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Old March 19, 2013, 11:28 PM   #1
Dboy007
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Im turning 18 this summer and am saving up to buy a AK-47 any Advice

Hi nice too meet everyone I'm Demetrius soon I am turning 18 and I would like to get an AK-47 now people think I'm crazy because I want to buy one but I have really wanted one for a while and decided to save up I wanted to know if anyone has so advice to pass on and all so I wanted to know if I could buy a AK 47 online at 18 and go to my gun shop to pick it up.
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Old March 19, 2013, 11:39 PM   #2
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yes you can but you have to find a local, federally licensed dealer and have them fax or email a copy of their license to the online dealer before buying. then you will have to have the local company perform a NICS background check and pay for the FFL transfer fee.

as for AK specific info here's the same advice I gave to another member on another thread:
right now is a horrible time to buy an AK, AR or just about any other semi automatic rifle based on a military design. with all the turmoil in the senate and congress and just about everywhere else, there has been so much panic that these guns have all flown off the shelves and some companies are backordered into the middle of next year(sadly this is not an exaggeration) . a lot of these were purchased by profiteers looking to make a quick buck by buying low and reselling insanely high. most of what you'll find are incredibly overpriced. 6 months ago Romanian Wasr10/63s which were the cheapest of the cheap were selling for $650 on up, now they're asking over $1000 which is a good step down from the $1300 they were averaging two months ago so it's getting better but still not a great time.

wasr10/63s tend to have quality control issues including magazine wobble which can cause serious problems with jamming unless you buy the slightly larger plastic magazines. they also tend to have canted front sights making it difficult to sight in properly. those are the major issues, another minor problem is some of them tend to have issues with chronic rust, you have to clean them all the freaking time.

I used to own a wasr and sold it, just couldn't convince myself to like that piece of...er...stuff. I finally sold it, about 3 months later my brother also sold his wasr, both of them had all the of problems that I listed.

a better and cheaper option you could try is the SKS, many can be found for less than $300 and in my personal experience is a far superior design in almost every category except ammo capacity.
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Old March 20, 2013, 04:26 AM   #3
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Think about getting a semi auto Ruger 10-22 T 22 rimfire rifle. Mount a scope on it. Then learn how to shoot it at 50 yards while, prone, sitting, knelling and standing . The accurate 10-22 is more fun to shoot and 22 ammo cost less.
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Old March 20, 2013, 10:38 AM   #4
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Welcome to TFL, Demetrius!

Also be aware that you'll need to comply with both state and federal law in purchasing, owning, and possessing a firearm. Be sure to consult both. If you have any specific questions, we have a Law & Civil Rights forum where you can ask.
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Old March 21, 2013, 04:13 AM   #5
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Welcome to the forum and I'm glad to hear your interest in firearms.

The AK is one of the most rugged and reliable platforms out there and is quite fun to shoot. If you are able to find one locally, try that also before buying online. It will lessen the hassle of shipping and going through an FFL/dealer.

My local gun stores have AK's in stock now for around $800. I know that is somewhat pricey but welcome to the world of guns; it is not cheap.

I know many people will steer you away from WASR 10's for a reason, but they are one of the cheaper and more affordable ones. I got lucky with mine and got it used for around $500 and don't have any of the sighting or mag wobble issues.

Good luck in your search.
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Old March 21, 2013, 02:08 PM   #6
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Good luck finding one in today's market. They're being hoarded.

I purchased a Romanian SAR 1 -- The AWB version of the AK (no bayo lug) -- back about 2001. As I remember, the cost was circa $350. I purchased two cases, 1,000 rds each, of Wolf (Commercial Russian) ammo at $85 per case.

A fast/dirty search online today shows two things. You can't find one, and if you can find one the prices are astronomical. Ammo cost is astronomical.

Used to be a flood of Romanian AK's on the market. Romanian is a decent version, well made, not spiked in price like a Russian, nor a cheapo Chinese knock-off like Norinco.

Not intending to kick dirt into your campfire, but the market is crazy right now because our duly elected officials are crazy.
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Old March 21, 2013, 03:55 PM   #7
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Advice - wait until all the panic crap dies down, all you are going to do right now is pay through the nose for junk and really pay through the nose for something decent.

