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Old January 28, 2013, 09:10 PM   #1
Rick F
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Springfield Armory MC Operator Finish Wear

Hi guys.

I just purchased a Springfield MC Operator, and haven't even been to the range with it yet, but have been dry firing (with snap caps) quite a bit. Tonight I took a look and noticed some wear completely through the finish on the muzzle end, and also on the frame where it is making contact. Is this normal, and to be expected? For reference, my Kimber has no signs of wear in this area. It looks like the round cut in the frame isn't perfectly rounded on that side. Please look at the crappy iphone pics below. Thanks.

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Old January 28, 2013, 09:11 PM   #2
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:22 PM   #3
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I can't tell much from the pictures. What are you using for lubrication?
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Old January 29, 2013, 12:01 AM   #4
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Hi Dave. I'm using M-Pro 7 & it's lubed sufficiently. I can see the frame in the dust cover area is not machined perfectly round. And to reiterate, I haven't even fired it yet. I've prob racked the slide about 50x so far with snap caps, or slowly released without snap caps. I find this unacceptable for a $1350 pistol.
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Old January 29, 2013, 12:25 AM   #5
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Mine has no wear at all on the finish except on the rails where the slide rides. If you aren't satisfied with the pistol call Springfield and they'll take care of you.
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Old January 29, 2013, 12:35 AM   #6
Rick F
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Hopefully Springfield will step up. What should I expect of them? At this point, I don't feel I should be paying for anything, not even shipping it back. Everyone knock Kimber, but my Eclipse has not had a single malfunction for the 500+ rounds I've put thru her. Granted the slide stop and safety aren't very high quality, and the sights weren't adjusted from the factory, but the frame is as tight as can be, and the slide/frame fit on the rear is perfect. Makes the SA look like a joke.
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Old January 29, 2013, 12:53 AM   #7
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It's not uncommon to see a 1911 with a slight rub on the front of the slide from the dust cover. It's usually a tolernace stacking issue, but it doesn't affect function or accuracy. You can even find some non 1911 type pistols that suffer from it as well.
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Old January 29, 2013, 12:58 AM   #8
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Hopefully Springfield will step up. What should I expect of them? At this point, I don't feel I should be paying for anything, not even shipping it back.
They pay shipping both ways. You call them up and tell them the issue. They email you a shipping label and you pack up the gun and drop it off at the shipping facility. When it's done they ship it directly back to your home.
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Old January 29, 2013, 01:00 AM   #9
Rick F
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Thanks everyone. When I look at the frame, it appears it's not fully radiused at the 5 o'clock position. It's like there is extra material that was not machined out. I'm a little ****** as it's completely thru the finish already before I even fired a round. Again, I don't think this is acceptable for the price point.
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Old January 29, 2013, 07:53 AM   #10
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I would make sure you did register the pistol with them before calling. You can do that on line. Give CS a call and they should take care of things for you. If they return the same pistol you can get it shipped to your house. If they replace it, it will have to go to a dealer to be picked up. The dealer I would have it sent to is the one you bought it from.

I have a Range Officer with only a few hundred rounds through it so far. It's been great. There is a little finish worn off on the rails in places. The rails are a tight fit. It has a match grade barrel and is quite accurate too.

Try to speak nicely to the CS people and you probably will have them doing everything possible to make you happy.
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Old January 29, 2013, 02:44 PM   #11
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I left a message with SA. I will advise outcome when they call back. Thanks everyone.
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Old January 31, 2013, 02:18 PM   #12
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How long does it normally take to get a response from SA? Still haven't heard an answer to my email or voicemail. I waited on hold with customer service today for my entire lunch hour, and could not get through.
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Old January 31, 2013, 05:01 PM   #13
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Wow, they must be busy. I've had to wait on hold for a few minuets but never an hour.

I guess just keep trying, they are usually pretty helpful.
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Old January 31, 2013, 06:40 PM   #14
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They must be swamped. Their customer service is some of the best in the business. Keep trying till you get a live person and they should take care of you.

As an FYI..... They might want to see some better pictures of the problems before they decide on a course of action. I'd work on getting those so you can can provide them instantly.
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Old January 31, 2013, 06:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
As an FYI..... They might want to see some better pictures of the problems before they decide on a course of action. I'd work on getting those so you can can provide them instantly.
Definitely. I lost the stupid proprietary cable for my camera. I'm going to use the fiance's later. I really didn't want to because she bought me a new one that I returned, saying "I don't need that." We all know where this is gonna head with her lol.
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Old January 31, 2013, 06:57 PM   #16
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One of my friends who is the most serious shooter I know- I mean his dad runs the local range and they teach youth courses, etc. took a look at it, and in under a second saw how they messed up the machine work and laughed.

Sorry for the run-on sentence.
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Old February 5, 2013, 03:43 PM   #17
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:::::::: Update ::::::::


Today I received an email, FedEx return label, and a phone call from SA. I'm disappointed with the response time, but the call was courteous. I sent it out today, and hopefully I hear back quickly.

