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Old March 25, 2013, 06:03 PM   #1
triggerhappy2006
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Non-standard full frame pistol?

Okay so I'm trying to find a good full-size/compact semi auto. I don't want a 1911, M9, Sig, any Browning Hi Power or CZ based gun, XX06 Smith series are basically what I'm looking at but I wanted to see if there is anything I'm missing. I know there are only so many designs and basically you've go SIG P2XX series, 1911 and Variants, M9 and Variants, CZ75 and Variants, Glock/XD/M&P and Variants and finally Hi Power Variants. What other designs are out there? Desert Eagle in a reasonable caliber(9, 40, 357sig, 45, 10mm). I really like the Colt Double Eagle (its a 1911 variant yes, but it has a different trigger hammer setup, unlike the Para LDA which is a 1911 with a weird two stage type trigger), Third Gen S&W's are really intriguing me lately(yes they are based off existing designs but they brought new form to the table) and H&K's are unique but I'm not a fan of the polymer in particular...plus they just don't seem intrigue me right now(I'm a huge fan of the P30 and USP Stainless just looking for something else right now).
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Old March 25, 2013, 06:14 PM   #2
triggerhappy2006
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Here's the List I'm at so far

Taurus 800 Series-
Colt Double Eagle-1911 Derivative
S&W XX06 Series
HK P30 and USP
S&W/Walther P99(striker fire so not really a fan)
Walther PPX
Beretta Storm-M9 Derivative
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Old March 25, 2013, 06:36 PM   #3
Bart Noir
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Beretta Px4 is not same as Model 92 (M9). Whole 'nuther gun.

Stoeger Cougar (same as Beretta Cougar).

FN FNX is a DA/SA hammer fired gun.

Bersa has several models.

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Old March 25, 2013, 06:38 PM   #4
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There is something to be said about a 1006 or a 4506, neither of which I have, but both I want. I do have a 39-2, so I own, carry and shoot a slightly older, and smaller, version.

Maybe look into something Makarov, or similiar. Or Ruger. P-series Rugers are built like tanks. Lastly, FNH has some sweet, although polymer, hammer fired pistols like my FNP-9.
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Old March 25, 2013, 06:43 PM   #5
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I don't know how available they are, but there were some pretty cool South African guns.
Arsenal is making some new gun for the Russian military that looks interesting.
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Old March 25, 2013, 08:11 PM   #6
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Ok, so what's wrong with me? I have very few handguns (at the bottom of the lake) but two of them appear on your list of "non-standard" handguns: USP compact 9mm and Colt Double Eagle. I both bought new, so evidently I have a habit of picking non-standard guns.

Last edited by PatientWolf; March 25, 2013 at 08:59 PM. Reason: Grammatical
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Old March 25, 2013, 08:56 PM   #7
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Bart, I'm with you, Stoeger Cougar all the way. The Cougar 8040 I have has done nothing but impress me since the day I got it, and I preffer it over my wifes Beretta PX4 Storm (Cougar is heaver, less recoil despite the bigger caliber).
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Old March 25, 2013, 09:02 PM   #8
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If you want unique, non-polymer, and compact but heavy (shoots like full-size), and if you like HK, then you really should check out the P7 variants.
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Old March 25, 2013, 09:37 PM   #9
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Another vote for the Beretta/ Stoeger Cougar. I have the compact 9mm version (8000 L). GREAT pistol....and for the money, a true bargain.

Since you expressed an interest in the Smith and Wesson "XX06" pistols, I can speak about those, too. Any of the 3rd gen. pistols are excellent, with my personal favorite being the 6904/ 6906 (compact, 3.5" barrel, double-stack, 12 round capacity in 9mm). Excellent build quality, accuracy and reliability. Some of the best semi-autos ever made, in fact. They can usually be found at pretty good to excellent prices, depending on condition. IMO, these are the hidden bargains of the pistol world.
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Old March 27, 2013, 04:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Beretta Px4 is not same as Model 92 (M9). Whole 'nuther gun.
I'm pretty sure the PX4 uses the M9 fire control group, and I THINK it uses the barrel from the Cougar model. So yes, its a fancy polymer frame that looks different, but it was made by modifying existing Beretta Designs(I am aware that pretty much since the dawn of the 1911/Hi Power most guns have copied another gun in some shape or form).

