The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 19, 2013, 11:13 AM   #1
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 5,689
AWB Removed From Base Gun Control Bill in Senate

http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/20...-gun-ban-bill/

Please don't get complacent. What happened is Feinstein was told that her AWB (S. 150) will not be part of the "base gun control bill" offered by Dems. This means that the bill that gets a floor vote will not have AWB language in it. However, Feinstein can still offer her bill as an amendment to this bill (or any other gun bill) and if she has the votes (50 or 60 depending on the procedural tactics used) it will become part of whatever bill she tries to attach it to.

The reason they did this is because the Dem leadership really wants registration and they are afraid that putting the AWB in the base bill will kill all of their gun control - and cause them to lose Senate races in 2014.

The game here is with the AWB separate, your not-so-Second-Amendment-friendly Senators can tell you in 2014: "I support the Second Amendment and voted against gun and magazine bans; however I continue to support reasonable, common-sense gun laws like (having you stupid hillbillies tell me what guns and magazines you own so that after I'm re-elected I can fix that) universal background checks."
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 11:47 AM   #2
speedrrracer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 261
Yeah, they'll try to backdoor it as an amendment, but it's still radioactive and won't get on board. Reid remembers '94.
speedrrracer is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 12:11 PM   #3
Gaerek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 939
Apparently the Universal Background Check bill will also not be a part of it either.

http://www.therightsphere.com/2013/0...ah-about-that/

Quote:
Democrat insiders say the universal background check, supported only by Democrats, will not head to the floor either.
You are correct, it's not time to get complacent, but this news is a big victory for gun rights. It appears that Harry Reid is an unlikely ally for gun rights. If registration were the plan, Reid won't kill UBC. Although we have nothing concrete, it looks like UBC won't have it's day on the floor either. I think it's almost as "radioactive" as the AWB is. Reid also knows, that being a purple state democrat, he needs these bills dead if he wants an even longer career in the Senate.
Gaerek is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 12:26 PM   #4
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 5,689
Let's hope the insider commentary is right as S.374 is much worse than just background checks and worse than any AWB. However, we still have to be alert and aware of amendments.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 12:35 PM   #5
Gaerek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 939
Agreed. We won't know for sure until the gun control package actually hits the Senate floor next week. I'm hoping that Reid's actions here kill any significant gun control law proposals for a while.
Gaerek is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 12:35 PM   #6
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 6,492
I don't feel real warm and fuzzy about universal background checks, but even that is preferable to registration. Registration is the first step on the road to confiscation.

The irony is that, in the days of the Founders, we had registration. Every able-bodied adult male was a member of the militia, and the commanding officer of each militia unit obviously needed to know what arms his troop would have at its disposal. Since in those days each member of the militia supplied his own rifle and basic ammo load, that meant that the militia commander had a registration of what his men kept at home for weaponry.

If I could actually believe that my state and/or local police department wanted to know if I have an AR-15 so they'd know who to call up in the event of a zombie invasion, I would support that. Unfortunately, I don't think that's quite what they have in mind.
Aguila Blanca is online now  
Old March 19, 2013, 12:43 PM   #7
JimDandy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,449
I didn't see a whole lot of registration in Schumer's BG Check bill, but you may want to read it Aguila. It's a train wreck. Gifts between immediate family are allowed, but transfers are not. So letting your kid shoot the 22 you own while he learns to shoot responsibly becomes a crime. You have to give him his own 22, he has to store it, etc. If you go plinking in the desert or national forest, you can't give anyone with you a turn shooting your newest aquisition (or any to be technical).
JimDandy is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 12:55 PM   #8
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 6,492
How do I "give" someone a firearm without "transferring" it?

Train wreck indeed ...
Aguila Blanca is online now  
Old March 19, 2013, 01:10 PM   #9
BarryLee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2010
Location: The ATL (OTP)
Posts: 2,756
While this initially sounds good I wonder if we would have been better off if the AWB proposals were left in the bill. Without it I think the main thing left is the ban on magazine capacity and this could make it much easier for some Senators to vote for those restrictions. They can now say they voted for “reasonable restrictions” without denying anyone the right to own a specific firearm.

Also, from a purely strategic standpoint restricting magazine capacity of rifles to ten rounds would significantly impact their popularity which might make them easier to ban down the road.
__________________
A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
- Milton Friedman
BarryLee is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 01:23 PM   #10
WeedWacker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2006
Location: Body: Clarkston, Washington. Soul: LaCrosse, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,532
Quote:
I don't feel real warm and fuzzy about universal background checks, but even that is preferable to registration. Registration is the first step on the road to confiscation.
UBC's could be the precursor to registration. Once checks are mandatory there will eventually be a bill or amendment to allow ATF to maintain records of when and who a NICS check was run on. Death by a thousand cuts? Be watchful.
__________________
- Weed
Disequilibrium facilitates accommodation.
9mm vs 45 ACP? The answer is 42.
WeedWacker is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 01:25 PM   #11
JimDandy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,449
Quote:
How do I "give" someone a firearm without "transferring" it?
I mean you can't temporarily loan your kid YOUR 22 under your supervision on a day/camping trip to the Natl Forest, or desert or unincorporated area. You have to buy them one of their own as a gift. Gifts can go back and forth all day long, but Dad can't take Jr Shooting, then take the gun away again afterwards so Jr doesn't have it unsupervised.
JimDandy is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 01:34 PM   #12
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 10,395
Quote:
I don't feel real warm and fuzzy about universal background checks, but even that is preferable to registration.
I can't see any sort of universal background check system working without registration.

