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Old March 28, 2013, 06:58 PM   #26
kahrguy
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In there day the rem and browning pumps were great rifles and cost was almost as much as a decent bolt rifle. Today there cost more than a better bolt rifle, bolts are easier to strip down for cleaning, triggers are better and more bolt rifles tend to be more accurate. Also with practice a bolt rifle is quick to bolt in rounds and fire. besides to day 300 bucks can by a solid bolt rifle. that will only buy a beat pump rifle. You can also buy a 6lb bolt rifle not happen with a pump.
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Old March 29, 2013, 08:01 AM   #27
Jack O'Conner
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Remington slide action rifles are immensely popular with Pennsylvania woodsmen. Most popular chambering on the used rack is 30-06.

This local shop has two for sale: MUSSERS Outdoors 717 738 4800

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Old March 29, 2013, 11:03 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauser8mm
If you are looking for accuracy, this should help you...

Accuracy if effected by the amount of moving parts, and in a pump action there is a lot. In a bolt action, there are some but not many. In a break action, there are very few moving parts, therefore it is the most accurate. A bolt action is the SECOND most accurate, and a break action is the FIRST.
Following this line of logic, it's obvious that the first most accurate rifle is a traditional style muzzleloader where the only moving parts are the hammer and sear.

Wait! It just occured to me that a muzzleloading cannon has zero moving parts.

Last edited by B.L.E.; March 29, 2013 at 11:11 AM.
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Old March 29, 2013, 09:37 PM   #29
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Get the one you like the best. Have known people that like the bolts better but, have also known a few that prefered the pumps. As far as acccuracy goes, a few of them "good ole boys" in western PA can do some truly amazing shooting with a pump 30-06:. Go to the LGS and set one of each on the counter. Handle both, shoulder both, and work the actions, get the one you like the best.
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Old April 4, 2013, 09:08 PM   #30
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I had a pump Remington. I liked it so well I sold it very, very, very, shortly after buying it.
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Old April 5, 2013, 05:47 PM   #31
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Pumps are not for people that have difficulty , walking and chewing gum at the same time ! For me , they are the perfect deer rifle .
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Old April 5, 2013, 07:09 PM   #32
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I'd sure like to get hold of one of those Browning pumps, the BPR.
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Old April 5, 2013, 09:28 PM   #33
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The Bolt action lets You pull the bolt out and look down the barrel. I like that. The Pump would be nice for a quick follow up shot. Both action types are good its up to whatever You like best
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Old April 5, 2013, 10:51 PM   #34
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One old sap, had nothing to do with not being able to walk and chew gum. A pump is no faster than a good bolt action and not half as accurate. To be fast with a bolt, you definitely have to be able to walk and chew gum. I cant remember the last time I needed to be fast hunting because I never need a follow up shot. If I am hunting hogs, thats what Armalite designed the AR for.
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Old April 6, 2013, 02:15 AM   #35
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I bought a takedown BLR for Alaska in 450 Marlin, and it is also made for other hot calibers in a lever gun that locks up like bolt gun and shoots very well.
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Old April 6, 2013, 04:05 PM   #36
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You Said What ?

reynolds357 A pump isn't any faster than a bolt ? Evidently you have never witnessed someone shoot one , that knew what they were doing . Your skill with a bolt gun must be legendary in your parts ! As far as accuracy goes , my pumps will hold their own against any off the shelf bolt action . I very seldom need a followup either but I like having one ready to go , without moving my hands on the rifle . A bolt is just not practicle , for my style of hunting , and the terrain and weather that I hunt in . I have a bunch of bolt guns and they are fine where speed isn't a requirement , or the target (game/varmint) is way out yonder , they're perfect ! Happy hunting my friend , keep your powder dry !
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Old April 6, 2013, 06:02 PM   #37
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Someone above observed that it was more expensive to put a good trigger on a pump than a bolt.

http://www.barnesgunparts.com/reming...-760-740-.html

My 7600P has one of these installed and the trigger measures 3 lbs on an RCBS spring scale. It gives a nice crisp break with no creep. In fact, the 7600P has a better trigger than my pre-64 Winchester model 70 featherweight. If I were going to shoot the as yet unfired model 70, I could get a nice Timney installed for around a hundred bucks.



