The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 18, 2013, 07:00 PM   #1
Hiker 1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 519
Colorado Gun Owners - Don't Surrender!

Keep up the pressure on your state senators!

I spoke directly to mine today (he's a Democrat) and he was definitely on the fence. In fact, he said he had heard from many of his constituents, most of whom were against the new restrictions passed in the Co House.

Don't relent!
Hiker 1 is offline  
Old February 18, 2013, 07:30 PM   #2
iraiam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 6, 2012
Location: Lakewood, CO
Posts: 875
I won't! I'm sending out another set ot letters emails as i type. Additionally I am working on a letter to my House representative that voted yes on all for of these bills.

My letter does contain language accusing him of being a domestic enemy of the Constitution, You think it's over the top? Maybe, but that's where I'm at.
__________________
NRA Lifetime Member Since 1999

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few public officials." George Mason
iraiam is offline  
Old February 18, 2013, 08:07 PM   #3
Hiker 1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 519
It might be a little over the top.
You could suggest your extreme disappointment in this important freedom-of-choice issue and that you will be voting AND donating to his opposition.
Hiker 1 is offline  
Old February 18, 2013, 08:09 PM   #4
Skadoosh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,776
If the shoe fits...
__________________
NRA Life Member (2003)
USN Retired
I think that one of the notions common to the anti-gunner is the idea that being a victim is 'noble'; as if it is better to be noble in your suffering than disruptive in your own defense.
Skadoosh is offline  
Old February 18, 2013, 08:48 PM   #5
balyon85
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2013
Location: Lochbuie, CO
Posts: 140
Re: Colorado Gun Owners - Don't Surrender!

I've also used the Governor's website to let him know if he is serious about creating jobs he won't sign for the destruction of them with HB13-1224.
balyon85 is offline  
Old February 18, 2013, 09:49 PM   #6
locnload
Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2010
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 96
Though its like beating my head against a rock wall, I keep trying. My representatives (the ones I can vote for) are staunchly on our side and will not cave, dems from other districts seem hell bent to do what dems do, and don't care what I or anyone else says. We can hope that Governor Hickenlooper has the political sense to realize that while gun control is great stuff in his political Denver bubble, it could be a career ender in much of the rest of the state. If he has his eye on a Presidential run in the future as some say, he will need the support of much of the state, not just the shinning liberal urban centers. The mood out here in the mountains, the prarries, and the agricultural ares is one of not just disappointment, but outright anger. The two hundred Magpul employees that will either become unemployed or have to uproute and move, and the seven or eight hundred related workers that will be adversely affected by Magpuls exodous will not forgive and forget. It is one thing to have a part of the population that does not support you, it is quite another to have many that vow to actively work to destroy your chances at ever being elected to anything again. All of those that are supporting these stupid proposals had best remember that.
And as I like to point out that while I do not condon threats of violence against these "more equal than other, animals" (from Orwell's Animal Farm) at the State Capital, they must understand that laws they pass, must be enforced, at the barrel of a State owned gun, so they are in reality, threatening Colorado residents with violence if we choose to not voluntarily load ourselves onto the cattlecars for transport to the "camps". People will began to make up their own minds when we have crossed the line from annoying stupid laws and inconvienience, to tyrany. When that happens, all bets are off.
locnload is offline  
Old February 18, 2013, 10:56 PM   #7
USMCGrunt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2000
Location: Somewhere in 13T EG
Posts: 626
I'm not even from Colorado and I still sent the senators an email promising them that if these bills become law, I will not be spending any more time (or tourism dollars) at Estes Park but will instead look at going to Jackson Hole, Montana and the Dakotas, spending my tourism money in those states instead.
USMCGrunt is offline  
Old February 18, 2013, 11:57 PM   #8
Hiker 1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 519
locload - is John Kefalas your state senator? http://www.johnkefalas.org/
I called him at 720-254-7598 and spoke to him directly. He is getting a lot of pressure from his pro-gun constituents. Nice guy and seemed reasonable.

Call him tomorrow. Keep it respectful but let him know that you will be watching his vote.

