The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Revolver Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 29, 2013, 03:00 PM   #1
bipe215
Member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2008
Posts: 84
SW 500 Problem

Shooting my previously trouble free 500 today and it locked up on the first shot. Cylinder would not turn. The spent case appeared to be back against the frame. Got the cylinder open and could not eject the fired case. Had to drive it out with a dowel. No visible signs of over pressure. This is a load I have used since I bought the gun. Starline brass, 350 gr Sierra JHP over 40 grains of 296. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

Steve
bipe215 is offline  
Old March 29, 2013, 03:35 PM   #2
Lavan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 1999
Location: California
Posts: 2,107
check for dirt under the ejector star.
Lavan is offline  
Old March 29, 2013, 04:24 PM   #3
buck460XVR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2006
Posts: 2,082
Quote:
Had to drive it out with a dowel. No visible signs of over pressure.

I beg to differ. Extraction that sticky that cases need to be forcibly driven out of the chamber with a dowel is a sign of overpressure. Dirt under the extractor star may inhibit closing the cylinder or make it hard to open, but it is not going to give extraction problems.
buck460XVR is offline  
Old March 29, 2013, 04:32 PM   #4
Schnitzjr
Member
 
Join Date: July 11, 2012
Posts: 42
I had a shell get stuck in my 686 once, had to pry it out with a knife worked under the rim of the case. It was a .357 round that swelled and jammed. You can see the "weak" area in the case.
Schnitzjr is offline  
Old March 29, 2013, 05:18 PM   #5
bipe215
Member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2008
Posts: 84
The case looked good. It was once fired brass. So unless the case was defective, don't think it had a weak spot. This is not a hot load for this gun.

Steve
bipe215 is offline  
Old March 29, 2013, 05:40 PM   #6
Lavan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 1999
Location: California
Posts: 2,107
I thought that MAYBE the star could be far enough back to let the case swell somwhat at the rear.
But careful analysis leads me to only one conclusion.


The gun is simply too big to work.
Lavan is offline  
Old March 29, 2013, 11:15 PM   #7
Sevens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 8,824
Quote:
had to pry it out with a knife worked under the rim of the case.
If you were in the middle of a gunfight, I see why you did this.

Otherwise
__________________
Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.
Sevens is online now  
Old March 30, 2013, 12:33 AM   #8
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: 1B ID
Posts: 6,817
Quote:
The case looked good. It was once fired brass. So unless the case was defective, don't think it had a weak spot. This is not a hot load for this gun.
Just because you're 3 grains under the max load, does not mean you're shooting light loads. You're still very near maximum pressure for the cartridge.

Just a slight hiccup in the normal set of circumstances (or load procedures) for that load could have pushed it over the limit, into over-pressure territory.


.500 S&W Magnum isn't like .38 Special, where a 7% deviation in powder charge isn't going to be a huge deal, because its max pressure is relatively low.
With .500 S&W, you're essentially detonating hand grenades, in order to launch a bullet. Any slight problems with that "controlled" detonation, and it becomes a very destructive and uncontrolled detonation.

I suspect there was an unseen factor that caused an over-pressure. It could be anything... Over-charged case. Excess oil in the bore. Lint in the forcing cone. Spider in the cylinder. Contaminated powder. Cleaning patch left in the bore. And the list goes on....
With H110, it could have even been a short-charged case that caused it.
__________________
"Such is the strange way that man works -- first he virtually destroys a species and then does everything in his power to restore it."
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 06:54 AM   #9
cryogenic419
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2009
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 417
I had a situation similiar to this happen to me at the range with my 500 with low-mid powered ammo. After I got the fired cases out and was putting new ammo in the cylinder I noticed it was a little tight and rough going in. Cleaned and lubed the cylinder and all was well with the world. Not saying this will fix your problem but it fixed my problem, might be worth a try.
cryogenic419 is offline  
Old March 30, 2013, 09:14 AM   #10
bipe215
Member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2008
Posts: 84
Thanks for all the info. Now that I think about it, that one shot did not have as much recoil as usual.

Steve
bipe215 is offline  
Old March 31, 2013, 07:51 AM   #11
Sevens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 8,824
H110 (W296) have very specific warnings from the powder distributors/manufacturers about how it gets erratic when reduced. If you accidentally and unknowingly UNDER-charged the case, there's really no telling what the result could be -- or if you could even replicate it.

The number of powders I own, keep and routinely work with is just this side of ridiculous, but I've still never bought any H110. Too many other choices available to me to want to work with the quirkiness of H110.
__________________
Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.
Sevens is online now  
Old March 31, 2013, 08:09 AM   #12
roadrash
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2005
Posts: 307
I have never had a problem using H110 after thousands of rounds of both .357 and .44 magnum loads.Burns clean produces maximum velocities,just stick to the manual and do not reduce loads more than listed.Wanna talk about quirky powders lets talk blue dot.

