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Old March 24, 2013, 07:11 PM   #1
Hiker 1
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HK - DOA/LEM

Folks,

Which HK P30 or HK45 (not USP) variants have consistent trigger pulls? I'm moving away from DA/SA.

Thanks,

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Old March 24, 2013, 07:29 PM   #2
B.O.F.H.
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Its not a matter of models. As far as I know it is an option available on all models though I rarely see them for sale brand new set up with the lem trigger. I also believe that one can just order the parts and convert themselves. Have you checked h&ks website?

Also, if you don't mind my asking, why are you ditching the da/sa trigger system?

Eta: top gun supply sells the trigger conversion for the hk45 and 45c. P30 appears to be out of stock.
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Old March 24, 2013, 07:30 PM   #3
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Want some honest advice? If you're moving away from DA/SA, why stay with HK? LEM is an option and a lot like it. But to me, if I am doing DAO I will just go to a striker fired safe action pistol like an M&P or Glock. I am a long time HK owner and spent the past year shooting DA/SA pistols. I've moved to M&Ps.
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Old March 24, 2013, 07:31 PM   #4
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The P30 is not officially supported in terms of converting from DA/SA to LEM, and the reverse is impossible. The HK45 can be converted to LEM.

As mentioned, both models can be found in LEM variants. You have to look for dealers advertising them as such.
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Old March 24, 2013, 11:08 PM   #5
Hiker 1
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I'm doing just that. I'm going to all striker-fired and 1911. I just sold my USP and went with an M&Pc.

I do like HKs, though and would still like one for the collection.

Thanks for the tips!
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Old March 25, 2013, 07:14 AM   #6
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Quote:
I just sold my USP and went with an M&Pc.
Sounds familiar .

But yeah just look for the words LEM in the description.
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Old March 25, 2013, 10:26 AM   #7
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I love the LEM system. It is on my P2000sk for carry and I consider it ideal. It has more safety margin than a Glock, because of the long takeup and the hammer you can physically block with your thumb. But it has a very similar trigger pull and reset. I love it.
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Old March 25, 2013, 10:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
It has more safety margin than a Glock, because of the long takeup
I don't really consider that a safety feature, but to each his own.

Quote:
the hammer you can physically block with your thumb
That I really do like.

Quote:
But it has a very similar trigger pull and reset.
Reset to me is noticeably longer than most striker fired pistols, but not prohibitively so.

I hate that long light takeup. Idk why but I really do. I would much rather have a DA first pull where the pull has resistance the whole way. I find I can use that resistance to steady my shot. To me a LEM trigger just has a lot of slack.

But to Scotch's credit there are a LOT of people over on HKpro that love the LEM. My advice though is to really try it first. It honestly is a love it or leave it thing. Can't rely on anyone's opinion, including mine.
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Old March 26, 2013, 10:23 AM   #9
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I have a large amount of respect for TR, so I don't mean to be argumentative. I'd just like to clarify one part of my post. When I said more safety margin than a Glock, what I meant was the trigger has to move a lot farther from the carry position to the fire position. If there is something in your holster to pull the trigger, you have 2-3x more time to do something about it before the bang, because that hammer has to come alllll the way back before it is released. I don't necessarily think of it as a safety "feature", but it gives me peace of mind.

As for the takeup, TR is right that you either love or hate the LEM. I have a DA/SA HK as well, and I haven't converted it to LEM for a reason. I like both. For carry I really like LEM though. The trick to learning to love it is thinking of that takeup as a preliminary step before you fire the gun, not as the actual process of firing. I take up the slack, stop at the resistance, aim and fire. Of course for safety reasons, you don't do this until you are on target, but trying to pull through the whole thing in one smooth press does not work for me.

There is nothing at all wrong with a DA/SA, and they can be shot just as well. I just like having the lighter pull for the first shot. I think of it as a single action gun I can carry with the hammer down, best of both worlds.
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Old March 26, 2013, 10:32 AM   #10
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Taken from HK

Quote:
USP Variants:
Variant 1:
 Double action/single action with "SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety/decoking lever) on left side of frame.

