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Old September 21, 2014, 12:17 PM   #1
Pathfinder45
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muzzle brake on AR?

Who uses a muzzle brake on an AR type rifle and why? I was out shooting with friend and he pulls out his tricked out AR-15ish thing and it's got a muzzle brake. It blew me off the firing line, it was so loud. I use good earplugs that stand up quite well to a 270 Winchester but they were completely in adequate for his braked 5.56. I didn't think a 223/5.56 round recoiled enough to justify a muzzle brake. What's the need here?
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Old September 21, 2014, 12:20 PM   #2
iamdb
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Mostly cosmetic.

Check this out....

http://vuurwapenblog.com/2014/01/12/...ce-comparison/
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Old September 21, 2014, 12:41 PM   #3
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Alot of my AR's have muzzle breaks... But thats only because thats the mounting point for my suppressors. Otherwise i would agree. MB's make the AR way too loud.

A good flash-hider IS a good idea however
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Old September 21, 2014, 02:08 PM   #4
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I use a linear comp on mine, they help with muzzle rise without being loud to nearby folks. I don't shoot much at night so flash suppressors don't offer me anything I really need.
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Old September 21, 2014, 05:08 PM   #5
Bartholomew Roberts
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I would disagree that they are mostly cosmetic. While .223 is a relatively light recoiling calier, a muzzle brake can compensate for less than perfect form or allow you to observe your hits even with magnification.

A lot of people who think a muzzle brake on a .223 is not necessary are usually looking at it from a more traditional shooting/hunting perspective where a muzzle brake doesn't make a difference in accuracy but is a lot noisier.
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Old September 21, 2014, 05:11 PM   #6
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iamdb, your link maybe incomplete? It seemed to be a dead end. My buddy also has a SOCOM 16 that might be even louder. When he shoots either one of those I feel compelled to get directly behind him, the further the better and wait til he's done. We generally have a good time, but he has some toys I could live without.
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Old September 21, 2014, 05:51 PM   #7
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http://vuurwapenblog.com/2014/01/12/...ce-comparison/

I believe this was the link he was going for, very informative
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Old September 21, 2014, 06:19 PM   #8
Bartholomew Roberts
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The Vuurwaapen link seems like it addresses muzzle flash, not recoil. Of course, that could be just because the link keeps crashing Safari and I could not see the whole thing.
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Old September 21, 2014, 06:22 PM   #9
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I use a Battlecomp on my AR, extremely effective but not as loud as some other brakes or comps on the market. Brakes and Comps are far more useful to me than a flash hider. Brakes and comps allow for flatter shooting, very useful in strings of rapid fire and they allow me to shoot faster and obtain tighter groups. Now as far as the flash hider, I find a flatter shooting rifle in rapid fire far more useful than having to hide my flash signature from an enemy at night. The comp or brake benefits you every time you pull the trigger, the chances your flash hider will ever benefit the average person in their lifetime is pretty low.
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Old September 21, 2014, 06:30 PM   #10
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Thanks skizzums. That was the link I was going for. Don't know what happened there. It is a pictue heavy article and addresses both flash suppression and recoil reduction side by side. It also has some handy graphs as well as prices listed.
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Old September 21, 2014, 06:38 PM   #11
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In regards to that link, he doesn't go into much detail in how the so called high speed cameras and accelerometers he used would measure the amount of recoil. The videos were poorly done IMO and are hard to judge as far as effectiveness of recoil reduction, I also have to question his consistency on his hold on the rifle in each shoot. In actuality the difference in recoil reduction from one brake to the next is not really that great, some work better than others but marginally. In most of the videos he is even showing less recoil with a bare muzzle than with some of the brakes. Watching those videos you would think in some he was firing a 22lr and a .308 in others. So basically what you would get from all those videos is that a bare muzzle gives you the best results for recoil reduction, which is blatantly not true. Where were these accelerometers placed? All he did was throw a bar graph together and expect us to take his word for it, hardly scientific. This is perhaps the most important part of the test, yet he gave the most limited amount of information on it, all in all a couple sentences worth. I also think he made this test only to prove how much better he considers flash hiders to comps or brakes which leads me to believe he went into the testing very biased. Then when you look into how he measured the muzzle flash, the findings up close and from a distance should be relatively consistent with slight variations, if you compare to the two graphs they are all over the place. I don't hold much weight to his findings at all.

