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Old March 10, 2013, 08:15 PM   #1
kutz
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Never Fired

If a gun is fired at the factory only,for testing,is it considered " never fired."
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Old March 10, 2013, 08:44 PM   #2
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Never means never.
It can be considered new if it was never fired after it left the factory but if you aren't the original buyer most prospective buyers will consider it used if it is a gun still in production.
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Old March 10, 2013, 08:48 PM   #3
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I believe most will accept a new gun as "unfired."

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Old March 10, 2013, 08:52 PM   #4
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As far as I know, all guns are test-fired at the factory. Any rounds fired at the factory (and for a handgun, the total will probably be between 2 and 6) do not make it a "used" gun. It is BNIB when you buy it, as long as the dealer or distributor did not add a few rounds to the total...and honestly, you probably would never know unless you were an employee of the shop.

In similar manner, your new car was driven from the assembly line onto a storage lot, then onto a truck, then off the truck and onto the dealer's lot. It might have 1.4 miles (or .6, or whatever) on it when you go to look at it at the dealer's showroom. If it has 126.4, that is different.

I have read that Corvettes and some Honda motorcycles are also chassis dyno'ed before leaving the factory.
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Old March 11, 2013, 12:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
In similar manner, your new car was driven from the assembly line onto a storage lot, then onto a truck, then off the truck and onto the dealer's lot. It might have 1.4 miles (or .6, or whatever) on it when you go to look at it at the dealer's showroom. If it has 126.4, that is different.

I have read that Corvettes and some Honda motorcycles are also chassis dyno'ed before leaving the factory.
Just as the above argument only applies to certain parts of the country, making generalized statements about factory test-firing (or proof testing) is only situationally applicable, as well.

Some firearms companies don't proof-test or test fire their products. After all, they don't have to - there is no requirement to do so in the United States.

A couple companies have been rumored to fire only standard-pressure ammunition for their test firing.

And, a few companies sometimes go above-and-beyond, actually performing a rough sight-in and accuracy check.

Some companies will swab residue out of the chamber(s) and barrel afterward, but most do not. With any near-new firearm, just getting rid of fouling in the bore and chamber will make it look "New, Unfired" again.



Just like cars...
Around here, a Ford vehicle is transported by rail, driven to a storage lot, then transported by truck to the dealership. The average Ford/Lincoln/Mercury has 17 miles on it, brand-spankin'-new and fresh off the truck.

Yet, their neighboring GM/Cadillac/Chevy dealers will have vehicles with an average of 38 miles on them. That's because the GM dealers don't transport from the storage lot by truck - they send a van full of salesmen and detailers up to drive the vehicles back (it's cheaper, and makes their "destination charge" more profitable).

But, if you go downtown to the Maserati dealer, the new cars coming off the truck show 0.0 miles on the odometer. Even though the car was given a far better post-production inspection than the GMs or Fords, then dyno'd and track tested, the odometer was not activated until the receiving dealer re-flashed the computer.
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Old March 11, 2013, 12:51 AM   #6
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Most will consider a new gun unfired.

Most guns are fired before they leave the factory, although, I am not sure that Taurus fires theirs or otherwise they would have to be run through the repair shop before going out to the distributor.
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Old March 11, 2013, 01:11 AM   #7
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Gun is fired generally twice from factory to insure proper testing, hence 2x bullets from guns. I guess I could go to the range and shoot it once or twice for "test fire" and say its "NIB" because I only "test fired it same as the factory did..

You can see if a gun is test fired from factory,
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Old March 11, 2013, 06:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 357autoloader
Never means never.
It can be considered new if it was never fired after it left the factory but if you aren't the original buyer most prospective buyers will consider it used if it is a gun still in production.
I disagree.

I have never encountered anyone who considers a pistol that's new in the box from the manufacturer to be "fired," even though everyone knows that most manufacturers test fire their pistols.

As to previously owned, it is certainly not unheard of for people to own firearms for several years or more, never fire them, and then sell them. They are typically advertised as either N.I.B. (which I do not think is appropriate for a second-hand firearm) or L.N.I.B., unfired. What possible difference does it make if a gun is still in production? Isn't it more likely that a gun you CAN'T buy a new copy of would have been fired?

What you seem to be saying is that "most" prospective buyers would consider me to be a liar if I were to offer my L.N.I.B. and unfired (by me) Ruger Blackhawk for sale as "unfired." I certainly hope you are wrong about that.
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Old March 11, 2013, 06:14 AM   #9
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A factory test fired gun is considered new and never fired by the by the end users.
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Old March 11, 2013, 06:48 AM   #10
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I disagree.