I'd also wait for the AR's to come back down in price and get one of those over an AK.
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Old March 21, 2013, 05:41 PM   #8
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I agree with salty dog, the AR is a much more refined design, easier to field strip and clean/reassemble, parts are pretty easy to find if something breaks, and are chambered in a flatter shooting, more inherently accurate cartridge.

as I stated in my first post I had an AK for 3 years before I finally got fed up with it and sold it and my brother soon followed suit. both of us still own a pair of AR15s each. unless you go with a specialty caliber it's pretty easy to find an AR for cheaper than an AK as well.

you also have a very large number of calibers open to you in AR15s while AKs are pretty much just in 7.62x39, 5.45x39 and 223(some 12 gauge and 308 exceptions but that's about it).
I own an AR15 in 5.56 Nato and one in 9mm Nato. the brother owns one in 5.56 and one in 7.62x39(same as the AK). other common and popular calibers are
22 long rifle
5.45x39
5.7x28 FN Herstal(the same as the PS90 sub machinegun)
6x45
6.5 grendel
6.8spc
300 blackout
300 whisper
300 fireball(lots of 300s)
7.62x40(I think also known as 30 wilson)
450 bushmaster
458 socom
50 beowolf
and a lot of others that I can't think of off the top of my head.
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Old March 21, 2013, 06:00 PM   #9
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Check your local laws.
Here in Hillsborough County Florida you must be 21 to purchase any long arm with a pistol grip, that is, one that is seperate from the butt stock or not attached to a butt stock at the bottom of the grip.
This would include cruiser shotguns.
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Old March 21, 2013, 10:31 PM   #10
Dboy007
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Thanks

Thanks for everyone's advice it's really helping me in my decision on what gun to buy what kind of bullets do you recommend for the AR and ak-47 also is the ak-47s bullet bigger and stronger then the AR's bullet
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Old March 21, 2013, 11:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Thanks for everyone's advice it's really helping me in my decision on what gun to buy what kind of bullets do you recommend for the AR and ak-47
I'd avoid steel jacketed ammo - most of the cheap military surplus is steel jacketed...... check it with a magnet. Long term, it can wear the barrel excessively. If you don't mind rebarreling, then shoot whatever.....just clean the gun after shooting it, as "corrosive" milsurp ammo can do bad thing to a barrel in a short amount of time....

Quote:
also is the ak-47s bullet bigger and stronger then the AR's bullet
Bigger and stronger ....... two different cats, there..... The standard loading for the 7.62x39 cartridge (the standard AK-47 round) is a 123 grain (1 grain = 1/7000th of a pound) bullet @2,400 feet per second ....... the standard .223 cartridge for the AR was a 55 grain bullet @ 3,100 feet a second.

If you do the math,

E= m(v squared)

where "m" is mass, and "v" is velocity, you will find that the little 55 gr bullet, though less than 1/2 the weight of the 123 grain bullet, has more energy at the muzzle ..... because it is going much faster..... yet being by being lighter, it does not penetrate as well ..... so stronger? Yes and no.

Both cartridges develop more than 1,000 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle, so I doubt very much that anything short of a moose or a stack of bricks could tell the difference between being shot with either one .... think of it this way: The AK round would be a Chevette doing 50, and AR round a Yaris doing 80 ...... you don't want to get hit by either one.
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Old March 21, 2013, 11:49 PM   #12
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Steel ammo is fine for an ak and even a cheap ar. Im not trying to start a debate, but steel ammo is made for ak's, litterally.
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Old March 21, 2013, 11:53 PM   #13
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Folks run that steel crap through their AK's and then go on about a 4MOA AK is a good as it gets ......