Keep the heat up on Hickenlooper as well. His website has a drop-down where you can adress each bill individually.

http://www.colorado.gov/govhdir/requ...inion-leg.html

Hickenlooper is a moderate, but he smells black gold here in Co (fracking) and is willing to sell out our gun rights for easy EPA permits.
Hiker 1 is offline  
Old February 18, 2013, 11:59 PM   #9
Hiker 1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 519
USMCGrunt - we love your tourist dollars, but I don't blame you. I'm not moving out of state, but I can certainly vacation elsewhere as well.

Thanks for turning up the heat on these clowns.
Hiker 1 is offline  
Old February 19, 2013, 03:10 AM   #10
jimpeel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 1999
Location: Longmont, CO, USA
Posts: 4,488
The legislation passed the House and is on its way to a firmly liberal democrat senate where it is sure to pass. Hickenlooper is sleeping with his pen so he can sign it at his earliest convenience.

Mike Rosen, KOA 850 Denver, had an hour segment on this today. I was on and told him that this is merely symbolism over substance.

HERE IS THE LINK to the audio of the segment in .mp3 format.

My statement starts at ~30:45.

This is a sad day for the formerly free state of Colorado. Mike Rosen has the governor on every month for an interview and he takes calls from the listeners. I don't know what day he does this but if you can try to get on and let him know -- RESPECTFULLY -- how you feel about this legislation. I will try to find out when that will be and give a heads up.

I moved here from CA in 1994 and unfortunately many others followed. Unfortunately, they were not of the same stripe. They have chosen to bring with them the same failed policies which caused them to flee CA in the first place.
__________________
Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

"Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare

"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
-- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey
jimpeel is offline  
Old February 19, 2013, 09:37 AM   #11
Hiker 1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 519
The Colorado GOP is also terribly fragmented and disorganized. That certainly doesn't help.

Nonetheless, don't give up until it becomes law.
Hiker 1 is offline  
Old February 19, 2013, 10:10 AM   #12
NJgunowner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,095
I think the phrase you are looking for is "Don't give up even if it becomes law"

Vote the goobers out and start over.
__________________
Sig 1911 Traditional reverse two tone, Sig p226 .40, Sig 556 Swat patrol, Baby Eagle/jerico steel .45
NJgunowner is offline  
Old February 19, 2013, 11:35 AM   #13
Hiker 1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 519
^ Agreed!
Hiker 1 is offline  
Old February 19, 2013, 01:17 PM   #14
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 10,521
Quote:
Vote the goobers out and start over.
You're asking this of the same people who voted the goobers in. Those who voted for these politicians over some other platform share the blame, but so do gun owners who didn't bother to get involved until the horse was out of the barn.

So, if it passes, perhaps some politicians will lose their jobs. Perhaps it'll get overturned by the courts. Perhaps. However, things like this would be preventable if voters would educate themselves and take the longview.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change.
--Randall Munroe
Tom Servo is offline  
Old February 19, 2013, 02:29 PM   #15
DASHZNT
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 13, 2012
Posts: 179
Re: Colorado Gun Owners - Don't Surrender!

Just move out and move on.. too many people get caught up in the BS when they need to pack their stuff ans move somewhere else that suits their needs... or dont and deal with it.
DASHZNT is offline  
Old February 19, 2013, 02:43 PM   #16
NJgunowner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,095
I always find the "just move" argument amusing. Pack up your family, your life, your business, and start over! Sounds great, in theory. In reality it just isn't that easy for most people. Not to mention these jokers tend to follow us around and get their brand of stupid voted in. For most people FIGHTING to take their rights back makes a lot more sense than moving to a new state that may have the same problem 5 or 10 years down the road.
__________________
Sig 1911 Traditional reverse two tone, Sig p226 .40, Sig 556 Swat patrol, Baby Eagle/jerico steel .45
NJgunowner is offline  
Old February 19, 2013, 05:41 PM   #17
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,162
Re: Moving out

NJgunowner makes a very good point. It's easy for those of us in the Patron States of Shootin' Stuff to say, "just move." Realistically, though, our gun-owning friends in CA, NY, NJ, IL, etc., have friends, family, businesses and jobs. Many of them can't "just move."

What's more is that we, the gun-owning community, need for them to stay. Why? Because we need registered, gun-owning voters in those jurisdictions. If I ever want to have a hope of carrying a concealed firearm in (for example) CA, I need CA voters to get out and put folks in office who will change the law for me. If all the legal gun owners move out of one of those states, I will never be able to carry there, should I have to go on business.
__________________
A gunfight is not the time to learn new skills.