I have never encountered anyone who considers a pistol that's new in the box from the manufacturer to be "fired," even though everyone knows that most manufacturers test fire their pistols.

As to previously owned, it is certainly not unheard of for people to own firearms for several years or more, never fire them, and then sell them. They are typically advertised as either N.I.B. (which I do not think is appropriate for a second-hand firearm) or L.N.I.B., unfired. What possible difference does it make if a gun is still in production? Isn't it more likely that a gun you CAN'T buy a new copy of would have been fired?

What you seem to be saying is that "most" prospective buyers would consider me to be a liar if I were to offer my L.N.I.B. and unfired (by me) Ruger Blackhawk for sale as "unfired." I certainly hope you are wrong about that.
No, no. I think you misunderstood his post. Here it is again below:

Quote:
Never means never.
It can be considered new if it was never fired after it left the factory but if you aren't the original buyer most prospective buyers will consider it used if it is a gun still in production.
He is saying that if you don't fire it AFTER the factory, then its considered new, but even so, if you are not the original owner, it will be considered a used gun. I assumed that the "Never means never" of course meant after leaving the factory.

If the gun is only test fired by the factory, it is still "unfired" by the owner until he or she fires it. We don't know what kind of rounds the factory uses, and really, if gun X is tested by the factory, then the "never fired even by the factory" thing is out the door for every gun X, which means they're all the same, when brand new, so the term "unfired" referring to post factory firing makes much more sense. When its "unfired" after the factory, it is a modifiable trait, whereas test fired, for gun X, is not modifiable because the factory likely does it for each gun X.

I think a gun that is NIB and not test fired by the factory should be worth the same, and considered the same, as a gun that NIB but test fired by the factory. It only makes sense.
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Old March 11, 2013, 09:14 AM   #11
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In similar manner, your new car was driven from the assembly line onto a storage lot, then onto a truck, then off the truck and onto the dealer's lot. It might have 1.4 miles (or .6, or whatever) on it when you go to look at it at the dealer's showroom. If it has 126.4, that is different.
Didn't work that way for me. I just bought a new pick-up from a dealer with 142 mi. The truck I wanted was located at another dealership in another city. The mileage added bringing the truck to my dealership wasn't counted for warranty purposes. When the paper work was filled out the warranty portion was just moved to that mileage for a start. My truck's warranty is BtoB to 35142.
I don't care what the mileage is, it's the warranty I want to be covered on.
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Old March 11, 2013, 09:47 AM   #12
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I was at Smith & Wesson years ago and watched as they test fired revovlers. Six rounds were fired at a bullseye target for accuracy, and the gun had to pass that test with a reasonable group or back to the plant. Autos were fired for functioning, firing one full magazine. No attempt was made for accuracy.

Revolvers, six rounds. Autos, one magazine. These are not "blue pill" cartridges, just factory ammo.

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Old March 11, 2013, 10:47 AM   #13
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I know several of my guns came with test targets so they were factory fired. I certainly do not considered them used. I also have guns that I have bought but never fired that I also consider new. While I enjoy reading about the car analogy, once a car is titled, it is considered preowned if it were to be sold. If a gun is purchased and never fired by the owner, I would say it is still new. It may be semantics, but we can just call it owned but never-fired for better clarity.
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Old March 11, 2013, 05:04 PM   #14
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I would have to dredge up my copy of The Blue Book of Gun Values to verify, and that would be difficult, but my recollection is that the Blue Book defines "New" as "Never previously sold at retail." For a pre-owned gun that is in pristine, like new condition, IIRC, the Blue Book says the correct terminology is "LIKE New In Box" (LNIB), to which can be appended "unfired" if the first and subsequent owner(s) never fired it.
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Old March 11, 2013, 08:06 PM   #15
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Didn't mean to start any disagreement, I did learn ?
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Old March 11, 2013, 11:33 PM   #16
357autoloader
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I disagree.

I have never encountered anyone who considers a pistol that's new in the box from the manufacturer to be "fired," even though everyone knows that most manufacturers test fire their pistols.

As to previously owned, it is certainly not unheard of for people to own firearms for several years or more, never fire them, and then sell them. They are typically advertised as either N.I.B. (which I do not think is appropriate for a second-hand firearm) or L.N.I.B., unfired. What possible difference does it make if a gun is still in production? Isn't it more likely that a gun you CAN'T buy a new copy of would have been fired?

