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Old April 16, 2013, 05:06 PM   #76
Mausermolt
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ive edited the amount of money i would like to spend to be up around 1500$ but no more. seems like if i want a good M1A thats about where i will be. ill probably get all three eventually, PTR91, M1A, and FAL(DSA) but for now i would just like the one that fits my fancy the most.

Also Killamenjaro, ive got plenty of bolt rifles in the calibers i like (aprox 12 rifles) and 2 AR's so i think im good unless we are talkin Milsurps

this will be mainly a range toy, shooting steel at long range, and Rock Chuck/other varmint that looks like he is aching for a bullet/Coyote, toy
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Old April 16, 2013, 06:49 PM   #77
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My next recommendation was a lottery ticket !

To me, the best ones out there are the HK91 or FAL, everything else is trying to reach those two standards.
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Old April 17, 2013, 09:53 AM   #78
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Love my FALs... But, The older I get, The heavier and louder they get.
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Old April 17, 2013, 07:51 PM   #79
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Yeah, when you're too old to move, and can't hear them coming, an FAL is definitely what you need to have !
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Old April 19, 2013, 10:35 AM   #80
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One carbine for the rest life. If you save a few more dollars and do some searching you can buy the best .308 battle carbine available. The FN SCAR 17s have everything you're looking for except price. MOA - no problem. Iron sights - yes. Light weight - yes. Low recoil - yes. $2800.00 - yes but worth it.
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Old April 19, 2013, 11:28 AM   #81
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One carbine for the rest life. If you save a few more dollars and do some searching you can buy the best .308 battle carbine available. The FN SCAR 17s have everything you're looking for except price. MOA - no problem. Iron sights - yes. Light weight - yes. Low recoil - yes. $2800.00 - yes but worth it.
Does the scar17 have the same buttstock as the 16? Ive read that the 16 had a little bit of a flimsy, plastic buttstock that wore down quickly.
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Old April 19, 2013, 09:20 PM   #82
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SIG AMT or rebarrelled PE57, followed by a folder BM59, then the 308 FN49. (my dream guns ). Most practical is the FNAR, IMO, which has served me quite well.

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Old April 20, 2013, 12:01 PM   #83
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My .02Cents worth.

Had 3 x FAL rifles.... Sold them.
Had 2 x CETME....... Sold them.
Had 1 x HK91/G3.... Sold it
Had 1 x RRA LAR-8.. Sold it
Had 1 x DPMS LR308. Sold it

Springfield Armory M1A.... Had 1, still have it, no optics, accurate, reliable, and simply fun to shoot.

Armalite AR-10T Carbine... Had 1, still have it. Various optics packages over the years. Rifle is extremely accurate and 100% reliable. Currently my favorite .308 rifle.

Don
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Old April 20, 2013, 02:58 PM   #84
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All around best 308 battle rifle

That's what I wanted also and after lot's of research that's what I got. But it isn't cheap.

1. It has 20" barrel for long range shooting.
2. It has a piston so it runs clean and cool. And if you drop it in the water it won't explode in your face.
3. It is NP3 coated so it needs no cleaning and no lubrication.
4. It shoots sub MOA at 100 yards 6 to 8" at 300 yards.
5. It has a gas plug that is adjustable for use with a suppressor.
6. I attached a Swarovski Z6 5-30 x 50 scope.

It is a POF (Patriot Ordnance Factory) and this is what it look like:



I've heard good things about the SCAR 17S but it is only available with a 16" barrel, not to mention that it is ridiculesly priced. To me a 308 with a 16" barrel is an oxymororn. The 308 is a long range bullet and you loose too much velocity/accuracy with a 16" barrel.
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Old April 20, 2013, 04:03 PM   #85
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Geez! i wish i had the kind of money to drop on Swarovski glass....for what you paid for that scope is over my budget for an entire rifle!
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Old April 23, 2013, 02:28 PM   #86
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I do fear that your price limitations are quite unrealistic if you dersire the best.

In my opinion, the very best 7.62X51 calibre fighting/sniping rifle is the Knight's Armament Co, SR-25. It was a favorite of the celebrated sniper Chris Kyle.

They are used extensively by U.S, Navy SEALS, and are quite popular with special operstions troops of allied armies.

Lewis Machine and tool is currently manufcturing a nearly identical rifle for British special operations forces.

