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Old March 19, 2013, 03:45 PM   #26
Nathan
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243, 308 or 338 Federal all sound good to me. If staying with 243, I would switch to a premium hunting bullet to maximize it's effectiveness. The premium bullet would be better in most rounds.

A 308 AR10, might give her reduced size and recoil do to its MSR shape, gas system and muzzle device.

If you went to an elk rifle, something like 338 Federal or 35 Remington with a nice recoil pad, muzzle brake and possible a mercury recoil reducer might really tame the gun for her.
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Old March 19, 2013, 03:51 PM   #27
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She was shooting 90 grain, if I remember right, with her .243...shot at under 50 yards in the heart/lung area. I know her shot placement was good if she tells me it was...but it didn't drop him...then again, he was one huge ass bull too
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Old March 19, 2013, 03:53 PM   #28
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I'm sure he died, eventually....his trail lead down into the deepest darkest hell hole you can imagine....
I just had her go look, she was shooting 100 grain Remington Core-lokt
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Old March 19, 2013, 03:56 PM   #29
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Well to the best of my knowledge all Military Style rifles in 308 (and the old M-1 Garand in 30-06) are fairly heavy with the exception being the new FN SCAR which costs a LOT.

The M1A is not too bad, but get heavy if you scope it.

The DPMS "AR-10 style" rifles come in calibers from 243 to 338 Federal, but I have owned one myself in 308 and I have a neighbor that had one in 243 and neither own was reliable. In fact his never once got through a mag of ammo without at least 2 jams. My 308 also seldom would go through a mag without at least one jam

I have an FN FAL that is 100% trouble free, but again it’s heavy and a small lady would not like it in all probability.

The FNAR in 308 is a Browning Short Track in 308 with a 20 round box mag but the stock is quite long even in its shortest configuration. It's lighter than the FAL, but scoped and loaded it's still a 1.4 pound rifle.

In military style rifles that would be good elk guns the ones I know of are:
The M-1 Garand,
The HK-91 and clones (CETME and so on)
The FN- FAL
The FN SCAR
The FNAR
The M1A and M-14s
The AR-10 and "clones"
The Dragunov sniper rifle clones in 7.62X54R. This one is one of the lighter full power autos, but pretty long.
There may be a few others that pop up now and then too. But this list constitutes most of the ones you could choose from.

What state are you in Nim Rod?
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Old March 19, 2013, 04:10 PM   #30
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+1 to Wyosmiths concerns on weight with the MSRs. Although my DPMS LR 308 has been 100% reliable, it's heavy compared to a regular AR or any of my bolt guns. If you're covering a lot of ground huntin elk, it would be a drawback.

7mm 08 is a good round. 270 or 280 would be great as well. 7x57 or 6.5X55 would also work.

If she insists on blonde wood, if you buy a common bolt action, there are companies making aftermarket stocks in a dizzying array of laminate colors, wood types, and styles. A word of caution, though, there are a lot of pretty stocks out there! I find I never like the stocks I own as much as the ones I see online!
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Old March 19, 2013, 04:34 PM   #31
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.270, with the proper bullets, and the proper shot placement is as good as a magnum "super blaster". Even the .308 along with the .270 with a muzzle brake, could be an option. My daughter can easily handle her .270 Weather Warrior from Savage, and it's deadly accurate, and easy to clean, only it's in a synthetic stock... but practice is the most important part of gun ownership, especially if we're killing animals with them......just my buck fitty.
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Old March 19, 2013, 04:47 PM   #32
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I haven't yet figured out how you all get previous quotes into a box, but I had to laugh out loud over this one!

"If she insists on blonde wood, if you buy a common bolt action, there are companies making aftermarket stocks in a dizzying array of laminate colors, wood types, and styles. A word of caution, though, there are a lot of pretty stocks out there! I find I never like the stocks I own as much as the ones I see online!"

SO TRUE!!! rofl!

