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Old March 19, 2013, 05:08 PM   #1
tahunua001
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6.5 jap load data

hello all, I am debating taking my arisaka out hunting this spring. I've already got 140gr accubonds on order, I just need some decent load data. anygot a pet load that's nice and accurate?
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Old March 19, 2013, 09:36 PM   #2
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shameless bump.
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Old March 20, 2013, 06:07 AM   #3
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I'll tag along... I'll be loading for mine this summer, for a rifle I bought a few years ago from a buddy... he hand loaded for it, I've yet to get his recommendation... though with the current climate, recipes may be limited to powders you have or can find on the shelf
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Old March 20, 2013, 07:09 AM   #4
Mike Irwin
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I used to reload for my Type 38.

I used exclusively IMR-4064, but I don't have access to my loading records right now.
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Old March 20, 2013, 10:15 AM   #5
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Sorry to jump in, but if anyone is interested I have a box of 20 once fired norma brass that I will be listing in the "Gun Show" section.

The 6.5 Jap was my first center fire rifle I ever owned. I fondly remember it and it was suprizingly accurate. Its been 20 years since I sold it and I still regret it.

Just re-living a good memory.
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Old March 20, 2013, 10:18 AM   #6
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might be interested... I only have a couple 100 cases... some are Norma... what were you thinking ???

assume you also live in MN ???
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Old March 20, 2013, 10:40 AM   #7
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Check out the NRA's "Handloading" manual. It's got 6.5 mm Japanese load data in it, pg. 170. The write up for the data recommends getting a chamber cast to ensure the right cartridge is chambered. Seems some were rechambered after the war. NRA did not specify which rifle they worked up loads for, and there are a cpl variations using the 6.5 mm round.

I have a Japanese rifle, not an Arisaka, that was brought home by an uncle from a cashe on Okinawa. It's got a bolt similar to a Mannlicher-Carcano, but was Japanese issue prior to US entry into the war...it uses standard Norma 6.5 mm Japanese ammunition. The story, as I know it, was that Japanese arsenals were not able to keep up with demand as the army was fighting in Manchuria and China...and contracted out to Beretta for add'l arms...a check on one of the Japanese military forums will give you better info if your rifle is suspect.

The following is from NRA's "Handloading" manual, by William C. Davis, copyright 1981, 1986.... All loads listed use Norma brass and Norma, Remington or Federal primers.

Max case length, 1.984";
Trim to, 1.974";
Max overall length, 2.940";
Bullet dia. .264"


129 Hornady PTD
, 38.5gr Dupont 4350, 2600 fps, no pres. or OAL listed, (Hornady Load) 32" bbl

139 Norma PBT, 32.3 gr 4064, 2480 fps, 35,100 Cup, OAL 3.010" (NRA load), 24" bbl.

156 Norma RNN, 29.3 gr 4064, 2149 fps, 37,900 Cup, OAL 2.890" (NRA load), 24" bbl.

160 Hornady RN, 37.3 gr H-4831, 2300 fps, no press. or OAL listed, (Hornady load), 32" bbl.

As always, check your own data and work up slowly; I've proof read the above but you should refer to the manual yourself.

Best Regards, Rod
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Last edited by rodfac; March 20, 2013 at 10:55 AM.
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Old March 20, 2013, 11:44 AM   #8
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Concur on 4064 and 140 gr bullets.
Ammo and brass for these rifles are hard to find right now.
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Old March 20, 2013, 03:35 PM   #9
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Recommend the OP consider sizing/forming/trimming 6.5 Jap out of 243Win brass.

I literally had to do this back in the early 80's due to the sloppy (read" oversize) chamber dimemnsions
that would badly bulge Norma's true 6.5JAP brass to all get out. 243 is just-the-right-amount-larger in the
base area to fill things out.