Now, for my question. If they refinish, will this pistol be in any worse shape than brand new? Is there a limit to how many times you would refinish a pistol? Based on my automobile experience, I would not own a repainted car (unless it's a custom hotrod) as the finish is never as good as the original OEM. Should I be concerned with that here?
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Old February 5, 2013, 06:39 PM   #18
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That is the Army Kote finish I think? If that is the case, I believe it is a spray on / bake finish and I can't imagine that if Springfield refinishes it, it would be a concern in any way.
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Old February 5, 2013, 07:29 PM   #19
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That is the Army Kote finish I think? If that is the case, I believe it is a spray on / bake finish and I can't imagine that if Springfield refinishes it, it would be a concern in any way.
Thanks Kreyzhorse. It is indeed Armory Kote.
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Old February 6, 2013, 04:42 PM   #20
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SA is the best CS in the industry.... I know.. I deal with all of them on a daily basis usually. SA has been really backed up, they also suspended our pro-staff orders (personal orders for dealers) for at least 60 days.

Just be patient with them, everyone is extremely busy, and you can blame your elected idiots... I mean officials for that. SA will make it right though... they always do.

I have their Lightweight Champion Operator, with Armory Kote as well... I love that gun. I know its not made as well as some of the higher end 1911's out there, but it certainly holds its own side by side with them.
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Old February 6, 2013, 05:05 PM   #21
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Little update

I sent an email asking about getting the front strap checkered (+/- $200), and they told me I would have to pay the price for this service, plus the price to refinish it ($80), plus return shipping ($15). If I just get the defect fixed, the refinish cost and shipping is free. I tried to explain to her that if I get the defects covered, they will be FREE, so why would I be charged for these if I pay for the checkering? I questioned the lady, and she reiterated her previous stating "checkering is not a defect."


She also said it will take 12 weeks, regardless of if I just get it fixed, or if I also get it checkered.


I'm am NOT a happy camper so far.
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Old February 6, 2013, 06:10 PM   #22
Rick F
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Here's my latest response from SA:

First, the repair dept. has to determine if the issues are warranty and then address them. That department usually quotes around 2 to 4 weeks. If you would like to have any upgrades done then it would go into the Custom shop. Machine checkering (an upgrade) is what takes +/- 12wks not the Repair dept. If the frame is not correctly machined and the Repair dept. has to refit slide to frame or any other work then it “usually” takes them 2 to 4 weeks. They will refinish in that department and all warranty work is of course free. The Repair/Warranty dept. would address issues that are under warranty and reship back to the owner of the firearm all free. Any upgrades goes into the Custom shop, such as Checkering which is running around 12 weeks – there is no rushing in this dept. If you have checkering done and it will require refinishing then the procedure is to charge for that cost and return shipping. I cannot override this procedure. I will forward this email to Mr. Williams and ask him to reply back to me or you with your request. The departments are separate. The Repair/Warranty all under warranty and the Custom shop a department of “upgrades” . If you have no upgrades done and the Repair/Warranty dept. finds your pistol to be all warranty then of course it will be repaired and returned with no charge.

So basically they have to do the warranty work, refinish, and return it to me. Then I mail it back, they strip it again, and do the front strap, and refinish? That is the type of bureaucracy only a liberal could create. I'm sorry, but this makes no sense to me.

I had an issue with my SIG a while back, and it was fixed under warranty. After I sent it, I asked the CS rep if I could add their "Action Enhancement Package." He said "no problem," asked for my CC#, and it was a done deal. He obviously didn't charge shipping becasue it was already covered under the warranty process. I thought I would go ahead and do the same thing here.

Maybe Mr. Williams will be able to do something here, as my experiences with his company and product so far have been gutter.
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Old February 6, 2013, 06:39 PM   #23
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I've waited patiently to see just how the tone of the thread as a whole was going to transpire from beginning to end. I don't think the end result is going to matter much at this point. Here's my assessment:

1. From the get-go it's obvious you're not going to be happy if a member of the Reese family would personally deliver your Operator when they're finished with the warranty work.

2. History on my business with them dictated they would have to "charge" me with upgrades on the gun and such like they're doing with you only to receive the finished product at my doorstep with an invoice showing a zero balance (minus the upgrade itself).

Quote:
So basically they have to do the warranty work, refinish, and return it to me. Then I mail it back, they strip it again, and do the front strap, and refinish? That is the type of bureaucracy only a liberal could create. I'm sorry, but this makes no sense to me.
That's not what I'm reading.

I'd sure like to see the full email to see the whole context of what Springfield is responding.
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Old February 6, 2013, 07:16 PM   #24
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Hello Shane. I've posted the correspondence below, from most recent to oldest like reading a regular email string. I've left out the earlier stuff citing the initial issues, and return authorization, etc for brevity. My responses are RED, hers are BLACK.

