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Old March 17, 2013, 05:51 PM   #1
fragtagninja
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A question of obeying the law

Hey guys I would first like to wish everyone a good day and say thank you in advance for the responses. Now down to business. I was wondering if anyone knew a good place to check up on the rules for taking your gun on vacation.

I live on the border our two states and I'm not even sure if I can take my gun with me to s hop for a new holster since the bigger stores all within my southern neighbor. I'm new gun owner if you can't tell.
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Old March 17, 2013, 06:10 PM   #2
AH.74
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http://handgunlaw.us/

This is one of the best places to start.

The key thing to remember is that you must follow the laws of the state you are physically in at the given time.

If you want to ask specific questions, your location and where you will be traveling to would be helpful.
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Old March 17, 2013, 06:11 PM   #3
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It would help if we knew what state you were in.
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Old March 17, 2013, 06:18 PM   #4
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My suggestion would be to contact the State Police of the two states you'll be traveling.
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Old March 17, 2013, 06:41 PM   #5
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^Don't expect or trust police to know the law.

Various states have or don't "reciprocity" towards carry permits of other states. For us to be able to know we need to know the states in question.

This will let you know what states honor your permit and which ones do not, and states that do out of state carry permits.
http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_ca...city_maps.html
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Old March 17, 2013, 10:21 PM   #6
hermannr
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Sarge: It is not lawful for LE to give legal advice in any state I know of.

Legal advice needs to come from a lawyer.

www.handgunlaw.us has the best and most current possible writeups and links to the individual state laws. Best to read the law yourself.
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Old March 17, 2013, 11:53 PM   #7
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Nonsense... questions about criminal law are standard fare around copshops and it's no more illegal (or inaccurate) for them to read you the law--from a live link to the statute--than it is to post a link to it here.
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Old March 18, 2013, 07:36 AM   #8
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Nonsense... questions about criminal law are standard fare around copshops and it's no more illegal (or inaccurate) for them to read you the law--from a live link to the statute--than it is to post a link to it here.
While it may be standard fair, I think there are enough examples out there that the cops sometimes don't know the law well enough themselves to be asked questions regarding things that may have serious repercussions for a private individual trying to do the right thing.

Better to read the law for yourself than to rely on someone who may not give accurate information.
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Old March 18, 2013, 08:10 AM   #9
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Sarge, that is bad advice.
Most cops don't know or won't say. But often they will just say "you can't do it". Law enforcement is a CYA job.
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Old March 18, 2013, 08:25 AM   #10
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I've found it best to contact the Attorney Generals of the Sates I plan on traveling to or through about any questions on gun laws.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
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Old March 20, 2013, 09:51 AM   #11
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There is an excellent app for smart phones; search your app store for Legal Heat ... covers all 50 states, updates with new info pretty frequently and you'll always have it with you as you travel ...
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Old March 20, 2013, 11:46 AM   #12
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I wouldn't feel assured with the response from any law enforcement officer asked specific questions relating to state firearms regulations. (Well perhaps simple questions). There is no way to determine whether or not their personal bias isn't reflected in their answer. Let alone it being the correct one. I can just see using this as an affirmative defense to firearms changes. "Well the cop said it was alright."

When I have a question regarding state firearms laws, I go to the state statutes and ordinances for my answers.
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Old March 20, 2013, 01:24 PM   #13
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Fragtagninja, I would take all advice by whomever, cop or forum master, with a grain of salt and do your own research about State Statutes covering firearms.
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Old March 20, 2013, 03:59 PM   #14
PawPaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dajowi
I wouldn't feel assured with the response from any law enforcement officer asked specific questions relating to state firearms regulations. (Well perhaps simple questions). There is no way to determine whether or not their personal bias isn't reflected in their answer. Let alone it being the correct one. I can just see using this as an affirmative defense to firearms changes. "Well the cop said it was alright."
I don't feel assured either, and I've been a cop for over 30 years. Most cops don't know gun law as well as the average citizen and there is a whole lot of misinformation our there.

Handgunlaw.us is about the best available resource for casual questions.

The NRA-ILA also has a handy guide you might use as a resource.
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Old March 21, 2013, 04:34 PM   #15
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Reciprocity changes all the time. A few weeks ago, Nevada decided to stop recognizing Arizona's CCW permit. It took handgunlaw.us a couple days to get the changes up.

Handgunlaw.us is an excellent resource, but checking your own state's public safety office, and that of the state you wish to travel in will at least help to get the most up to date info.
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Old March 22, 2013, 12:35 AM   #16
fragtagninja
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Thanks guys.
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Old March 22, 2013, 08:51 AM   #17
xtphreak
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Re: A question of obeying the law

In SC working right now, my atty asked me about carrying concealed on my person while in a car.
I said with a Concealed Carry Permit no problem. .
He has a case with SLED charging a client for carrying on his person, with a permit, in his car.
I looked at the SLED website and their copy of the law is pre-2007!!
Which is when the law was changed.
If you look at the SC Legislature site, there's an additional paragraph in the law (added in 2007) that is omitted on the SLED site.