IIRC, the British specification requires a rifle capable of engaging a human taget at ranges to 800 meters using standard M-80 ball ammunition.
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Old April 23, 2013, 05:55 PM   #87
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Quote:
I do fear that your price limitations are quite unrealistic if you desire the best.
Agreed. The best is not for those on a budget.
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Old April 23, 2013, 06:25 PM   #88
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Quote:
Ben Dover

In my opinion, the very best 7.62X51 calibre fighting/sniping rifle is the Knight's Armament Co, SR-25.
16" or 20"?

Makes me wish U.S, Navy SEALS had access to a piston driven CQB-16 type SEI in a Blackfeather "RS".
In collapsible form it's lighter than the 10.2 Lb. 16" SR-25, but it would weigh about the same if you made it a folder.
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Old April 23, 2013, 08:48 PM   #89
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In my opinion, the very best 7.62X51 calibre fighting/sniping rifle is the Knight's Armament Co, SR-25. It was a favorite of the celebrated sniper Chris Kyle.
There is so much wrong with this statement I don't know where to start, but I'll give it a shot.

1. Chris Kyle was in the Army, he didn't have the luxury of choosing a rifle. He used what they gave him.

2. The Army does not buy the best. They buy from the lowest bidder that meets their specs.

3. The SR-25 is still a gas impingement (GI) not piston impingement rifle.

4. Piston impingement are a major improvement on gas because they vent the carbon and heat outside not right back in the bolt. That translates to superior reliability and longer sustained rapid fire in battle. As some put it " GI guns poop where they eat".

5. A guy at my range has a KA SR-25, has the same 20" barrel length as my POF and is not nearly as accurate as my POF we have tested it. Not only that he paid almost twice what I paid.

6. Additionally the SR-25 is not NP-3 coated. NP-3 is a special electroless nickel-based finish for stainless steel that deposits sub-micron particles of Teflon in the pores of the metal thereby making self cleaning/lubricating.

7. If you drop an SR-25 in a puddle, your done. The water in the gas tube will cause the rifle to explode the next time it is fired, if not cleaned.

It is unlikely that the military will ever buy a rifle like a POF or scope like a Swarovski. Their standards are way too low. Maybe some special forces units, but not the whole military.

Please don't use the military as a benchmark for quality. Those of us that have been there know way better. For god sake they are still using the .223 which was intended for jungle fighting (low visibility, close quarter engagements). We haven't had a jungle war since Vietnam. As usual they are properly equipped for the wrong war. In a desert war like Iraq/Afganistan the extra range and penetration would save lives.

When my son-in-law was in Iraq they quickly discovered that they were at a disadvantage because when on patrol the enemy would pop up from behind mud walls. The .223 couldn't penetrate the walls but the Ak's 7.62x39 did, so they had to retreat behind corners. That's why the Army started taking M-14's (Korean war relics) and issuing two per squad.
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Old April 23, 2013, 10:36 PM   #90
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All around best 308 battle rifle

My vote goes for the M1a. Shot it, love it, don't have it, but want it.
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Old April 23, 2013, 11:23 PM   #91
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I recently met a Recon Marine who swears by this:



The thing has a great feel to it, and has the recoil of a .223.

It is a Socom 16 action and barrel in a Bulldog 7.62 stock made by ShortRifles.

If there is a "best" .308 battle rifle, this is it.
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Old April 23, 2013, 11:49 PM   #92
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Find a copy of Boston T Party's Gun Bible; he devotes almost 120 pages comparing various .308 battle rifles.
He can be a bit opinionated, but he does offer some very good insight in the debate.
Plus the rest of the book is a pretty interesting read.

Now the book was written several years ago so he only compares the M14, FAL, HK91, and the AR10.

http://www.amazon.com/Bostons-Gun-Bi...Boston+t+party
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Old April 24, 2013, 12:41 AM   #93
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I have no idea which rifle might be the best.

What I do know, though you might be well aware of it, is that so many of these types have been available due to the price of NATO 7.62 or .308 ammo.

The lucky guys are those who had the gun bug more than several years ago when it was so much cheaper than in the last four years.

If you don't have access to this, good luck, unless you have really cheap components to reload or a really large ammo budget.
Brass gets banged up a good bit by some of these rifles during extraction.
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Old April 24, 2013, 07:07 AM   #94
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Eppie, the M14 went into service 4 years after the Korean war ended, the relic you are thinking of must me the excellent M1 Garand.




allaroundhunter, those bullpup conversion kits are pretty slick. There are two kits available, BullDog 7.62 and the Rogue.