The new Steyr is pretty decent looking.


Basically we are on our final deployment (of this generation most likely) and we want to do a unique det pistol, something we can customize with at LEAST hand grips, if not we could do the engraving on the slide but something that is not the typical hooaaah marine corps "I'm a badass" M9/1911. Last year they got some pretty awesome deals on DMPS 308 AR's, I'm really considering Ruger P89's or P90 but there are little after market support for those, I want something everyone can afford (Wilson Combat is a little out of the price range for an E-3) yet if someone wants a fully tact'd out match grade gun with bull barrel, hair trigger, a laser/light/taser, extended 1000 rd mag, and detachable lawyer, they can do it later.
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Old March 27, 2013, 04:31 PM   #11
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Anyone know what the EAA SAR ST10 is based off of? I know EAA likes to use the CZ75 as the building block for most of there guns, this one looks closer to a USP actually.
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Old March 27, 2013, 06:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
I'm trying to find a good full-size/compact semi auto.
I know there are only so many designs and basically you've got SIG P2XX series, 1911 and Variants, M9 and Variants, CZ75 and Variants, Glock/XD/M&P and Variants and finally Hi Power Variants. What other designs are out there?
Straight blowback, a la Hi-Point. (Hey, you asked.)
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Old March 27, 2013, 06:33 PM   #13
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Here is a "non standard" gun for you

http://www.bobergarms.com/

From the reviews I have heard they sound pretty good. They put a bull pup design and put it into a hand gun. They get a longer barrel in a smaller gun. The way it loads is pretty interesting.
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Old March 27, 2013, 07:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Straight blowback, a la Hi-Point. (Hey, you asked.)
DONE! I'll take 12....lol I actually already have 2 Hi Points and love them, while not as fancy as a AMT Javelina or HK P30, they certainly do what they were designed to do very well. I did forget that hi point managed to take the blowback PPK/Makarov design and do it up in a full size 45...props to them.
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Old March 27, 2013, 07:48 PM   #15
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ruger SR series and P series(I'm kindof fascinated with the P89 for some reason).
Beretta PX4 series.
even though you dont like the browning Highpower have you thought about arcus 98da(HP clone in DA/SA)
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Old March 27, 2013, 07:52 PM   #16
triggerhappy2006
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Those Boberg pistols are very interesting as well, they remind me of the Rohrbaugh series, micro 9mm with class, not sure which one I would get, I like the principle behind those. I do actually really like Hi Powers and considered the UK we are with carry those and Sig's as standard issue doing those up has crossed my mind. If there is a clone in DA/SA that might be all the more reason to do them depending on the price.
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Old March 27, 2013, 07:56 PM   #17
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they generally run around $300... they get pretty decent range reviews but they aren't as refined as the BHP.
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Old March 27, 2013, 08:04 PM   #18
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H&K P7


Not really anything else out there like it AFAIK, very non standard in a very standard caliber. They aren't made anymore but you can find them on gunbroker for $800 give or take.
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Old March 28, 2013, 12:29 AM   #19
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You state you don't want any 'cz or one of its varients' then you ask about the desert eagle in 9mm and .40. Did you know the IMI/IWI made baby desert eagle/Jericho 941 was a modification [improvement in my opinion] on the EAA Witness, which was a western european made CZ75? So, by asking about the desert eagle in those calibers, you are asking about a cz varient: unless you mean the polymer desert eagles in those calibers, which are updated cz varients.

What about a BUL or Caracal? Maybe an older Steyr M9?