Variant 2: 
Double action/single action with "SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety/decocking lever) on right side of frame.

Variant 3: 
Double action/single action without "SAFE” position. Control lever (decocking lever) on left side of frame.

Variant 4: 
Double action/single action without ”SAFE” position. Control lever (decocking lever) on right side of frame.

Variant 5: 
Double action only with ”SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety) on left side of frame.

Variant 6: 
Double action only with ”SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety) on right side of frame.

Variant 7: 
Double action without control lever (no manual safety/decocking lever)

Variant 8: 
Double action without control lever (no manual safety/decocking lever)
SPECIAL VARIANT FOR GOVERNMENT AGENCY

Variant 9: 
Double action/single action with control lever (manual safety/no decocking function) on left side of frame.

Variant 10: 
Double action/single action with control lever (manual safety/no decocking function) on right side of frame.
They have similar lists for the other models.

ETA: P30
Quote:
M730901-A5…P30 9 mm (V1) "light" LEM DAO, with two 15 round magazines…$1,054.00

M730903-A5…P30 9 mm (V3) DA/SA, rear decocking button, with two 15 round magazines (NO MANUAL SAFETY LEVER)…$1,054.00

M730903S-A5…P30S 9 mm (V3) DA/SA, ambidextrous safety lever/rear decocking button, with two 15 round magazines…$1,054.00

M734001-A5…P30 .40 S&W (V1) "light" LEM DAO, with two 13 round magazines…$1,054.00

M734003-A5…P30 .40 S&W (V3) DA/SA rear decocking button, with two 13 round magazines (NO MANUAL SAFETY LEVER)…$1,054.00

M734003S-A5…P30S .40 S&W (V3) DA/SA, ambidextrous safety lever/with two 13 round magazines…$1,054.00
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Old March 26, 2013, 10:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
When I said more safety margin than a Glock, what I meant was the trigger has to move a lot farther from the carry position to the fire position. If there is something in your holster to pull the trigger, you have 2-3x more time to do something about it before the bang, because that hammer has to come alllll the way back before it is released. I don't necessarily think of it as a safety "feature", but it gives me peace of mind.
To me though it's more the fact that if you do as you said and put your thumb over the hammer you'll feel the hammer start moving and then stop. An XDm, for instance, has a lot of takeup on the trigger. So not all striker fired guns have very short takeups. Or Kahrs for example, which are truly DAO. It's also a very good habit to check your holster at least visually and possibly physically before holstering a weapon.

Quote:
Of course for safety reasons, you don't do this until you are on target, but trying to pull through the whole thing in one smooth press does not work for me.
And that's fair enough. I'm not trying to say everyone has to use DA/SA. I just prefer consistent resistance through the entire pull, regardless of the action.

Quote:
I think of it as a single action gun I can carry with the hammer down, best of both worlds.
To me one of the appeals of a SA trigger is that short takeup.

No one has to apologize to me for disagreeing with me . This is a forum, we're here to express opinions. My opinion is no more right than Scotch's, and vice versa. All I ask is people express those opinions politely and respectfully, as Scotch did.
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Old March 26, 2013, 10:56 AM   #12
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I laugh when I see those lists --as my P7s have been my friends since they were available !!
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Old March 26, 2013, 10:59 AM   #13
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I have the P30 with the V1 (light LEM) trigger. At this point - I hate it. I love the gun for function and grip ergonomics....but the trigger....

It's probably just me, but I agree that I'd rather have a firm takeup on DA that transitions to a short SA trigger. The V1 is a loooong pull and the reset is also rather long. I end up watching the hammer to see where it is in the trigger pull travel to get better trigger control. I'm sure there are lots of people that can shoot the V1 trigger just fine and like it a lot - I have not been able to get used to it after over 1,000 rounds through the pistol.

If I had to do it again - I'd probably get the DA/SA version.
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Old March 27, 2013, 11:47 AM   #14
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Yeah, I am primarily a SIG guy and prefer the DA/SA. When I bought my P30, I made sure to avoid the LEM and get the DA/SA. I have no problems with the first trigger take-up. After that, its as good as it gets!
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