What you seem to be saying is that "most" prospective buyers would consider me to be a liar if I were to offer my L.N.I.B. and unfired (by me) Ruger Blackhawk for sale as "unfired." I certainly hope you are wrong about that
Feel free to disagree. Unless you or I are the buyer of said "unfired gun" what we think doesn't matter.
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Old March 11, 2013, 11:37 PM   #17
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What possible difference does it make if a gun is still in production? Isn't it more likely that a gun you CAN'T buy a new copy of would have been fired?
DUH.
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Old March 12, 2013, 11:42 AM   #18
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A "new car" is new until it has been sold (the last new car I bought was damaged in the dealer's parking lot, before I could even lay eyes on it. They offered to order a new one, I could take the repaired car, or take one off the lot . . . which may also have been damaged and repaired, as the dealer does not have to divulge damage done before the car is sold).
Is a gun that has been in and out of a display case a hundred times, had the slide racked by a hundred people, still a new gun, just because it hasn't been fired? I'd say that gun is a lot less new than one that was fired a few times then put away.
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Old March 12, 2013, 10:17 PM   #19
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To continue to use the car analogy, a car is considered new until it is titled. So regardless of how many miles it has on it at the dealership, it is still a new car until a consumer purchases it from the dealership and gets the title transferred. Once that happens that car is considered used.

I look at weapons the same way, the gun is new until it has had the initial FFL transfer from the distributor/retailer to the consumer. So I can purchase a gun, take it home, store in my safe, never fire it, and later sell it, the best I can advertise it as is "Like New"
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Old March 14, 2013, 07:49 PM   #20
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At one point, S&W fired a proof cartridge for each chamber (5-10)
for a revolver, 1 for an auto pistol), plus a cylinder or magazine of standard cartridges for function testing.

Ruger did the same thing, and a Ruger rep once told me that they eliminated an extimated 99+% of customer service complaints that way and considered the cost well worth it both in PR and in nearly eliminating warranty repairs.

Today, with increased costs, I don't know if those companies still adhere to those testing prcedures, but even with the best quality control in manufacturing, I think they would still benefit by factory test firing.

Jim
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Old March 17, 2013, 11:54 AM   #21
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As far as I'm concerned, test firing at the factory (if done) is part of the manufacturing process, and does not count as being "fired".

Unfired condition means unfired after it has left the factory.
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Old March 22, 2013, 10:28 AM   #22
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I agree with the above post that unfired means after it left the factory.

I find fascinating that you can find unfired 50+ year old guns. I was lubing some of my collectibles and I have several 38/44's that have never been fired. Some have never even had the cylinder's turned to the best of what I can tell.
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Old March 22, 2013, 10:54 AM   #23
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I regret using the car analogy.

To be honest, I regret posing in this thread.

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Old March 22, 2013, 11:35 AM   #24
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Unfired condition means unfired after it has left the factory.
I agree with that statement but, I have seen guns that for all visible signs were an unfired gun, chamber and barrel and no cylinder ring.
But the gun had been beat round so much and had so many scratches I didn’t agree that it was the same as an unfired gun and did not buy it.
The only gun that would mean anything to me as an unfired gun would be a collector piece. But I don’t and won’t own any collector guns so condition is more important than fired or not.
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Old March 30, 2013, 05:00 PM   #25
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What I hate, is when someone buys a semi-auto pistol for their carry and home protection piece, after selling their revolver(they don't jam). Then they put ammo IN it, CARRY it, HANDLE it, SHOW IT OFF, for many years, then try to sell it as new, wanting a 'mint' price!
They say "It's unused, I never fired it! Is is brand new, never fired!" I think its CRAZY! For 1: you "used" it even if it wasn't fired by you. 2: Because you NEED to make sure a semi-auto is going to function correctly with the ammo you have for it, in case something bad DOES happen! And you need to practice anyway, to see where the sights have the bullets impacting. And you can train, to get used to the details of using the firearm! Like IF you have a jam, do you think a criminal is going to wait while you clear the jam?!
When a guy attempted rob me with a pistol, he was within reach, so i went hand to hand combat mode, disabled his hand and pistol, then drew my concealed SIG.40cal(I know it's overkill), and hit him hard right in the temple, KO'd.
I called the cops(thank The LORD for cell phones!) they came, he went to jail to await trial. You MUST be very familiar with every one of your firearms, and your ability!
Be safe and GOD Bless you and Our United States!
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