with any of them. Granted, I've not shot every one of them but I've tried one from every order received with zero problems.
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Old March 22, 2013, 05:51 PM   #9
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You can save yourself a few dollars on mags if you have any USGI 30 round mags with the old style black follower laying around. I only load 25 rounds in the 30 round mags and they run at 100% reliability.
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Old March 24, 2013, 04:16 PM   #10
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listen.. i have a bulgarian AK-74 and im looking to convert it from 5.45x39mm to 5.56mm...

here are some things to keep in mind.. 5.56mm typically offers around 1400ft/lbs of muzzle energy.. by comparison a 7.62x39 offers around 1,800ft/lbs at the muzzle.. the 5.45 is lucky to make 1,000 making it a very low powered cartridge in comparison

ammunition is cheap now, sure, but many of the countries that did have 5.45mm rifles have already switched to 5.56 so surplus is going to get harder to find, and when it does youll be at a point where itll be very expensive to shoot and ammo will be hard to find, and factory ammo when they start making it wont even have the tumble effect that makes up for the cartridges lack of power

then there are magazine issues... the 5.45, like other AK rounds are quite tapered and ar-15 magazines are not, in fact the top third is perfectly straight, so feeding issues wont be uncommon

my recommendations for a build in this caliber would involve getting an AK-74 parts kit and if youre looking to build an AR15 in an alternative caliber then to choose something designed for the action, like 6.5 grendel, 6.8mm SPC, or even the 6x45mm wildcare (necked up 223)
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Old March 24, 2013, 08:36 PM   #11
Gunnutfn49
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Jason,

I like your grendel notion. Recommended uppers?
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"...and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."-Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan

...What he meant to add was, "unless, of course, all responsible citizens are armed to the teeth."
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Old March 24, 2013, 08:43 PM   #12
Gunnutfn49
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Wny,

I live in commie-fornia, id love some usgi mags, but they are hard to come by in coliant form. But if i find, some, your suggestion will be well remembered! Thanks.

Gunnut

Commie-fornia, the state where no problem is too small to be mismanaged or screwed up by the progressive government.
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"...and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."-Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan

...What he meant to add was, "unless, of course, all responsible citizens are armed to the teeth."
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Old March 24, 2013, 09:23 PM   #13
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i couldnt recommend a grendel upper, im not enough of an AR15 fan to recommend one, i might have converted my AK to 6.5 grendel if i didnt feel it was important to get a .223 caliber first (wanted something nato complaint for ammo availability).. so this is why im converting my AK to 5.56

downside to the grendel is youll only get about 20 rounds in the mag, and the 6mmx45 wildcat could be worth looking into as its made from .223 brass by necking it up to 6mm for better ballistics
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Old March 24, 2013, 09:31 PM   #14
Gunnutfn49
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Who has good reloading data on that wildcatting round? Any manuals you would recommend?
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"...and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."-Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan

...What he meant to add was, "unless, of course, all responsible citizens are armed to the teeth."
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Old March 25, 2013, 10:19 AM   #15
tahunua001
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Quote:
as well as the option of practicing or huntingwith a .22lr conversion unit. Yes, right now the price of .22lr is prohibitive, but in a few months, that will get fixed. it's just too easy to make (and smuggle, if need be) .22lr ammo for these prices to hold.Nobody needs .22 ammo, really. It's not combat ammo. It's plinking ammo. So as soon as the morons figure that out and quit buying it at ridiculous prices, the supply will catch up with demand and prices will drop like rocks.
Roberg, if you actually read the thread you'd see the OP already has 3 AR15s that use our GI round. 'variety is the spice of life' I hear some folks say.
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ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
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Old March 25, 2013, 02:06 PM   #16
Gunnutfn49
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the input is appreciated nonetheless.
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"...and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."-Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan

...What he meant to add was, "unless, of course, all responsible citizens are armed to the teeth."
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Old March 25, 2013, 04:37 PM   #17
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ill probably catch some flack for this, but ballistically, the 6x45mm isnt all that fantastic.. sure it allows you to use standard AR15 magazines, bolt, even brass by just necking it up, performance wise it really doesnt offer much you cant achieve by simply using the heavier bullets available for .223x5.56 such as the 75-80 grain rounds which in this weight have much, much better ballistic coefficiencies than the 6x45mm.. the .223 is actually a very well rounded rifle cartridge and its hard to improve on that in terms of performance (for the size of the action) or in terms of cost