Just thinking. I would also put the TT-33 in the size bracket you indicated, but it is a eastern european surplus weapon.
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Old March 28, 2013, 12:46 AM   #20
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The STI GP6 is quite a bit different than the standard. It does have a polymer frame.

Rotating barrel lockup but with a design that eliminates the need for the locking block that most rotating barrel lockup guns require.

DA/SA with cocked & locked capability. Nice single-action trigger (about 4lbs), better than average DA trigger. FULLY ambidextrous controls, windage adjustable rear sight.

Field strips to only 4 parts not including the magazine--the recoil spring guide is attached to the frame.
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Old March 28, 2013, 08:19 AM   #21
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Triggerhappy:

Yes the PX4 and the Cougar have the same rotating barrel, I like the technology, it seems to help increase the accuracy on the shorter barrels.


John,

That just looks like a more expensive version of my Cougar!
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Old March 28, 2013, 08:54 AM   #22
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You want different? I'll give you different.
  • Luger. AFAIK no other modern pistol uses a toggle lock. Of course, "modern" is a relative term for a pistol that was discontinued in 1943 other than a few uncommon commemorative editions, and the cost of admission has become rather high if you expect decent cosmetics.
  • Benelli B76. Although this pistol looks conventional, it is a delayed blowback design with a fixed barrel and a separate lever-delayed breech block within the slide. It's also one of the few postwar centerfire designs that uses the Luger grip angle.
  • Daewoo DP51. This pistol has a novel "fast action" trigger system that reduces the DA pull weight.
  • Steyr GB. This pistol utilizes an unusual gas-delayed blowback system that is intended to compensate for differences in ammunition power; it supposedly doesn't work well in practice, and causes the pistol to malfunction if fed certain types of ammo, but it's still a nifty idea. This pistol was also one of the first 9mm designs to feature a 15+rd mag (18rds) and polygonal rifling before a certain Austrian firm copied these features and made them ubiquitous.
  • Star 28 & 30 series or Megastar. These are fairly conventional DA/SA pistols other than the fact that the hammer will drop against the engaged safety. However, they are totally original designs that aren't directly derived from anything else, and the company's untimely demise ensures a finite supply of pistols and parts- for better or worse. The closely related Models 28 & 30 remain generally inexpensive, but collectors seem to be taking notice of the uncommon large-caliber (.45ACP or 10mm Auto) Megastar, and prices have been climbing.
Good luck!
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Old March 28, 2013, 09:14 AM   #23
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1) Get a Walther P99AS or PPQ.

2) Thank me later.
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Old March 28, 2013, 11:05 AM   #24
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^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

Actually, you guys will love the trigger on the PPQ. Take the slides off and get them to an engraver.
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Old March 28, 2013, 07:02 PM   #25
triggerhappy2006
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I always really wanted a SW99 in 45, is there a way to do the trigger conversion from the P99AS to the SW99? I know they are the same gun so I figure it wouldn't be hard, just a slightly beefed up frame.

Quote:
then you ask about the desert eagle in 9mm and .40. Did you know the IMI/IWI made baby desert eagle/Jericho 941 was a modification [improvement in my opinion] on the EAA Witness, which was a western european made CZ75? So, by asking about the desert eagle in those calibers, you are asking about a cz varient: unless you mean the polymer desert eagles in those calibers, which are updated cz varients.
I was refering to the actual Desert Eagle, Deagle, Handcannon, etc, not one the Jericho 941, and if I'm not mistaken the Jericho was originally released early '90s the Witness came around in the new millennium. My buddy showed me his CZ75D and Jericho 941 (imported by KBI not Magnum) and most of the parts looked interchangeable. Before the storm comes, yes I am aware the Desert Eagle is basically a rifle action on a pistol grip and I do respect it for its unique design however lacking in purpose it may serve to your average person.

Both the Steyr GB and the Megastar look pretty awesome, specifically the Megastar 10mm non-maintstream gun in a non-mainstream caliber thats a win by my standard
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