Moral of this story ...
Do your own research and if in doubt with new laws being widely known to LEOs ... carry a copy.
That way he can say in court, yes I did read the law the defendant showed me, and yes I did ignore what it said.
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Old March 22, 2013, 09:47 AM   #18
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Welcome to TFL, xtphreak!

A more likely scenario, IMO, is that the officer will decline to read it, and then testify, "Yes, the defendant tried to hand me some paper. I don't kno what it was, because I didn't read it." Even if the officer does read it, he's not obliged to believe that the document handed to him by the driver is what the driver claims it to be, or that it means that the driver claims it means.
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Old March 22, 2013, 10:08 AM   #19
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Quote:
Even if the officer does read it, he's not obliged to believe that the document handed to him by the driver is what the driver claims it to be, or that it means that the driver claims it means.
In several states, carry permits are a form of affirmative defense. That is, you're assumed to be engaged in unlawful activity until you can prove otherwise, usually by producing documentation. However, law enforcement isn't bound in such cases to accept the documentation. Affirmative defense is generally applied at the trial level, not the arrest level.
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Old March 22, 2013, 05:22 PM   #20
fragtagninja
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My god what has happened to this country? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? I suppose I might as well leave it behind.
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Old March 22, 2013, 07:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
In several states, carry permits are a form of affirmative defense. That is, you're assumed to be engaged in unlawful activity until you can prove otherwise, usually by producing documentation. However, law enforcement isn't bound in such cases to accept the documentation. Affirmative defense is generally applied at the trial level, not the arrest level.
+1 Tom

If you are going to carry, all it takes in any states is one overzealous LEO for you to take a trip to the county jail. Besides copies of the law, it is a good idea to have the number of a Pro 2A attorney handy. Even if your state is as pro gun as it gets, all it takes is one LEO who doesn't know or understand the law and at a minimum you are in jail for a few hours, your car towed etc.

Honestly, I think getting your lawyer on your cell phone is probably more of a deterrent in this day and age than a copy of the law when it comes to staving off unlawful arrest on 2A matters.
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Old March 22, 2013, 09:13 PM   #22
Tom Servo
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What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
In certain cases, like carry permits and NFA items, we don't have the acknowledgement of a right. We have a permitted privilege, which is actually framed as a defense against prosecution.

In the case of carry outside the home, perhaps that will change with a few court rulings. In the meantime, it is treated as a crime in many places, and the only way to prove exemption is to first admit to committing a crime.

It's the same doctrine as using force in self-defense. I have to admit I shot Jimbo before I can assert that it was in self-defense.
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Old March 24, 2013, 02:23 PM   #23
ClydeFrog
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My input...

1st off, if you are a new TFL member, welcome;
2nd, it's refreshing to know you want to know & understand the local-state gun/use of force laws. Many gun & tactics forum members seem to have a hey, so what mindset or live in a fantasy-world w/o LE investigations, civil lawsuits, laws, or any ramifications from a use of force event.

For travel or firearms related issues, I'd see: www.nra.org www.handgunlaw.us www.gunlawguide.com www.paladin-press.com www.deltapress.com .

If you plan to carry a firearm or have a valid CC license/permit, have a legal plan/system set up to aid you in a emergency/legal jam.

If you are pumping gas at a service station at 1130pm & something goes sideways, you can deal with it.
Or if you are by your hotel/resort room & things go sideways, you'll be in a better position to address the legal/use of force issues.

As a hotel/resort security guard in a few locations near a popular tourist area, I used to say; "They came here on vacation, where did their brains go?"
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Old March 26, 2013, 06:33 AM   #24
shortwave
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Quote:
I've found it best to contact the Attorney Generals of the Sates I plan on traveling to or through about any questions on gun laws.
Same here.
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Old March 26, 2013, 11:28 AM   #25
ClydeFrog
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posts, correct information...

I read over a few topic posts here & I agree, you can not always trust or go by what a public agency or police dept may say re: gun laws/SOPs.

FWIW: I looked over my metro city's website re: firearms/licenses. The police use old & out of date material.
The state's Div of Licensing office hasnt updated the security industry hand-outs/handbooks since 2008. They have changed commissioners & some of the gun laws/SOPs could be reviewed-modified IMO.

The www.mylegalheat.com site & smartphone apps do look very good for a armed citizen or armed professional(security PI corrections EP agent etc).

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