Wyosmith...about 90 miles form you, give or take
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Old March 19, 2013, 04:51 PM   #33
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For no other reason than cost, I'm trying to dissuade her away from MSR's....but she likes them, and loves shooting her brother's AR-15....
That said, I think she is still leaning towards a 308....I just have very little to none, knowledge of them...on another thread in this forum, someone posted a poll asking about 308 vs .270....that's the thread she pointed me to when I found this site (she found it in google)

We'll keep learning and looking, for now, anything is out of our price range until I get the reverse fixed on my Dodge
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Old March 19, 2013, 04:53 PM   #34
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hooligan1, I couldn't agree more on practicing! We try to get out shooting at least once a week....although, less now with ammo being so hard to find and priced like gold
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Old March 19, 2013, 05:01 PM   #35
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Nim Rod, unless y'all are able to reload (and even then it is difficult to get components), you need to try to explain to your daughter that .308 ammo is virtually non-existent in today's market. I had to get into reloading just to have a chance to shoot my .308... but I do love reloading now

.270 and .30-06 ammo can both be found, and with a muzzle brake are better choices than the .308 right now, in my opinion. However, the 7mm-08 still tops my list.
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Old March 19, 2013, 07:36 PM   #36
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Quote:
I'm sure he died, eventually....his trail lead down into the deepest darkest hell hole you can imagine....
I just had her go look, she was shooting 100 grain Remington Core-lokt
2 things, yep that is the way they die. They are usually possible to go get with enough experience, lights, time and raw determination. I'm sure you had the last 2...

I think your bullet may have been the downfall, frankly. The 243 is a pretty small fast round. Core lots hitting bone at full speed likely disinigrate. That is why I would look at bullets first. A Partition, Bonded or full copper will expand, but are tough enough to make some kind of exit hole.

So, I think she should go get her next bull with a better bullet in her 243. Likely these are $55 a box, but I guess that is cheaper than a new gun and a better fit for her. My dad quit on his 30'06 for this same reason. If I were him, I would go back to it, but with better bullets! He had to go to the spendy bullets anyways cause the 270 WSM blows them up at 150 yards!
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Old March 19, 2013, 07:45 PM   #37
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Thank you allaroundhunter for your insight. I have a son that works in the gun dept. for Sportsmen's Warehouse and I will also get his input...he'll know what ammo caliber's they get in most, and how often, for our area in WY, but since he doesn't hunt (he also works for a meat processor so has no interest in hunting), I value other hunter's opinions more when it comes to helping my daughter choose her next firearm.
Most importantly, it will have to be something she likes and will be comfortable with, followed by efficiency, and cost...and availability/cost of ammo.

She'll have no choice but to use my 30.30 this coming fall unless she gets a good paying job and can afford it herself after other expenses (vehicle care, insurance, etc) but since she is a horse trainer, still in her early stages of starting up, her cash flow can often times be long between paychecks, lol
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Old March 19, 2013, 07:59 PM   #38
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If she sticks with the .243 and shoots some 105 gr Nosler Partitions she would have alot better results on elk-sized game.

The 7mm-08 is also a good idea if she gets another rifle.

But two other calibers that deserve just as much consideration are .25-06 and 6.5 creedmoor

I cant believe I'm the first person to mention .25-06 in this thread
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Old March 19, 2013, 08:09 PM   #39
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i was in the same boat for my daughter who was using my first deer rifle that was a .243 (98 mauser GEW that was sporterized long ago and very well done), i had decided to buy her an encore in 308 since it was lighter felt recoil than a 30/06 (at least that was my idea)... turned out that a 308 and lightly loaded 30/06 are the same percieved recoil to her.

ended up getting her a ruger american in 30/06 and she loves it. when shooting federal or american 150gr sp's she really enjoys it and is more accurate with it than with the 165 or 168gr 308's in an encore. right now i am looking at a 7mm-08 or 25-06 encore barrel or possibly a 44mag or 45acp carbine barrel for the encore so that my other daughter can take it into the woods this fall.
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Old March 19, 2013, 08:12 PM   #40
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oh yes! those never even crossed my mind!
You all are very nice and helpful! but oh the choices now, lol....this is almost as fun as going out shooting....almost
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Old March 19, 2013, 08:29 PM   #41
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With the 6.5 creedmoor, keep in mind that Hornady is currently the only one making factory ammo as far as I know. I wouldnt say that its super hard to find, but availability can be spotty with it.