Last edited by Dragline45; September 21, 2014 at 10:07 PM.
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Old September 21, 2014, 07:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
In regards to that link, he doesn't go into much detail in how the so called high speed cameras and accelerometers he used would measure the amount of recoil. The videos were poorly done IMO and are hard to judge as far as effectiveness of recoil reduction, I also have to question his consistency on his hold on the rifle in each shoot. In actuality the difference in recoil reduction from one brake to the next is not really that great, some work better than others but marginally. Even the difference between using a brake and not the recoil reduction is not a huge difference but it's there. Yet watching those videos you would think in some he was firing a 22lr and a .308 in others. Where were these accelerometers placed? All he did was throw a bar graph together and expect us to take his word for it, hardly scientific. This is perhaps the most important part of the test, yet he gave the most limited amount of information on it, all in all a couple sentences worth. I also think he made this test only to prove how much better he considers flash hiders to comps or brakes which leads me to believe he went into the testing very biased. Then when you look into how he measured the muzzle flash, the findings up close and from a distance should be relatively consistent with slight variations, if you compare to the two graphs they are all over the place. I don't hold much weight to his findings at all.
I don't even know where to start.....

Please show us some sort of comparison that you hold weight to. I'd even take just 2 comps being compared to a level you find acceptable.
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Old September 21, 2014, 07:44 PM   #13
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I gave reasons for all my gripes with his study, what more could you want? I also read some of his other articles which gave me a better opinion of him. I have personally fired AR's with several of the comp's he tested so I have some experience with them. What can I say, I think it's a crap study. I don't know the guy who wrote the article from a hole in the wall, am I just supposed to automatically accept his bar graphs and his study? It's on the internet though, so it must be true.

This is all coming from the guy who said comps and brakes are mostly cosmetic?

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Old September 21, 2014, 09:08 PM   #14
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The compensator on my varmint AR is extremely effective and allows for quicker second shots if necessary. The 74 Comp on an AK is also very effective in getting on target quicker with follow up shots. I prefer a flash hider, but there are times a good comp can be a useful tool.
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Old September 21, 2014, 09:11 PM   #15
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I take it your a little sour over him hating your device

heres another one you'll like then: http://vuurwapenblog.com/2014/01/20/...ould-feel-bad/

nobody is saying take this guys work as gospel, but I would take a knowledgeable consumers take on it rather than the companies trying to sell them. Maybe the battlecomp is all the magical things the manufacturer says it is, but I don't have the time or money to test 50 brakes like this guys did and make an informed sounding argument for/against them. it does make me wanna do a little more research on the brakes he disliked before buying one though. I think his argument that the a2 is pretty much as good as most is probably true.

bart: he does the recoil testing after the flash hider study. its pretty short compared to the picture heavy flash stuff
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Old September 21, 2014, 09:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragline45
This is all coming from the guy who said comps and brakes are nothing but cosmetic?
To be fair, he said "mostly cosmetic", which is very different than "nothing but cosmetic".

One could make an argument that they're "mostly cosmetic" in that many people pick them mostly for looks and they don't make a huge difference in many people's shooting. But I do agree that a good brake can noticeably lower muzzle climb, especially during rapid fire.

Regardless, I think we all can agree that they're definitely not "nothing but cosmetic".
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Old September 21, 2014, 09:44 PM   #17
Dragline45
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Quote:
To be fair, he said "mostly cosmetic", which is very different than "nothing but cosmetic".
My mistake ill give him that.

Quote:
heres another one you'll like then: http://vuurwapenblog.com/2014/01/20/...ould-feel-bad/
Now that's a laugh haha, I have fired AR's with several comps and found the Battlecomp to be one of the best, I wouldn't have forked out the money for one otherwise. Personally I think the Surefire brake is the best out there, but it's extremely loud. The reason I chose the Battlecomp is because I found it's a good combination of recoil reduction without being as obnoxiously loud as the Surefire. Also considering other comps in his testing came out lower than the Battlecomp, for him to write a whole article on his hate for the Battlecomp alone makes me think he has a grudge against the product/company. Just further reinforces how much credibility I hold in this particular author, which isn't very much.