Corn pone was made to be eaten ....that doesn't mean a diet of it will make you perform well.
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Old March 22, 2013, 12:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
what kind of bullets do you recommend for the AR and ak-47
different bullets have different uses.
full metal jackets(also referred to as ball ammo) are generally used by military as they are easier to manufacture and a treat signed long ago pretty much made it illegal for militaries to make ammo designed to create gruesome injuries. it's normally the cheapest stuff around and is good enough for punching holes in paper but not much else.
then you have soft point, hollow hollow point and polymer tipped ammo designed to fragment, expand and otherwise create as much damage as possible. these are usually used as hunting ammunition.

depending on what you intend to do with the ammo is what determines the bullets used.
Quote:

also is the ak-47s bullet bigger and stronger then the AR's bullet
I might be over simplifying here but the AK47 generally uses a 30 caliber round(3/tenths of an inch in diameter) while the AR15 normally uses a 22 caliber bullet(2.2 tenths of an inch in diameter). one advantage of the wider diameter is that the bullet can also have greater mass in the same length bullets. the average AR15 bullet is 55grains while the AK averages 123grains.

however the AR offers greater velocity and the lighter, thinner bullet loses velocity slower and is affected less by wind than the fatter, heavier and slower AK bullet. as a side effect the AR15 maintains more energy(calculated in pounds per foot or FTLBs) over greater distance.

at point blank range the 7.62x39mm(AK47) does have more energy than the 5.56x45mm(AR15) but over distance the 5.56 takes the lead.
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Old March 22, 2013, 09:22 AM   #15
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Quote:
Thanks for everyone's advice it's really helping me in my decision on what gun to buy what kind of bullets do you recommend for the AR and ak-47 also is the ak-47s bullet bigger and stronger then the AR's bullet

OK, time for some more advice. You need to read, research, understand and know what you are getting before you purchase a gun. That means loads, ballistics and all the associated things that go with gun ownership. Owning a gun isn't HALO or World Of Warcraft son, it serious business. For the time being, save your money, get educated and then buy a decent weapon that you have trained and studied about.
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Old March 22, 2013, 12:12 PM   #16
tahunua001
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and another point goes to saltydog.
libraries, though they may seem antiquated and outdated given the introduction of the internet still have a great amount of knowledge that they can bestow.
firearms safety, basic nomenclature, proper technique, all should be at least studied before you ever touch a gun, no less attempt to fire it.
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ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
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You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
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Old March 22, 2013, 12:32 PM   #17
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Owning a gun isn't HALO or World Of Warcraft son, it serious business. For the time being, save your money, get educated and then buy a decent weapon that you have trained and studied about.
While knoledge is a Good Thing, I don't think talking down to a new shooter is.

That man is not your "son".

All of us started out knowing nothing. Some of us started learning sooner than others. Some never will.

Help the man with what you know. Don't discourage him from excercising his God Given Rights.
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Old March 22, 2013, 12:49 PM   #18
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In no way am I advocating or talking down to him. He's not 18 yet and is still a kid whether you or anyone wants to believe or address it. I would love for him to own a gun and become involved in the shooting community especially in light of how we are portrayed by the mass media. That right, requires maturity, understanding and knowledge of what you are doing, something that hasn't come across in the lines of inquiry to date. Just being old enough to buy a firearm doesn't mean you should, at least not until you have the proper training and confidence to do it safely.

Blindly encouraging him to go out and buy X,Y or Z just because he's had a birthday, its his right and bringing another into the fold is irresponsible. Making sure that he has to tools and guidance to make an informed decision so he is responsible is the only way to proceed.

Nothing I told him was in any way meant to be derogatory, even the "son" remark. I'm 40 and been involved with guns all my walking life, he's 17 with zero knowledge. It was meant to express the sincerity of my remarks, nothing more, nothing less.
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Old March 22, 2013, 12:52 PM   #19
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Dboy007, it does sound like you still need quite a bit of information on both firearm selection and other issues. By all means, make yourself at home here at TFL. We've got various forums on both the firearms issues, the legal issues, and just about everything else. Ask questions. We may not have all the answers, but I'll promise you that we have some of them.
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Old March 22, 2013, 01:13 PM   #20
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Salty, IME the way to get a male teenager to act like a man is to treat him as you (a man) would expect to be treated.