Some observe that bolt actions are more accurate than pumps. In absolute terms, that's true, however at practical hunting ranges, a deer or pig cannot tell the difference.

After shooting Remington Pumps shotguns and rifles for over 50 years, I am perfectly happy with one. I do have some very well made bolt actions rifles that would be more suitable for varmints at 400 yards, but I don't have to pick one over the other. At 25-100 yards, the range at which I see and kill deer on my property, a pump in .308 is more than adequate. For extreme conditions in swamps and bayous, I favor my Handi-rifle in 30-30.

I have a nephew who bought a Savage Axis in .30-06. After listening to him brag for months about how great and accurate his rifle was, I challenged him to a shoot-off. At a hundred yards, he was shooting 3-4 inch groups, my 7600P, wearing the same size scope as his Axis was giving 2-3 inch groups. I would observe, however, that my Remington Pump cost twice as much as his Savage Axis. There is no doubt in my mind that he will trade his axis in on a Remington pump when he gets the financial means to do so.

Last edited by jaysouth; April 6, 2013 at 06:09 PM.
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Old April 6, 2013, 09:07 PM   #38
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Old Sap, you must have never seen anyone proficient with a bolt. A bolt used to be an infantry rifle and there have been some very fast people with bolt rifles through the years. My favorite off the shelf bolt action will consistently shoot under 6" at 1K yards.
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Old April 6, 2013, 10:51 PM   #39
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As long as our services used bolt action rifles they were used in a single shot mode with the magazine cutoff system. The cut off could only be disengaged by the order of a commanding officer when mass fire was in order. This changed with the advent of WWII when the cutoff system was ignored and troops were allowed to reload at will.

when self loaders came along (garands and carbines) fire discipline was still rigorous and embraced slow deliberate aimed fire.

If you like bolt actions, goodonya. However, an experienced shooter and hunter is not handicapped by the use of a single shot, lever, or pump rifle. If you have a wonder rifle that shoots 6 inches at 1K, goodonya again. However, the vast majority of game in this country is harvested under a hundred yard, making the use of super accurate rifles kind of a moot point.
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Old April 7, 2013, 07:16 AM   #40
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Jay, If you follow my posts through this entire thread, you will discover I am not a proponent of rapid fire for hunting. That would be someone else. 6" at 1000 bolt rifles are most definitely not "wonder rifles." They are quite common actually. A pump that is 6" at 1000 would definitely be a "wonder rifle."
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Old April 7, 2013, 09:17 AM   #41
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All different rifles actions have their place in many types of shooting. As far as the question of accuracy goes, attend any serious bench rest competition around the country and I will guarantee that every gun will be a bolt action.
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Old April 7, 2013, 10:15 AM   #42
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Quote:
Old Sap, you must have never seen anyone proficient with a bolt. A bolt used to be an infantry rifle and there have been some very fast people with bolt rifles through the years. My favorite off the shelf bolt action will consistently shoot under 6" at 1K yards.
You have seen some shooters manipulate a bolt action quickly - but this does not translate into the bolt action being quick to fire, especially with any accuracy. Having to let go of, then later re-engage the trigger is a major factor in the four separate motions necessary in order to shoot a follow-up shot with a bolt action. This does not lead to a combination of speed - and accuracy.

One would seriously doubt that, with shooters being equal, anybody could keep up with the rate of fire - and accuracy while doing it - of a good pump with any bolt action rifle ever made.

Why is quick, accurate fire important? - Sometimes the game animal needs a second shot, right then and there - and sometimes they do not pose for you but instead are rapidly heading into thick brush. In such a situation, a good sportsman is more concerned about a quick, accurate follow-up shot than he is about stunt shooting at 1,000 yards - and rightly so.