120 gr .25-06 ammo is everywhere and made by everybody so it should be a little easier to find. I shoot Federal Fusion 120's in my .25-06 for whitetails, but I'd say it would make a dandy elk load as well, and its under $30 a box.
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Old March 19, 2013, 08:46 PM   #42
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This is her Ruger .243

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old March 19, 2013, 09:10 PM   #43
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very nice, I'm a fan of the Ruger MKII myself and own one in 30-06, there are far worse guns you could buy.
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Old March 19, 2013, 09:14 PM   #44
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Nimrod, if you want a good blood trail, you most definitely want an exit wound. The .243 Winchester will consistently fully penetrate an Elk if using a bullet such as the Barnes X. Of course there are exceptions to the rule such as if you hit both shoulder balls or some other fluke circumstance that rarely ever occurs. As far as exit wound size, increasing 1/2 or even 1 MM is not going to make a tremendous difference in the size of the exit wound. Double it due to expansion, and its still not a huge difference. You get your huge exit wounds from hyper velocity bullets driving bone and from the shock wave exiting. My 7Rum exits with a wound the size of a base ball, but a 7-08 will not leave a wound even close to that size. If your daughter likes everything about the 06 except the recoil, consider having a muzzle brake put on an 06. I believe you will find that a 7-08 or a 6.5 Creedmoor will leave an exit wound slightly smaller than the .243 due to their lower velocity.
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Old March 19, 2013, 09:20 PM   #45
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Interesting....I almost feel embarrassed as I've been hunting for over 30 years, never been skunked on deer or antelope, and only skunked on elk when I can't locate them....but never put much thought into the ammo....it's eye opening and I'm glad I asked.
I think we'll fill some milk jugs with H2O and head out to the field with her .243 and my old 30.30 and let her experiment with different ammunition before we continue looking for a new firearm....although, she won't like hearing that, lol
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Old March 19, 2013, 09:23 PM   #46
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I only learned about Nosler Partitions yesterday while speaking with my son's boss at Sportsman's Warehouse....have never heard of Barnes X before....I will definitely look into them
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Old March 19, 2013, 09:32 PM   #47
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Nimrod, if you want a good blood trail, you most definitely want an exit wound. The .243 Winchester will consistently fully penetrate an Elk if using a bullet such as the Barnes X. Of course there are exceptions to the rule such as if you hit both shoulder balls or some other fluke circumstance that rarely ever occurs. As far as exit wound size, increasing 1/2 or even 1 MM is not going to make a tremendous difference in the size of the exit wound. Double it due to expansion, and its still not a huge difference. You get your huge exit wounds from hyper velocity bullets driving bone and from the shock wave exiting. My 7Rum exits with a wound the size of a base ball, but a 7-08 will not leave a wound even close to that size. If your daughter likes everything about the 06 except the recoil, consider having a muzzle brake put on an 06. I believe you will find that a 7-08 or a 6.5 Creedmoor will leave an exit wound slightly smaller than the .243 due to their lower velocity.
uh...what?
I have yet to see an elk(non archery) that required an exit wound at all, no less the size of a baseball to drop. this year alone my younger brother took an elk with my 300 weatherby magnum, exit wound about the size of a quarter, dropped 10 feet from where it was shot. my brother inlaw also killed an elk with a 45/70, didn't exit... 7mm-08 is more than capable of killing elk with proper placement and good bullet construction.
with a 7mm-08 you can get a 160gr projectile traveling at nearly 2700 fps. compare that to a 243 where your absolute best is a 105 gr bullet traveling 2900fps, believe it or not those 55 grains make a pretty big difference. also compare to 7mm rem mag where 160 grains max out around 3100 FPS, 4000 feet per second difference doesn't matter much inside of 300 yards.
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Old March 19, 2013, 09:36 PM   #48
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I love how you managed to twist what I said into you cant kill elk without an exit wound the size of a baseball. Not what I said.
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Old March 19, 2013, 09:40 PM   #49
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This looks like it might be a pretty good 243, out to 150 yd, elk round...What do you all think?
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Old March 19, 2013, 09:43 PM   #50
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Yep. Assuming the Hornaday bullet does what they say it will. I have never shot one of their gilding metal bullets so cant provide input on it one way or the other. I can guarantee the X is everything Barnes says it is.
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