If you ever have a real need for more than a couple of magazines, your problem is not a shortage of magazines. It's a shortage of people on your side of the argument. -- Art Eatman
Spats McGee is offline  
Old February 19, 2013, 06:25 PM   #18
thallub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 2,121
Quote:
What's more is that we, the gun-owning community, need for them to stay. Why? Because we need registered, gun-owning voters in those jurisdictions.
We need registered, gun-owning voters in those jurisdictions who will vote for pro-gun politicians.

Too many gunowners do not value their Second Amendment rights. They vote for anti-gun politicians because of other issues.
thallub is offline  
Old February 19, 2013, 06:40 PM   #19
Tickling
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 17, 2011
Posts: 181
Here's an opinion form on the Colorado Governor's website for those of you in Colorado..

http://www.colorado.gov/govhdir/requ...inion-leg.html

Just fill in the bill # and vote nay. It may not help now, but if they see enough opposition they might think twice before doing this again.


EDIT: And full list of Colorado state Senator's contact pages: http://www.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLI...chamber=Senate

Last edited by Tickling; February 19, 2013 at 06:51 PM.
Tickling is offline  
Old February 19, 2013, 06:51 PM   #20
Webleymkv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,937
Quote:
The legislation passed the House and is on its way to a firmly liberal democrat senate where it is sure to pass. Hickenlooper is sleeping with his pen so he can sign it at his earliest convenience.
Quote:
The Colorado GOP is also terribly fragmented and disorganized. That certainly doesn't help.
Perhaps I'm missing something because I'm not from CO or particularly familiar with their politics, but as I understand it the CO state senate is 20 Democrats to 15 Republicans while the House is 37 Democrats to 28 Republicans. It seems to me that given the narrower margin in the senate, the chances of defeating these gun control bills there are greater than they were in the house (and they only narrowly passed the house).

Likewise, the new gun control bills received unanimous Republican opposition as well as a few Democrats "crossing the aisle" to vote against them as well. That certainly doesn't seem "fragmented and disorganized" to me. All that's needed to stop these bills from becoming law is a similar Republican response as what was seen in the house and three Democrats to "cross the aisle". It seems to me that the most important letters to write are probably to fence-sitting Democrats.
__________________
Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan
Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd
All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar
Webleymkv is offline  
Old February 19, 2013, 07:51 PM   #21
balyon85
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2013
Location: Lochbuie, CO
Posts: 140
Re: Colorado Gun Owners - Don't Surrender!

Think the Colorado Senate is informed of the NIJ internal memo stating none of this is proven to be effective?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...ons-dont-work/
balyon85 is offline  
Old February 19, 2013, 08:01 PM   #22
iraiam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 6, 2012
Location: Lakewood, CO
Posts: 875
Quote:
You could suggest your extreme disappointment in this important freedom-of-choice issue and that you will be voting AND donating to his opposition.
I also said almost exactly that as well, but I could not resist calling him a domenstic enemy of the constitution. I was actually quite restrained, I really wanted to use the term Jack Booted Thug, but I restrained myself.
__________________
NRA Lifetime Member Since 1999

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few public officials." George Mason
iraiam is offline  
Old February 19, 2013, 09:33 PM   #23
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by thallub
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats McGee
What's more is that we, the gun-owning community, need for them to stay. Why? Because we need registered, gun-owning voters in those jurisdictions.
We need registered, gun-owning voters in those jurisdictions who will vote for pro-gun politicians.

Too many gunowners do not value their Second Amendment rights. They vote for anti-gun politicians because of other issues.
I stand corrected. Absolutely right.
__________________
A gunfight is not the time to learn new skills.

If you ever have a real need for more than a couple of magazines, your problem is not a shortage of magazines. It's a shortage of people on your side of the argument. -- Art Eatman
Spats McGee is offline  
Old February 20, 2013, 02:51 AM   #24
doofus47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2010
Location: live in a in a house when i'm not in a tent
Posts: 1,332
OK, b/c I like to contribute and not just Gripe

Here's a copy of the letter I sent to my state senator. Feel free to cut and paste (and edit as you see fit to match your mood) to send to your rep:

Quote:
Mr. Jones, I'd like to express my grave reservations with a number of bills that will pass your desk in the near future. I would like to you to vote against their passage. Below I list the prospective measures and my reasoned arguments against each:

