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Old March 23, 2013, 06:10 PM   #1
tynman
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Help with finding info on side by side shot gun.

I just bought a remington side by side 12 gauge shot gun, I would like to know any info I can find out on it like when was it made what is the value of it today and anything else. Pat date is Oct 30, 1894. So Im guessing its a model 1894. If Im wrong please let me know. I dont have the gun home yet to inspect for all numbers but I do have the serial # P135XXX. The numbers match and under the barrels once open there looks like a V which Im guessing is the grade. Where does the V grade stand? (low, mid, high end)
Thank you for your help.

I do have a couple of crappy store(bad light) pictures of the stock if needed.
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Old March 23, 2013, 06:32 PM   #2
Lucas McCain
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I am no expert by any means on Remington side by sides. But I have, over the years, seen a half a dozen or so in 10 ga. and 12 ga. and all of them were damascus twist barrels. If yours is that way I would advise you not to shoot it.
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Old March 23, 2013, 06:42 PM   #3
tynman
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I didnt see any twists in or on the outside of the barrel. I will post the picture of what I took of it.
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Old March 23, 2013, 07:00 PM   #4
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I know the butt stock plate isnt original but I will be looking for one. If some one knows where I can get one let me know.
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Old March 23, 2013, 07:26 PM   #5
BigD_in_FL
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better pics of the barrels - their patina could be mistake for one thing or another
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Old March 23, 2013, 07:28 PM   #6
tynman
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When I get it home in 5 to 7 days after my NIC check comes back I could get better pictures. Those are the best I have for now.
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Old March 23, 2013, 07:59 PM   #7
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You have a Remington Model 1894 Grade A (the lowest/plainest) SxS, probably made about 1897 - and the bbl's could definitely be damascus, since they were more highly regarded at the time than the (new) fluid steel bbl's.

The best way to tell bbl material is with an acid-type test (copper sulphate, IIRC) in a cleaned hidden area, like under the forend wood, which would show up any twist/grain.



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Old March 23, 2013, 09:03 PM   #8
tynman
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OK thanks for that info. I will look into it better under better lights once I get it home and clean it and take it apart. I will inform with what I find.
Where do I get that copper sulphate test from?

Does anyone know where I can get a original butt stock plate for this gun?
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Old March 24, 2013, 01:15 PM   #9
PetahW
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A test for damascus can be done @ home (outside), after cleaning (degreasing & sanding a small spot on the barrel(s), hidden under the forearm wood.

A swipe with copper sulfate (on a Q-tip) will show any damascus figure very quickly.

There are three main sources of copper sulfate:

One is from commercial products sold in local fish stores specifically to treat snail infestations.

The others are from hardware stores (gardening section- a treatment for pests and fungal infections in plants)
or
from pharmacies (as a disinfectant).


IIRC, original-type repro buttplates are available from Connecticut Shotgun's catalog. (Google)



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Old March 24, 2013, 01:20 PM   #10
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OK great thanks. I will have to find some copper sulfate. I will keep you posted.
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Old March 26, 2013, 02:30 PM   #11
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So what I have found out from remington the this is a model 1894 made in 1907.
The store I bought it from he says it is a steel bbl. (thats what he has told me cause I still dont have it home to handle it do to the wait on the NIC)
I think it is a grade A not a grade V like he said cause remington never made a grade V.
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Old April 3, 2013, 06:36 PM   #12
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Ok tell me if you think its damascus. The LGS where I bought it swore it was harden metal. Do you guys think it was worth $150 I paid for it?
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Old April 3, 2013, 06:38 PM   #13
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He are a few more pictures.
It is Grade A
I did clean it and lubed it up. I plan on going to shot it tomorrow.
No luck on the buttplate. I got one from homestade parts and its not wide enough and not long enough.... It is very hard finding one...
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Old April 3, 2013, 07:24 PM   #14
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Those swirls look like it is damascus or they wanted it to look like damascus...

If I knew I could shoot it with light or BP loads, I would own one like it...

Brent
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Old April 3, 2013, 07:51 PM   #15
Jim Watson
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The copper sulfate sure brought out the twist. Never heard of Remington doing what Greener called "sham Dam," I am confident that is the real thing.
The dealer was at best ignorant and at worst lied.
Remington made good Damascus but it was still Damascus and is over a century old.
I would think twice... and hang it on the wall just like the one on my neighbor's wall. Except his already has a chunk blown out of the left barrel. He was a gunsmith and kept it as an example to people who wanted these relics fixed up to shoot.
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Old April 3, 2013, 08:40 PM   #16
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Sure look like Damascus
Understand one thing - depending on its condition - and this needs to be done by someone who KNOWS old double guns - it might be shootable with light low pressure Vintager loads from the like of Polywad or similar, but ONLY after it has been checked for weakness, etc.
The Vintager loads are used by many folks who shoot older guns (some dating from the mid 1800s), and there are groups who get together for fun competition and shoot them.

If yours checks out OK, you might look into that - great to meet others who share the same passion and a great way to make connections for parts, etc.
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Old April 3, 2013, 08:54 PM   #17
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That is Damascus twist. No doubt.
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Old April 3, 2013, 09:08 PM   #18
tynman
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So you guy think the Damascus twist just wore off the top and sides of the barrel?
I have a few more pictures to maybe help with the ID and any other info I could find out about it.
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Old April 3, 2013, 09:09 PM   #19
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I am finding so many diffrent things about all the markings. So any help with the markings would be great.
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Old April 3, 2013, 09:22 PM   #20
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He also sold me estate dove and target loads for it. He said it was a weak load.
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Old April 3, 2013, 09:54 PM   #21
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Those estate are going to be a modern load and not low enough for your gun...

Brent
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Old April 3, 2013, 10:23 PM   #22
tynman
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hogdogs what do you recommend?
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Old April 4, 2013, 08:00 AM   #23
hogdogs
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What BigDinFl suggests... Inspection by a smith experienced in this sort of gun...

Than if it passes, I would fire the light loads he called "Vintager" as these are loaded to be safe in old guns that have passed inspection by a smith...

Brent
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Old April 4, 2013, 08:22 AM   #24
tynman
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OK thanks
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Old April 4, 2013, 10:59 AM   #25
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"IF" & when the gun passes an inspection by a qualified doublegun 'smith, and not some AR parts-changer, as being safe to shoot, at all - safe, low-powered specialty loads for those older shotguns are available commercially from RST, PolyWad, Kent Cartridge, GameBore & a few others.

NO other modern shotshells, including so-called "low brass", "field", and "target" loads are suitable for shooting in your Remington.

I regularly use RST shells in my 1911 Ithaca Flues 28ga SxS, and can attest to their utility.



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