A sportsman puts the animal first, realizing that good intentions does not always lead to a one-shot kill, in much the same way that elaborate and certain battle plans do not always hold up in the fog of battle.

Since most game is taken at 100 yards or less and not at 1,000, there is a lot to be said for the responsible hunter considering a design that will give him the fastest, most accurate follow-up shot possible at those ranges, and that design is not the bolt-action rifle, which is only marginally quicker for fast, accurate fire than a good single-shot.

Then there is reliability to consider. If an autoloader jams after the first shot, then the second shot will be mighty slow in coming. And, as we all know, autoloaders jam more often than any other design, period. So, once again putting the animal first, what you want is the ability to reliably deliver a second shot if necessary, as quickly and accurately as possible, at ranges most often encountered in hunting situations.

The surest route to that is either the lever or pump action rifle.

I use a BLR in .308 Winchester - but that's just me... I will readily acknowledge that the pump aficionados here have the facts on their side.

Last edited by PVL; April 7, 2013 at 10:33 AM.
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Old April 7, 2013, 10:24 AM   #43
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Quote:
In the Remington brand, one may be just as accurate as the other. A 700 can be rebarreled easly. Not so with a Rem 7600 pump.
umh are you sure? I have seen several over here in Sweden that comes with two barrels.

for a period in the past they were very popular in a certain rifle discipline (running deer)
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Old April 7, 2013, 10:38 AM   #44
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A friend of mine and I were in Newfoundland moose hunting a few years back. He was a few thousand yards from me on another slope when I heard 3 shots so close together that I thought it was a semi auto. He was carrying a 700 in .270.
The bulls were in the rut and a young 5 year old charged him and he put the 3 .270's the size of a pie plate in his chest. So much for thinking a bolt action is to slow for repeat shots.
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Old April 7, 2013, 11:28 AM   #45
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It's all about application. A pump puts you back on target by pulling your muzzle out of recoil and down as you pump forward you never have to remove trigger hand. However they suck to shoot from a rest . I only have experience with a Remington 7600 they are just as accurate as the stock Remington 700 and yes they trigger can be made "good" mine is 2.5lbs with very little creep and no over travel. I am not knocking bolt actions if your shooting from a tree stand or window of a blind bolt is probably better.
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Old April 8, 2013, 08:37 PM   #46
reynolds357
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Z MAX, a particular 7600 might be as accurate as a particular 700, but the 7600 in general is no where close to as accurate as the 700 in general. I can guarantee you that the most accurate 7600 in the world is not even close to being as accurate as the top 10% of 700's.
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Old April 9, 2013, 12:24 PM   #47
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My Father always shot a 7600 in 30-06 (many deer wished he didnt) and when I turned 15 he bought me a brand new one. His has now been handed down to my son. They are 100% reliable, first and second shot are right on the money every time. Mag fed, light enough. On those first 2 shots I would put either one of mine against any bolt gun. After that they tend to wonder around the paper pretty good. If your hunting Whitetail with a 30-06 you should never need more than the first shot anyway. If you want to use it at the range you may want to consider bolt or other.
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Old April 13, 2013, 08:18 AM   #48
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Never owned a 760 or 7600, but have often been loaned them by some friends who did. I found them completely reliable and plenty accurate. And they are very natural to handle and shoot if you are used to pump shotguns.

They are a lot like Chevy pickups, not for snobs, but damn useful.
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Old April 13, 2013, 08:21 AM   #49
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I have the Rem 760 Gamemaster in .06 and it's an awesome deer rifle for in the woods. Not to heavy, and that pump action gives you nice follow up shots if need be. I have my scope sighted in with 150gr. loads, but the 180 shot true through the peep sights that were on mine. Keep in mind I only need to reach out 100-200 yards absolute max.
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Old April 13, 2013, 08:40 AM   #50
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If you shoot PA shotguns a lot, the transition to a PA rifle is pretty easy....muscle memory & all.

I'd always thought Remington missed out on a great opportunity when selling 870's to LEO agencies by not including a "tactical-ized" version of the 7600 as part of a package deal.
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