Last edited by roadrash; March 31, 2013 at 08:58 AM.
roadrash is offline  
Old March 31, 2013, 08:17 AM   #13
DiscoRacing
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 19, 2008
Location: milton, wv
Posts: 3,640
+1 roadrash...

.. Ive loaded em in both 500 and 460 for round after round.
__________________
Desert Eagle Alliance Group Launcher Extraordinaire ______
----Get Busy Live'n.....Or....Get Busy Die'n......Red
-------They call me Dr. Bob,,,, I have a PhD in S&W
DiscoRacing is offline  
Old March 31, 2013, 09:04 AM   #14
bipe215
Member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2008
Posts: 84
Agreed. I've always used 110 for 44 mag with excellent results.

Steve
bipe215 is offline  
Old March 31, 2013, 01:55 PM   #15
buck460XVR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2006
Posts: 2,082
The warnings about H110/W296 and downloading have to do with stuck bullets, not detonation as many believe. Because it is harder to ignite, it needs near a full case, a firm crimp and in some cases, a magnum primer. Not a big deal when loading magnum revolvers. Stay within published loads and there is no worry of a squib. Because it fills or nearly fills a case with a regular load, not only is is impossible to double charge, but in most cases, I doubt if one could get enough of it in a case to blow a gun up. Same with IMR4227. While the parameters of H110/W296 are narrow, within those parameters, there are few , in any, powders that can compete with it's velocity and accuracy.
buck460XVR is offline  
Old March 31, 2013, 02:33 PM   #16
Sevens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 8,824
While what you said is true... newer powders are coming along that may provide the velocity the H110 is famous for without it's quirks. NO - I am not talking about Lil'Gun, I know you have a seething, white-hot hate for Lil'Gun, so please don't go that direction. (your hate is justified, just that it's well documented)

H110 also calls for a magnum primer. That's fine -- stuff works perfectly when it's run as recommended. Myself, I load 17 different handgun rounds and I dabble in more than a half-dozen rifle rounds, so four different primer sizes was my self imposed limit and I'm not ALSO buying magnum primers.

For loads that H110 excels at, I'm using Alliant 2400, which doesn't get quite where H110 goes, but it's a lot friendlier to work with and it CAN be reduced. It's more flexible. For just as fast (faster?) than H110, I'm experimenting with both AA#9 and Power Pro 300-MP. Until chrono weather is here, I don't have results yet.

So don't take my post as H110 -hate-, it's just a shout-out that not everyone needs it. Not being able to reduce a powder is like wiping away a cardinal handloading rule. I don't like that. Quirk, feature, caveat, call it how you see it, but using H110 doesn't fit with my methods of load development.

H110/W296 is a fantastic powder, but I've gone nearly 25 years without it, I will go forth in the same manner. There is life beyond H110, and this comes from a guy that has like two dozen DIFFERENT powders on hand.
__________________
Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.
Sevens is online now  
Old March 31, 2013, 03:11 PM   #17
Lost Sheep
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2009
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 3,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by buck460XVR
The warnings about H110/W296 and downloading have to do with stuck bullets, not detonation as many believe.
I would (as I am sure many others reading this thread will) like to be able to research that assertion. Please post your source.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buck460XVR
Because it is harder to ignite, it needs near a full case, a firm crimp and in some cases, a magnum primer. Not a big deal when loading magnum revolvers. Stay within published loads and there is no worry of a squib. Because it fills or nearly fills a case with a regular load, not only is is impossible to double charge, but in most cases, I doubt if one could get enough of it in a case to blow a gun up. Same with IMR4227. While the parameters of H110/W296 are narrow, within those parameters, there are few , in any, powders that can compete with it's velocity and accuracy.
Amen to that.

Lost Sheep
Lost Sheep is offline  
Old March 31, 2013, 10:20 PM   #18
buck460XVR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2006
Posts: 2,082
Quote:
I would (as I am sure many others reading this thread will) like to be able to research that assertion. Please post your source.

The Detonation myth is one that's been around for years, generally used by those as an excuse other than double charge when their gun goes ka-boom. While it generally is used when it comes to small volume fast powders in large capacity cases, many have applied the warnings of "Do not reduce" of H110/W296 to this without proof. H110/W296 needs the pressure of a full or nearly full case to help it completely burn, one reason it needs a firm crimp for consistency. Without this complete burn combined with a below published charge to start with ends up with....yep, a stuck case. I have an old e-mail somewhere from Hodgdon confirming this, but since the reply was to a question I asked them a coupla years ago, I have not located it yet. Till I do, here is a good explanation of how damage to firearms from detonation is a myth. I particularly like the phrase...." We are firmly convinced that neither Bullseye or any other pistol powders magically misbehave in handguns"


Detonation myth
buck460XVR is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10423 seconds with 9 queries