Hello Richard,

First, the repair dept. has to determine if the issues are warranty and then address them. That department usually quotes around 2 to 4 weeks. If you would like to have any upgrades done then it would go into the Custom shop. Machine checkering (an upgrade) is what takes +/- 12wks not the Repair dept. If the frame is not correctly machined and the Repair dept. has to refit slide to frame or any other work then it “usually” takes them 2 to 4 weeks. They will refinish in that department and all warranty work is of course free. The Repair/Warranty dept. would address issues that are under warranty and reship back to the owner of the firearm all free. Any upgrades goes into the Custom shop, such as Checkering which is running around 12 weeks – there is no rushing in this dept. If you have checkering done and it will require refinishing then the procedure is to charge for that cost and return shipping. I cannot override this procedure. I will forward this email to Mr. Williams and ask him to reply back to me or you with your request. The departments are separate. The Repair/Warranty all under warranty and the Custom shop a department of “upgrades” . If you have no upgrades done and the Repair/Warranty dept. finds your pistol to be all warranty then of course it will be repaired and returned with no charge.

Thank you,


Amanda


Hello Amanda,

I do not think you are understanding me here.

The frame is not correctly machined.The slide is rubbing against it, causing the finish to wear off on both the frame and slide. This is the defect I am referencing.

Since this is a brand new, unfired pistol, I am under the assumption that SA would be refinishing the pistol under warranty. That is why I am asking if I paid for checkering, why I would pay for the refinishing and the shipping, being these 2 charges should be accounted for under warranty.


Regards,
Rick




Checkering is a upgrade not a defect. Our factory pistols that have the checkering in production takes 12 wks also, at least. If you would like to email the Director of the Custom shop, that would be Mr. David Williams at davew@springfield-armory.com.

Thank you,

Amanda





Hello Amanda,

Thank you for your reply. I would understand paying the fee for the checkering, but I find paying additional for the refinishing (which presumably is covered due to manufacturer defects) and return shipping (which presumably is covered due to manufacturer defects). It is shipping back to me from the same place, no?

And just to be clear, even if I do not add any custom work, and it requires machine work due to defects, I will be waiting for 12 weeks?

Can you give me supervisor contact information?


Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Rick



Hello Rich,

The Repair/Warranty dept. is a separate department that will inspect your pistol for the issues listed below. When a pistol goes into the Repair/Warranty dept and is found to be under warranty, then there is of course no charge. The Custom shop is a department of upgrades and they charge a return shipping out of their dept. no matter if the pistol came in from Repair or not. The machine shop is running around 12wks for all departments. Since we are separate from the Repair/Warranty dept. the price for the upgrades are as stated below.

The difference between the checkering for hand and machine is that I tell people “if you want it perfect or you are a collector to go with the hand checkering”. The machine checkering is very nice and majority of the people will go with it. It is really your preference.

Let me know if I can help you out with any upgrades.

Thank you,

Amanda




Hello Amanda,

Thank you for the reply. I purchased an MC Operator brand new a few weeks ago, and have yet to fire a single shot. After purchase, I’ve noticed the frame is misshapen near the muzzle end, causing the finish to wear off on the frame (at 5 o’clock position if muzzle facing you) and on the slide.

I’m assuming SA will either be A.) sending me a different brand new pistol or B.) Re-machining the frame and re-finishing. I figured if its option B.) I could get this treatment done at the same time. I hope this 12 week timeframe does not apply to me! I would also assume I would not have to pay the refinishing fee or the return shipping either.

What is the difference between hand and machine checkering? My Kimber seems very harsh, while my SIG seems to have the checkering filed down a bit, almost like small pyramids. It’s nowhere near as aggressive.


Regards,
Rick




Good Afternoon Rick,

The image did not come through for the Custom shop to view. I can tell you that we offer machine checkering of the front strap 20lpi $150 (more aggressive) 25lpi $160 (a nice compromise between aggressive and fine checkering) and 30lpi $170 (fine checkering – the least aggressive of the 3) The frame would have to be refinished – Armory kote is $80.00 and the Custom shop charges a reprocessing/reshipping fee of $15.00 for a 2 day return. Please see the attached price sheet. The machine shop is running around 12 weeks +/-.

Let me know if there is something I can help you out with.

Thank you,

Amanda
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Old February 6, 2013, 07:25 PM   #25
Rick F
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I do not think I am being unreasonable here, but as ppl tend to be irrational when irritated, feel free to advise.

I paid $1350 plus fees and tax for this gun brand new.

I've spent well over an hour and a half between 4 attempts, on hold without getting anyone at SA to pick up.

I sent an email and left a voicemail amd waited a week to get response and a call back. (All of which were very courteous, and fast after the inital response.)

I had to buy a box to place it in, and drive half an hour to a fedex location to drop off.

Now I'm sure I'll have to wait a few weeks to get a resolution.

If they re-machine this one, I have to worry about the quality of finish. It's the equivalent of paying top dollar for a new car that I find out has been repainted. To me this gun has lost quite a bit of value already. Best case scenario is it's almost as good as new. If I wanted to sell this, I would inform the buyer of the history. If it was me, personally, I would walk away from it.

If I get a new one from SA, I have to pay to apply to purchase another handgun purchase permit. They took about 4 months BEFORE Obama was re-elected. I can only imagine how long it will take now.

I value my time and money, and so far this has a big f'ing headache.
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