This was my Rogue with an 18" barrel.





The piston driven M14/M1A is probably the all around best 7.62/3.08 battle rifle design available.











.
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Old April 24, 2013, 08:19 AM   #95
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Quote:
1. Chris Kyle was in the Army, he didn't have the luxury of choosing a rifle. He used what they gave him.
Chris Kyle was a Navy SEAL, from what I understand just about anyone in SOCOM these days uses whatever the heck they please, their armory is like a buffet... Pretty much everything else in your post I agree with though.
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Old April 24, 2013, 08:40 AM   #96
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FAL's get too hot, too quickly. The stock triggers tend to be very, very heavy. I ND'd my AK into the dirt downrange because I pulled its trigger like I would on my FAL. I am just not a fan of 12+ pound triggers on rifles.

Get an M1A, SCAR, or upper tier AR-10 style rifle. You'll be much happier.
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Old April 24, 2013, 11:07 AM   #97
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Quote:
1. Chris Kyle was in the Army, he didn't have the luxury of choosing a rifle. He used what they gave him.
Negative, he was a Navy SEAL. He got to choose from a variety of SWS and he chose according to the mission that he was going on. He used a .308 up to a .50 BMG and everything in between. His longest confirmed kill was made with a .338 Lapua at over 2,000 yards.

He did not used what was given to him, he used what he asked for.
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Old April 24, 2013, 11:00 PM   #98
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I have seen no credible evidence to suggest that a piston operated system is in any way superior to Stoner's direct impingement system.

Petty Officer Chris Kyle was a United States navy SEAL.

His autobioraphy is available at Barnes and Noble.
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Old April 25, 2013, 04:36 AM   #99
led0321
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Re: All around best 308 battle rifle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eppie View Post
There is so much wrong with this statement I don't know where to start, but I'll give it a shot.

1. Chris Kyle was in the Army, he didn't have the luxury of choosing a rifle. He used what they gave him.

2. The Army does not buy the best. They buy from the lowest bidder that meets their specs.

3. The SR-25 is still a gas impingement (GI) not piston impingement rifle.

4. Piston impingement are a major improvement on gas because they vent the carbon and heat outside not right back in the bolt. That translates to superior reliability and longer sustained rapid fire in battle. As some put it " GI guns poop where they eat".

5. A guy at my range has a KA SR-25, has the same 20" barrel length as my POF and is not nearly as accurate as my POF we have tested it. Not only that he paid almost twice what I paid.

6. Additionally the SR-25 is not NP-3 coated. NP-3 is a special electroless nickel-based finish for stainless steel that deposits sub-micron particles of Teflon in the pores of the metal thereby making self cleaning/lubricating.

7. If you drop an SR-25 in a puddle, your done. The water in the gas tube will cause the rifle to explode the next time it is fired, if not cleaned.

It is unlikely that the military will ever buy a rifle like a POF or scope like a Swarovski. Their standards are way too low. Maybe some special forces units, but not the whole military.

Please don't use the military as a benchmark for quality. Those of us that have been there know way better. For god sake they are still using the .223 which was intended for jungle fighting (low visibility, close quarter engagements). We haven't had a jungle war since Vietnam. As usual they are properly equipped for the wrong war. In a desert war like Iraq/Afganistan the extra range and penetration would save lives.

When my son-in-law was in Iraq they quickly discovered that they were at a disadvantage because when on patrol the enemy would pop up from behind mud walls. The .223 couldn't penetrate the walls but the Ak's 7.62x39 did, so they had to retreat behind corners. That's why the Army started taking M-14's (Korean war relics) and issuing two per squad.
You should read more before you post
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Old April 25, 2013, 08:25 AM   #100
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allaroundhunter, SR420

I stand corrected. you're both right. The M-14 was issued after the Korean war and Kyle was a Navy Seal.

Regarding your bullpup choice. That is a pretty good one. I had an Keltec RFB (.308) for a couple of years and enjoyed it. I sold it because I couldn't get a longer barrel (16" was the only one offered).


I liked it because it was really compact and it ejected the case from the front, a real improvement from side ejection. It also had a piston with the adjustable gas plug, meaning that it was designed with a suppressor in mind.

If Keltec builds another model with a 20"+ length barrel I would buy it and send it off to have NP-3 coating applied to it. That would be another keeper for me.
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