Though I'm just a tad older than you, I would not cotton to being called "son" by anyone who was not my parent, or acting in that capacity..... I doubt you would, either.
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Old March 22, 2013, 01:42 PM   #21
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I call my 17yo nephew and young men in the youth department at my Church "son" all the time. Nothing derogatory about it, means I sincerely care about your decisions. Same thing here. Lets not split hairs on a mundane issue.

Simple put from the questions, line of inquiry and responses he is trying to make a decision to buy, a potentially deadly tool in the wrong hands, a gun without the proper knowledge of his potential purchase. I and it looks like others are beginning to advocate that he now be so hasty or in a hurry to make a mistake and instead learn more about his proposed purchase.

I don't know much about an AK and don't really care too. I thought about buying one at one point but will instead just buy an AR config that works with the 7.62X39 chambering. I do however know about safety and teaching the unfamiliar how to safely and responsibly deal with a firearm.
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Old March 22, 2013, 02:44 PM   #22
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though no offense may have been intended "son" has been used as a derogatory term in the past and without the benefit of seeing your expression and hearing the tone of your voice it is entirely possible that it could be taken the wrong way.

I agree with you that gun ownership is a large responsibility and educating yourself beforehand does a great deal to empower a first time gun buyer and helps raise a red flag on unscrupulous salesmen that are looking to earn a quick buck by preying on an uneducated young man however there is a time and a place for everything and pushing one topic while another is being discussed may serve to intimidate or confuse rather than the intended purpose of helping.
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Old March 22, 2013, 04:04 PM   #23
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As I said, nothing derogatory was meant by it. I simple would hate to see him make a mistake because of a want and end up with an inferior product. Its his money and he is free to spend it as he sees fit. However when he becomes a firearm owner, then his decision is a direct reflection on all the rest of us in this day and age, the it is all of our responsibility to steer him in the right direction. He came to this board for advice, admittedly I don't have much to offer on the AK but I do on responsible gun ownership.

I guess your location might have something to do with whether or not the term "son" is an insult. Where I am, it isn't. "Boy" on the other hand is a slap in the face to any male over a certain age.

I'm not trying to hurt feelings or turn the young man off, just convey a sense of responsibility to him. We aren't talking about a car stereo or a pair of shoes here, were talking about a gun. In fact we are talking about one of the guns getting a ton of bad press these days.
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Old March 22, 2013, 04:35 PM   #24
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Dboy007
Welcome to TFL first off. Second... slow down a tad, young feller. Take a breath. Use a comma or a period once in a while.

Get to the library and check out CJ Chivers book The Gun

http://cjchivers.com/aboutthegun

Read up a bit.

Start buying magazines now!!!(snicker... if and when you can find any) Ammo too (snicker, snort... when you can find any)

THEN, once the panic buying is over and you have saved up tons of money, have read up a lot and now own a few magazines and a few hundred rounds of ammunition, look up Saiga, Arsenal and AMD65s, heck even a WASR or PAP.

You need to decide now... 7.62x39 or the skinny russian 5.45x39 in your AK? This will be a constraint you need to determine. Hole size making devices you want to send downrange.

Point to ponder. SKS, cheaper than most AKs, same round as the AK (only in 7.62, not in 5.45) install Tech Sights... shoot an Appleseed or two. Keep saving for that AK (Arsenal converted Saiga).

Ah to be almost 18 soon... again. Lucky you sir. I do recommend Chiver's book and his blog. Nice punctuation he uses.

Hopefully you and/or your parental figures have a friend or three who own an AK or two to take out and "familiarize" yourself with? Hopefully?
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Old March 24, 2013, 05:57 AM   #25
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To OP. Maybe try a few rifles out before settling on one in particular. Don't let the so called knowledge thrown at you in this thread be your end, only where you begin. Cull through the remarks and nonsense to pick out what to you makes sense.

If the market were its usual predictable self I would tell you to buy "X" rifle and see if you like it, if you don't, you can always sell it for near what you paid for it and buy something else, but today's market is pretty inflated and uncertain.

Depending on what uses you have in mind there are a number of rifles which will suit you well. Perhaps start there, being honest with yourself about your legitimate uses. Once you have those nailed down, there will be a tool that will do most of them well, then you have determined which tool to get.

Good luck and welcome aboard.
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