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Old March 19, 2013, 06:08 PM   #26
SHE3PDOG
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Maybe this means that the price of battle rifles will start coming down to some semblance of normality in the near future. Also, If these bills are having such a difficult time just making it through the senate, I can't imagine that they will actually make it through congress.
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Old March 19, 2013, 06:32 PM   #27
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DOA in the house. This could be a good thing for midterm elections. So I hope they go on record and vote the whole thing.
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Old March 19, 2013, 06:38 PM   #28
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I don't feel real warm and fuzzy about universal background checks, but even that is preferable to registration. Registration is the first step on the road to confiscation.
The problem is that the current bill, as written, is so badly written that any gun owner of any gun will be a felon unless they never let another living soul touch their rifle without a background check and keep it stored in a locked container only they have access to.

One example: If my buddy comes to my house and I show him my new gun - legal. If I drive to my buddy's house to show him the same new gun - felon, no more guns.
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Old March 19, 2013, 06:40 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts
The problem is that the current bill, as written, is so badly written that any gun owner of any gun will be a felon unless they never let another living soul touch their rifle without a background check and keep it stored in a locked container only they have access to.
I believe the drafters would say "that's a feature, not a bug."
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Old March 19, 2013, 06:46 PM   #30
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Given it was drafted by a Senator with over 20 years experience in drafting legislation, it is tough to believe it was done accidentally...

And in AWB news, the White House weighs in saying "We are going to find the votes (to pass the assault weapons ban)"

http://www.bluegrasspundit.com/2013/..._source=co2hog
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Old March 19, 2013, 06:56 PM   #31
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Keep writing and calling your representatives. This is not dead by any means.
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Old March 19, 2013, 07:29 PM   #32
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I think we'll surely see it again as soon as they figure out a way to cover it up so they can say they didn't do it.
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Old March 19, 2013, 07:33 PM   #33
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Time to quit hoarding "Assault Weapons" and start hoarding "High Capacity Magazines".
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Old March 19, 2013, 07:40 PM   #34
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Dont trust them........
I would not believe that it is over, by a long shot.
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Old March 19, 2013, 07:48 PM   #35
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"The irony is that, in the days of the Founders, we had registration. Every able-bodied adult male was a member of the militia, and the commanding officer of each militia unit obviously needed to know what arms his troop would have at its disposal."

Now if the federal government wishes to give me an M-16 with lots of practice ammo as a member of a state militia they can feel free to register that weapon, and that weapon only.
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Old March 19, 2013, 07:49 PM   #36
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Trouble is coming, no reason why they would quit now!
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Old March 19, 2013, 08:44 PM   #37
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This time the antis have decided to bypass Congress (although they will make an effort there) and ramrod their agenda through state legislatures, which, as we have seen, are much more likely to succumb to an organized and well-funded campaign, especially if the governor is eager to use his clout, which is often more powerful than that of the president over Congress.

It also has the benefit to the antis of spreading out the pro-gun defense and creating a welter of state laws that will confuse gun companies and distributors as they try to comply with 50 conflicting gun and magazine laws. If you are one of the folks who happen to live on a state line, that eight-shot revolver could be legal in your kitchen, but get you jailed for life when the police break in and find it in your living room.

Jim
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Old March 20, 2013, 01:38 AM   #38
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BBC says Assault Weapons Ban Dropped

Looks like Dianne Feinstein lost for now. This is definitely a significant victory. But let's be clear, this is certainly far from over.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21849814

The good thing to note is that those representatives and politicians who are against guns are now known to us and come election time, they'll get what's coming to them. The next time the antis make a push, they'll have less supporters in office hopefully.

Now it's time for me to go back to hoarding standard-capacity magazines...
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Old March 20, 2013, 01:45 AM   #39
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Quote:
So yeah, it doesn't use the word, but registration is implicit.
I don't doubt the proponents would wish it so, but I don't see why it's inevitable. Right now, for example, there is no permanent record of background checks (officially, that we know of).

In my state, if one has a CCW that IS the background check. You do your 4473 form at the dealer, and it goes in their file cabinet. Of course, those forms could be collected later and entered into a database (if the law allowed it, which it does not at this time.)

If the NICS check was a go, no go phone call, without a permanent record, then I would have a hard time not supporting that. The problem is that our opponents have completely validated our worst fears about their intentions with regard to banning guns. It's not paranoid if they are really attempting the thing you're paranoid about.

Last edited by maestro pistolero; March 20, 2013 at 01:50 AM.
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Old March 20, 2013, 07:21 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maestro pistolero
In my state, if one has a CCW that IS the background check. You do your 4473 form at the dealer, and it goes in their file cabinet. Of course, those forms could be collected later and entered into a database (if the law allowed it, which it does not at this time.)
You have identified the major issues with Schumer's UBC bill. The bill eliminates background check substitutes for private sales because they would not create records. Simply put, the underlying purpose of the bill is to create a record of every firearm transaction. While those records are housed at dealers at this time, it would only take a majority vote in Congress to centralize the records.