1. HB 13-1224 "Banning high capacity ammunition magazines."
Is there any evidence that the 16th bullet is a magical bullet that kills more people than the first 15? None. Will this reduce the numbers of people hurt by firearms? Not according to FBI data. California passed a capacity ban effective in 2000 and the per capita murder rate of "the golden state" has exceeded that of gun-happy Texas for 9 of the last 11 years.
Source:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murd...nd-state#MRord
As if that bit of empirical data weren't enough, the National Institute of Justice (www.nij.gov/) has predicted failure of such measures in an internal memo:
Source:
http://www.nraila.org/media/10883516...olicy-memo.pdf

If the magazine limit will do nothing to limit violence, we shouldn't add such a law to the books merely to occupy law enforcement nor to baffle ordinary citizens.

2. HB 13-1226 "Banning conceal carry on College Campuses"

The argument for repeal has NO empirical data to back it up. Conceal carry has been legal for several years and there have been no criminal shootings involving any licensed concealed weapons carriers at either CU or CSU. None.
Source A: http://police.colorado.edu/uniform-crime-reports
Source B: http://police.colostate.edu/pdfs/2012-Safety-Report.pdf

Why should citizens who are licensed to carry concealed in their public activities in other parts of society suddenly be considered "dangerous" when on campus? Statistics show that CCW carriers are less likely to commit crimes than other sub-sets of citizens. The first 5 years of concealed carry in Texas (I quote them b/c they have done the best study) shows non-carriers are 7.7 times (males) and 7.5 times (female) more likely to be commit violent crimes.
source: www.txchia.org/sturdevant2000.htm

Conversely, as opposed to numerous other states, Colorado has suffered NO mass shootings on our college campuses in that period. There is no evidence that this is causally related to the ability to conceal carry on Colorado campuses, but if there has been no harm NOR has there been any damage, why would you want to tinker with the current situation? As with other forms of bigotry, the prejudice against concealed carry on campus cannot be justified using empirical measure.

3. HB 13-1229 "Requirement for background checks for all gun transfers within the state."
Consider first that this requirement would have done nothing to prevent the Aurora theater shooting. His guns were purchased legally and that madman passed a background check.

Consider second that the myth that this will prevent guns reaching criminals has been disproved. California already has this rule in effect and yet the earlier-quoted NIJ memo finds that criminals in Los Angeles continue to prefer to source their firearms from local gun shops via straw purchases by people who can pass gun background checks rather than from other states with less stringent gun laws.
Source: http://www.nraila.org/media/10883516...olicy-memo.pdf
Consider also that Colorado Bureau of Investigation shows that most homicides in our state in 2011 (the last year of available statistics) shows that although there were 78 homicides committed with firearms, the total number of crime-related circumstances (drugs, assault on officer, other felony, gang-related) was 11 which indicates that we are not undergoing a crime wave that is being enabled by scads of guns leaking from the hands of private citizens to criminals.
Source: http://crimeinco.cbi.state.co.us/cic.../homicide.html. Note: these statistics are not detailed enough to determine if the 11 murders I note above were even committed using a firearm. Perhaps you could ask them to provide more details concerning the source of firearms used in homicides in future reports.

Consider as well that after our Columbine tragedy, Colorado requires a standard NICS background check on all firearms transfers that take place at gun shows.

Enacting bad policies that don't substantively improve a problem doesn't qualify as good governance.

I look forward to meeting you in your office to discuss this at your convenience. Please send me your available office hours for an appointment.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to your detailed response.
Good luck to us all.
__________________
I'm right about the metric system 3/4 of the time.
doofus47 is offline  
Old February 20, 2013, 02:52 AM   #25
jimpeel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 1999
Location: Longmont, CO, USA
Posts: 4,488
Mike Rosen will have the governor on his show as a guest on March 13. Those here who reside in Colorado need to call in and let Governor Hickenlooper know their displeasure at the passage of these bills.

I will personally be telling him that I will not abide by these laws under any circumstances.

The station is HERE. Simply click on the "LISTEN LIVE" button at the top of the page to stream the station.

The station number is 303-713-8585

It will likely be next to impossible to get through because there will be many people who will want to voice their displeasure.
__________________
Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

"Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare

"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
-- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey
jimpeel is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.15266 seconds with 9 queries