Actually going back and looking at his testing of the Battlecomp as well as the Dynacomp, VG6, and Triad and even a standard A2 flash hider, it almost looks like he is purposely pushing the muzzle down while firing. Even the brakes that he claims do not push the muzzle down, they for some reason have more recoil than the bare muzzle. I have to question his shooting ability, either that or he has the strength of a 5 year old girl. If you watch all the videos, what you would basically get out of it is a bare muzzle gives you the best results for recoil reduction, which is blatantly not true. When I shoot mine it's almost perfectly flat with all recoil being pushed back into my shoulder. Again this just further justifies my lack of credibility I hold in him. I honestly think the whole article on those comp's was for him to try to convince people to stick with a standard A2 flash hider, especially with his comments about the A2 in the Battlecomp article. For the most part he spent the whole article pointing out the downsides of comps/brakes.

.

Last edited by Dragline45; September 21, 2014 at 10:22 PM.
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Old September 21, 2014, 11:35 PM   #18
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So, then, a brake and a compensator are similar, work the same, but are intended for different puposes? That is, one is to reduce recoil while the other is meant to reduce muzzle climb during rapid fire?
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Old September 22, 2014, 12:03 AM   #19
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So, then, a brake and a compensator are similar, work the same, but are intended for different puposes? That is, one is to reduce recoil while the other is meant to reduce muzzle climb during rapid fire?
For all intents and purposes, they are pretty much the same thing, it's up to what the manufacturer wants to call it. I am sure technically there may be slight differences, but the lines are so blurred it's all lost in translation.
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Old September 22, 2014, 09:41 AM   #20
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I did, when I had an AR.



A friend of mine had one, and it felt like it was shaking my teeth out of my jaw every time it fired.
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Old September 22, 2014, 09:49 AM   #21
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Who uses a muzzle brake on an AR type rifle and why? I was out shooting with friend and he pulls out his tricked out AR-15ish thing and it's got a muzzle brake. It blew me off the firing line, it was so loud. I use good earplugs that stand up quite well to a 270 Winchester but they were completely in adequate for his braked 5.56. I didn't think a 223/5.56 round recoiled enough to justify a muzzle brake. What's the need here?

Really, the first question to be asked is what kind of shooting are you doing?

If you're target shooting or plinking then the brake is really unnecessary.

However if you're shooting distance without a spotter then the brake allows you to see impacts. Also, if you shoot timed competitions and you aren't using a brake, you'll be at a severe disadvantage. A good brake will make follow up shots a great deal faster and more accurate.

Finally, if you're thinking home defense, my feeling is that any 5.56 AR in an enclosed space is a huge hearing loss liability and a brake makes that problem immensely worse.
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Old September 22, 2014, 11:40 AM   #22
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HAD a muzzle break on my 16 inch barreled AR and people at the range hated me for it.
Loud and anyone on either side got blasted with gas each shot.
I put a linear compensator on it and now everyone is happy.
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Old September 22, 2014, 12:24 PM   #23
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I'm really pleased with the linear comps on mine as well.
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Old September 22, 2014, 12:26 PM   #24
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I shoot a variety of targets using bolt and lever guns. The only semi auto I have is rimfire. It's my shooting buddy that brings the, "toys", as he calls them. I'm trying to learn about these things and not just be negative about some of these, "toys", that are hard to be around when they go off. Tell me about the linear compensator that madmo mentions. Wouldn't it be nice if suppressors were unrestricted? Quieter guns wouldn't be such a bad thing..... Anyway, I was just trying to learn something constructive; not set off incendiaries in your camp. I prefer Walnut and traditional hardware myself; kinda old-school here. I shoot a lot of paper and improvised targets that can be easily cleaned up; never glass bottles. I use public lands and leave it cleaner than I found it.
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Old September 22, 2014, 12:35 PM   #25
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I see your an elite forum operations veteran. Ever think about hosting some tactical forum classes? Your use of logical fallacies, misquote's, and imaginary context are second to none. With your level of reading comprehension you are truly, the alpha and omega of "that guy", the hardest of the blowhards. I am in awe of the authority you speak with. Thank you for the knowledge you have blessed us with. This has been a very humbling exchange. I will now remove myself from this thread, tail tucked between my legs.
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