reason im converting my AK from 5.45 to 5.56 has a lot to do with ammo as well, sure, i could buy a few cans of surplus 5.45 ammo, but then im stuck with cheap surplus ammo, corrosive stuff that doesnt shoot very well... and like the 7.62x39mm there will come a time where countries will stop exporting it especially since a lot of those former eastern block countries have been switching to 5.56

so basically what im saying is long term, your best option for low cost availability and well rounded performance is still the .223/5.56mm and if youre going to get an AR15 upper in another cartridge just to play around with id look more into the 6.8SPC/6.5 grendel options

the only reason i can see using the 6x45mm is it would allow you to deer hunt in every state and only require a change of the barrel
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Old March 25, 2013, 09:31 PM   #18
Gunnutfn49
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I like the wildcatting idea. But, i also like cheap ammo.

Grumble grumble grumble....
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"...and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."-Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan

...What he meant to add was, "unless, of course, all responsible citizens are armed to the teeth."
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Old March 26, 2013, 06:34 AM   #19
jason41987
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well, wildcatting the .223 would probably be cheaper than those alternatives if youre using a .223/5.56mm based wildcat, then all youd need is a barrel change, and 223 brass is not expensive at all, so with the reloading dies you could make wildcats fairly cheap, i just dont see the 6mmx45 having any benefit over the standard .223, but im sure there are other options for a wildcat besides that
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Old March 26, 2013, 10:37 AM   #20
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well considering that you can get 243 bullets all the way up to 105 grains it is a really good compromise between 223 and 300 blackout. blackout not only trims the casings back but also dumps a heavier bullet with a not so great ballistic coefficient and then tries to send it at very low velocity.

keeping the full length casing and reducing the amount of sizing needed prolongs the life of the casings and allows for stronger loads and the 6mm bullet still packs double the weight of the average 223 without sacrificing too much velocity and shoots fairly flat within 500 yards.

for target shooting yes the 223 is much more suitable but for hunting I would love to have a 6x45 for deer and just about anything else short of elk. however even right now while ammo is high and reloading supplies are still pretty available and cheap-ish, it's still cheaper to pick up a 1024 round spam can of 5.45 than it is to get 1000 223 casings, wildcat dies, 1000 243 bullets and 8 pounds of your powder of choice...

it'd be a better choice for hunting but if all a guy wants is something different in his gun safe and something that won't break the bank then a 5.45 AR would do just fine.
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ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
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Old March 26, 2013, 11:41 AM   #21
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tahunua, problem with the 5.45 in an AR though is how heavily tapered AK cartridges are, put an AK mag next to an AR15 and youll see which profile the 5.45x39 was designed for and what youre trying to stuff it into... now if he had an AK-74, maybe a bulgarian model it would be perfect and give him an entirely new platform to toy around with too... and as the relatively lower cost of the AK vs the price to convert an AR15, he wouldnt be spending that much extra for an AK-74 (assuming normal rifle prices)
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Old March 26, 2013, 12:22 PM   #22
tahunua001
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it is the same problem you face with the 7.62x39 and given the proper design there are plenty of AR15s that operate satisfactorily. the 223 also has slightly tapered case and also has to wait til the magwell is clear before curving, it functions just fine, it's all in how you build the magazine and how you address problems as they come up

also your relatively priced parts aren't relative at all. the AK74 hasn't been cheaper than a 5.45 build it yourself kit since 2011, I know this because this was the time I started toying around with the idea of owning a 5.45. at that time the prices were about neck and neck, once 2012 rolled around then the AR started gaining ground as the supply of AK74s went down and the supply of ARs stayed the same.

finally, have you considered that since the OP already has 3 ARs and is considering building another that he is heavily invested in the AR platform and chose that platform for a reason?(or set of reasons).
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ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
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Old March 29, 2013, 10:36 PM   #23
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I just bulit a AR15 with a 5.45x39 spikes upper and ace stock I have not had the chance to test it out yet I was able to get my hands on some ACS mags with some help from a member on this board and AIM I will try and get to the range this week.
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Old March 30, 2013, 12:28 PM   #24
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Hairbag,

Im excited for the report. Ill be reloading 308 this weekend for my fal clone.
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"...and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."-Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan

...What he meant to add was, "unless, of course, all responsible citizens are armed to the teeth."
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Old March 30, 2013, 12:56 PM   #25
tahunua001
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oh and I just remembered, even though it's been discontinued, smith and wesson used to make upper halves in 5.45. CDNN had them for a long time fore a fairly decent price but I didn't jump on the 5.45 train until S&W gave up on them, you may find them around gunchoker or armslist if you look hard enough.
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ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
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