The reformed 243Win fit prefectly/snugly... and no more bulges.
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Old March 20, 2013, 09:22 PM   #10
tahunua001
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Quote:
I have a Japanese rifle, not an Arisaka, that was brought home by an uncle from a cashe on Okinawa. It's got a bolt similar to a Mannlicher-Carcano, but was Japanese issue prior to US entry into the war...it uses standard Norma 6.5 mm Japanese ammunition
not to hijack my own thread here but you have quite a find there. it is still sometimes called an arisaka but it was made in italy for use by the Japanese navy. the action resembles a carcano but stock design and overall profile suggest arisaka influences. nice rifle. maybe someday I'll get lucky and find one.

thanks for the tips, looks like I might have to see if anywhere has 4064, it's not too commonly used so maybe someone still has it in stock. I'm in no immediate need of brass. I bought 80 loaded hornady rounds and have fired about half. I plan on using the factory ammo for plinking and loading my own hunting ammo assuming I can find an accurate enough load.
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Old March 20, 2013, 09:59 PM   #11
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Here's a link to some old load manuals which probably list 6.5 Jap data.

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/OM/default.html
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Old March 21, 2013, 07:58 AM   #12
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The Hornady manual should still have loading info for 4064 and a variety of bullet weights. I would guess Sierra still would, too.

The most common Arisaka rechambering was to ream the chamber out to take a .257 Roberts case necked to 6.5.

It was actually fairly popular in the 1950s and 1960s, and RCBS offered dies for it.

I always thought I'd like to rechamber a modern bolt rifle to 6.5x50 and really put the round through its paces.

It is a quite efficient design (not unlike the other 6.5s of the same vintage) and gives good power with relatively low recoil.
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Old March 21, 2013, 10:34 AM   #13
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mine is still 6.5x50.
I have the 8th edition hornady and based on their load data for 140gr bullets and everyone's recommendations of 4064, I have decided to start somewhere around 32.5-33 grains of 4064 which should put it somewhere around 2500FPS.
that is assuming I can find 4064 anywhere, right now the only powder I have that anyone lists is H4831 and I have seen no recommendations for loads with that powder.

I must agree that I am also intrigued by a modern bolt action chambered in this cartridge. when I got it I was actually quite against it. I was actually after an arisaka type99 in the easier to find and more powerful 7.7mm but I was trying to get rid of a springfield and a fellow offered both in trade so I took it... now despite how hard it is to track down stuff for it the type 44 carbine is one of my favorite military surplus rifles and due in no small part to the accuracy and light recoil of the round it shoots.
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Old March 21, 2013, 11:07 AM   #14
Mike Irwin
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Hodgdon's online loading center has H4831 data for 140-gr. bullets.
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Old March 21, 2013, 06:43 PM   #15
tahunua001
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I lucked out today, got a pound of 4064, I might try loading up 5 rounds with 4064 and 5 rounds with 4831,

chronograph 2(I know, not very scientific but I'm running out of R&D time) and pattern 3, and do the same with a set of factory ammo as a reference. whatever shows the most promise will get to advance to round 2 where I'll toy around and try to find a load I like.
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Old March 21, 2013, 09:33 PM   #16
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I have an Arisaka rifle, and I fired one box of Norma factory ammo through it whcih seemed to be very hot, and with some scary looking brass when I was finished that I was afraid to reload. I found 20 pieces of new Norma brass to load some mild shooters in my old gun.

I had some Norma 139gr FMJBT bullets and tested two very mild loads.

18gr IMR4198
33gr IMR4350

Both shot fairly decent from my old worn out Arisaka. I doubt either loaded ever hit 2000fps. I'm sure I could have gotten quite a bit hotter, and more accurrate with some work, which I never did, but these are some good starting points if you have a heavily used piece.