Outright registration is a high hurdle today, but mandatory recordkeeping may be attainable. Collecting today's records would not constitute a full registry but, over time, the accumulation of records of all transactions would create more and more of the data needed for a registry. Possibly years from now, a move to centralize existing records would be much more viable than simply demanding registration today.
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Old March 20, 2013, 09:43 AM   #41
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Here's my take ... this will NEVER be over ... it appears we won this time ... but the next time some psycho decides mass murder might be a good idea, all these ideas will come tumbling back out of DiFi's desk, and each time it happens, it becomes harder and harder for even our best friends in Congress to stand against the tide ...
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Old March 20, 2013, 09:49 AM   #42
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While I agree that it will never be over, I have to disagree with you, bikerbill, on this point:
Quote:
. . . each time it happens, it becomes harder and harder for even our best friends in Congress to stand against the tide ...
Apparently, it's not harder to stop an AWB now than it was in 1994.

That's not to say that it's time to become complacent. Nothing could be further from the truth. From a political perspective, we have to let our representatives know that we oppose X, Y, or Z. Just as the anti-gun folks like to say (for example) "82% of the American public support A or B," the folks on our side need to be able to say that their polls say that "85% oppose A or B." If we don't call, don't write, don't vote in polls, then the folks who support us have no "political cover" for voting with us.
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Old March 20, 2013, 10:10 AM   #43
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It's a small battle won in an ongoing war. Anyone who thinks the worst is over is sadly mistaken. We cannot be lulled into complacency. Look for universal background checks to be morphed into back door universal gun registration, by the anti-gun forces. This will not be clear in early summaries presented by the media. The true dangers will be buried deep in the bill. Never forget the old saying about the "devil being in the details".
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Old March 20, 2013, 10:34 AM   #44
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Not sure I agree with your disagreement, Spats ... at some tipping point, backing gun owners and the 2A will become a losing proposition and we will see A-Rated Reps and Senators defect ... I think this should encourage all of us to keep after our elected officials to do the things that really can make a change; IMHO, we need to look first at identifying the loons among us and see to it that they get treatment and have no access to weapons they can use to respond to the voices in their heads ... arming teachers after proper training is also an excellent idea which of course has been rejected by anti-gunners whose real agenda is not safety but confiscation. Get rid of preposterous "gun-free" zones.

Just because I'm pessimistic about the future doesn't mean I'm not still working to assure we and our children and their children are never disarmed ... it's a battle worth fighting ...
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Old March 20, 2013, 10:55 AM   #45
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Well, bikerbill, I'm not sure I disagree with your non-agreement with my disagreement . . .

Seriously, though, I think my disagreement was more in regards to the implication that I read in your thread that the battle for 2A rights will always get harder.

Quote:
. . . each time it happens, it becomes harder and harder for even our best friends in Congress to stand against the tide ...
There will be ebbs and flows in the difficulty of this fight. It will not always get harder, it will not always be easier. Right now, Feinstein's bill is dead as a standalone bill. That doesn't mean it won't be offered as an amendment (which is what I expect). Accordingly, we must remain vigilant.

Quote:
at some tipping point, backing gun owners and the 2A will become a losing proposition and we will see A-Rated Reps and Senators defect
This only becomes true when we quit showing up to vote and voice our opinions. When politicians cease to have any of that political cover I mentioned, you bet they'll defect. As long as we offer more political cover than the anti-gun folks, they'll defect to our side, though. That's the nature of the popular vote.
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Old March 20, 2013, 12:45 PM   #46
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Is high capacity mags still in the proposed bill?
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Old March 20, 2013, 12:55 PM   #47
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According to this article in the New York Times:
Quote:
The Senate bill is likely to include the school safety measure, and it may be expanded to include the enhanced background checks. But Mr. Reid is weighing the relative merits of bringing that measure to the floor, which for now has limited support from Republicans.

Mr. Reid said he would allow the assault weapons ban and the limits on magazine sizes to be offered as amendments, Ms. Feinstein said.
So Sen. Reid has separated the magazine size limit and the AWB both from the bill and from each other -- each will require a separate vote to be included as an amendment.

And judging from the above, Mr. Reid is still considering stripping the background check provision from the bill in the same way. If that happens, that will leave two things as part of the actual bill, before amendment votes. First, it will make straw purchases more of a crime than they are already, with stiffer penalties; second, it will provide for grants for increasing school safety, which may or may not actually be funded.
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Old March 20, 2013, 04:58 PM   #48
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And judging from the above, Mr. Reid is still considering stripping the background check provision from the bill in the same way. If that happens, that will leave two things as part of the actual bill, before amendment votes. First, it will make straw purchases more of a crime than they are already, with stiffer penalties; second, it will provide for grants for increasing school safety, which may or may not actually be funded.
I can't wait for the media to tout this as a victory for the children, because straw sales are MORE illegal and we're spending more money on underfunded schools.
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Old March 20, 2013, 06:34 PM   #49
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Slate has an interesting article from a gun-control supporter in which he blasts the idea of an Assault Weapons Ban as porous, inaccurate, and ultimately futile in any case.

The cover of today's Daily News is (not surprisingly) a piece of outrage and manipulation.
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Old March 20, 2013, 06:58 PM   #50
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The Washington Post says that the anti-gun folks will "find the votes."

Quote:
White House chief of staff Denis McDonough said in an interview Tuesday that Senate Democrats’ decision to introduce a gun control bill that doesn’t include an assault weapons ban does not constitute a setback for President Obama’s gun control efforts.
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