How would law enforcement know a background check was conducted? That information would have to be recorded in some sort of persistent storage.

So yeah, it doesn't use the word, but registration is implicit.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change.
--Randall Munroe
Tom Servo is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 01:44 PM   #13
mayosligo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 301
AWB Removed From Base Gun Control Bill in Senate

This does 2 things:
1. Democratic politicians in pro gun states do not have to vote on the AWB and it could help them come election time.

2. Sets up a compromise chip to get on the fence, weak pro gun politicians the opportunity to cave on the UBC (which is a gun registry scam).

Also, the longer it went the more distasteful the random list of guns became.
mayosligo is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 01:59 PM   #14
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: TEXAS!
Posts: 1,431
2nd Amendment +1, Not-so-Feinstein -0-

A small but significant victory for the constitution :
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...03-19-13-51-09

If you believe in the Congressional Kabuki dance, then this was a minor victory.
If not it is a major victory.
__________________
!أنا لست إرهابي
TXAZ is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 02:09 PM   #15
2damnold4this
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2009
Location: Athens, Georgia
Posts: 1,344
It looks like the bill increasing penalties for gun trafficking and the school safety funding will pass the Senate but the renewal of the AWB is dead.
2damnold4this is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 02:11 PM   #16
tynman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 22, 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 279
Its a start....
tynman is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 02:15 PM   #17
dos0711
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2012
Location: Northeast, Fl
Posts: 245
Don't be lulled into a false sense of victory...this is probably just a strategic move.
dos0711 is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 02:15 PM   #18
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,126
Threads merged.
__________________
A gunfight is not the time to learn new skills.

If you ever have a real need for more than a couple of magazines, your problem is not a shortage of magazines. It's a shortage of people on your side of the argument. -- Art Eatman
Spats McGee is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 02:24 PM   #19
Yankee Traveler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 17, 2008
Location: Middle Tennessee
Posts: 232
This is a huge victory, but as said, it will not end. Guard the back door just as well as the front!

Back to writing my Reps!!







But...why I gotta be a stupid hillbilly?
Yankee Traveler is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 03:09 PM   #20
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,734
You can expect heavy pressure for state laws like NY or CO to be passed.

The only reasonable stop is another round in the SCOTUS and perhaps this time Scalia and friends won't be so loose with reasonable restrictions.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 03:16 PM   #21
adamc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2013
Location: Stalingrad Connecticut
Posts: 216
You forgot Connecticut's Gov and Senators will chime in.....to further the push

Don't trust them....


it isn't over until the PLUMP lady sings, AND I'm NOT Talking Hillary
__________________
**** NRA Life Member *****

Connecticut was the Cradle of the Gun Industry, NOW it is just a Pine Box,
Courtesy of our Governor "Chairman MAO Malloy"
adamc is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 03:26 PM   #22
harrys ghost
Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 67
“Right now her amendment, by the most optimistic measures, has less than 40 votes,” Mr. Reid said. “I am not going to put something on the floor that can’t succeed.”
harrys ghost is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 04:39 PM   #23
Mausermolt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2007
Location: Ory-gun
Posts: 502
im so happy about this small step forward! either way you look at it, its still a victory for us. im gonna go celebrate with a nice cold victory beer
__________________
Molon Labe
Mausermolt is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 04:50 PM   #24
harrys ghost
Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 67
Another "fan" weighs in ...

http://reason.com/blog/2013/03/19/sa...defeat-of-fein

Following the embedded links take you to some interesting, and amusing, articles.
harrys ghost is offline  
Old March 19, 2013, 04:52 PM   #25
BarryLee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2010
Location: The ATL (OTP)
Posts: 2,756
Ok, looks like we still have a little issue here.

Apparently Mr. Reid plans to hold two votes on Ms. Feinstein’s bill. One will be the AWB bill including the magazine restrictions. I think we all know this is not going to pass, but provides some cover so Senators can vote against it while supporting the other initiatives.

Mr. Reid apparently plans to also hold a separate vote on just the magazine limit portion of the Bill. Apparently the Senate Leadership believes the magazine restrictions might have a chance of passing.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...aning-support/
__________________
A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
- Milton Friedman
BarryLee is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13805 seconds with 9 queries