Last edited by TimSr; March 23, 2013 at 09:51 PM.
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Old March 21, 2013, 09:45 PM   #17
tahunua001
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are you entirely certain that your rifle is chambered for 6.5x50?
none of my 6.5 brass swelled enough to cause any concern. could you post pics?
the last guy I heard that complained of those issues posted pics and then later found out that he had been shooting 7.7 arisaka ammunition out of a rifle that had previously been rechambered to 30-06...

is it possible at all that your rifle has been rechambered to a more common 6.5mm round like 6.5 swede?
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Old March 21, 2013, 09:46 PM   #18
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Quote:
I have an Arisaka rifle, and I fired one box of Norma factory ammo through it whcih seemed to be very hot, and with some scary looking brass...
Quote:
....are you entirely certain that your rifle is chambered for 6.5x50?
none of my 6.5 brass swelled enough to cause any concern.
See post # 9 above
Arisaka rifle chambers are notoriously oversize and Norma brass will bulge alarmingly. The only solution I found was to use 243Win brass, ...and that worked superbly.
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Old March 21, 2013, 09:54 PM   #19
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"shooting 7.7 arisaka ammunition out of a rifle that had previously been rechambered to 30-06..."

Many Arisaka rifles do seem to have oversized chambers. Mine would also bulge cases slightly.

As for one being rechambered to .30-06, that shouldn't cause any additional swelling of the case near the head because the 7.7 is slightly larger in diameter than the .30-06. If anything it would be a complete wash to the point where the .30-06 reamer might not even remove any material at the base of the chamber.

It may have been something more of a problem farther down the body of the case, as I'm not sure if the 7.7 tapered more than the .30-06.
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Old March 22, 2013, 12:33 PM   #20
tahunua001
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actually this particular members brass was fire forming out to become short necked 30-06, never noticed anything about the head, just neck and shoulder.

it's also pretty hard to conceive that a chamber can be so oversized as to allow a 63mm case to fit a 58mm chamber.
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Old March 23, 2013, 02:16 AM   #21
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Mine is the original. Never seen another like it. Over 120 years old now so I don't load it very hot. 32 g IMR 4895 with a 140g V-max. Same as my 30-30 but a 10g lighter bullet.

The story as I know it... Grandpa was in the CB's in the pacific. Don't know which island in particular. Anyhow the "Jap" solder laid down the rifle, drew his sword and charged Grandpa dozer. So... Grandpa emptied his 30 carbine into him. The rest is history. We still have his knife, sword and rifle. Some years after the war Grandpa sent his journal back to his family in Japan. During the war he hated them but after he respected them for fighting like honorable men. Well... most of them.
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Old March 23, 2013, 10:38 PM   #22
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"it's also pretty hard to conceive that a chamber can be so oversized as to allow a 63mm case to fit a 58mm chamber."

That's what a chambering reamer will do for you -- move the shoulder ahead and allow a .30-06 case to chamber and fire.
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Old March 23, 2013, 10:40 PM   #23
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"Mine is the original. Never seen another like it. Over 120 years old now so I don't load it very hot. 32 g IMR 4895 with a 140g V-max. Same as my 30-30 but a 10g lighter bullet."

Say what?

The type 38 Arisaka was adopted in 1905, and the Type 99 Arisaka was adopted in 1939.
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Old March 23, 2013, 11:25 PM   #24
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That's what I'm saying. I don't know.

Edit...

Not to high jack the thread but... mine is stamped 1889 and is definitely 6.5 Jan. Both my father and I have taken the gun to over a dozen gun shows and no one can tell us what it is. The action is very similar to the 39 but not identical. It has a 30 5/8 in barrel, full length stock and bayonet. A dealer at the Portland OreGun gun show that specializes in Japanese rifles offered me $2000 on the spot! Any ideas what it is? If I can get a picture to post I'll start a thread but I'm posting from smart phone and can't get it to work( I live 8 mi from the internet). Thanks if you can help.

Boomer
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Old March 24, 2013, 08:37 AM   #25
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Boomer,

Now you've got me interested...

e-mail the picture to tflwebmaster@gmail.com

I'll pick it up from there.

A few points...

If the rifle was made in Japan, they didn't put production dates on them, and certainly not dates in the European calendar.

1889 could very well be a serial number.
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