The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old March 16, 2013, 09:29 PM   #1
t45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2010
Location: Belews Creek, NC.
Posts: 599
LGS Ripoff!

I stopped in a south/eastern Tennessee gun store today and was completely disgusted with what I saw on their price gouging and lack of disregard for their customers. This was a well stocked small town store that seemed to have plenty of items that we all have been looking for. It appeared that their gouging was centered around just the popular pistol calibers and the AR platforms. I will never buy a thing from this store if this is how they do business. A few examples of the gouging below.
1000 small pistol primers $52
1lb of Universal Clays powder $50
20rds of PMC 223 FMJ $22
100rds of CCI 22LR $22
Used 20rd G.I. AR mags $30
AR 30rd Pmags $45
525rd carton of Remington 22LR $89
50rds of U.M.C 45acp FMJ $45
All their AR platforms were from $500 to almost a $1000 higher than normal.

It was very evident that they were taking full advantage of the crazynes going on. Large rifle primers were $32/1000. Medium and large caliber rifle powders were $29/1lb. Loaded factory rifle ammo was in line also.

I hope the locals remember how they were cheated when prices and availability start to improve.
t45 is offline  
Old March 16, 2013, 09:44 PM   #2
kilimanjaro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2009
Posts: 1,882
Those prices are almost double our LGS prices here.
kilimanjaro is offline  
Old March 16, 2013, 09:48 PM   #3
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 10,340
Those prices are high, but they are nothing compared to what I've seen private sellers doing at gun shows.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change.
--Randall Munroe
Tom Servo is offline  
Old March 16, 2013, 09:49 PM   #4
Joe_Pike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2010
Posts: 1,028
It's called capitalism. Supply-demand will eventually find an equilibrium. In the meantime don't by anything when you find that the prices are too high. That's how you deal with that scenario.

I picked up 8 boxes of Independence 5.56 tonight for $10.97 each at Bass Pro, but at least it was there and not $1.00 a round. I hold out until I find something I can live with.
__________________
Stay Groovy

Last edited by Joe_Pike; March 16, 2013 at 10:18 PM.
Joe_Pike is offline  
Old March 16, 2013, 10:07 PM   #5
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 6,407
If you plan on waiting until prices drop back to what they were pre-Sandy Hook -- I hope you're really good at holding your breath, 'cause it ain't gonna happen. Those prices aren't gouging. Those are the new normal.
Aguila Blanca is online now  
Old March 16, 2013, 10:16 PM   #6
ScottRiqui
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 2,905
Quote:
If you plan on waiting until prices drop back to what they were pre-Sandy Hook -- I hope you're really good at holding your breath, 'cause it ain't gonna happen. Those prices aren't gouging. Those are the new normal.
$22/100 for .22lr? $1+ each for PMC .223? Small pistol primers at $52/1000? I agree that prices won't get all the way back down to pre- Sandy Hook levels, but even in my most-fevered nightmares, I really don't believe those are going to be the baseline prices from now on.

Last edited by ScottRiqui; March 17, 2013 at 10:22 AM.
ScottRiqui is offline  
Old March 16, 2013, 10:27 PM   #7
patrickmn
Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 86
Supply is increasing. Eventually the demand will return to normal. At some point people will wake up and realize that there are no widespread attempts to ban or heavily tax ammunition. When the stockpiling and panic buying ends people will not be buying ammunition. Demand will, when the panic is over, be lower than before last December and the production will be higher than before last December. When that happens, prices will be lower than before last December.

Supply and demand works both ways.
__________________
Patrick
patrickmn is offline  
Old March 16, 2013, 10:35 PM   #8
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 10,340
Quote:
Those prices aren't gouging. Those are the new normal.
I'm not so sure. There's always an online outfit undercutting everyone else, and many consumers consider price their primary factor. Prices will most likely come down.

The new normal? Probably a 5% or so increase over pre-December levels.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change.
--Randall Munroe
Tom Servo is offline  
Old March 17, 2013, 01:30 AM   #9
weblance
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2012
Posts: 624
Quote:
If you plan on waiting until prices drop back to what they were pre-Sandy Hook -- I hope you're really good at holding your breath, 'cause it ain't gonna happen. Those prices aren't gouging. Those are the new normal.
NOPE. I dont believe this one bit. Its simply panic, and greed, that has caused this situation. It might take a year, but I see no reason why things wont go back to normal. They did after the last panic.
weblance is offline  
Old March 17, 2013, 04:39 AM   #10
Sport45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 1999
Location: Too close to Houston
Posts: 4,068
If your LGS had maintained old prices, the shelves would have been bare when you walked in.

Would that have made you happier?

At least he has stock for those willing to pay the price.
__________________
Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.
Sport45 is offline  
Old March 17, 2013, 05:35 AM   #11
PzGren
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 14, 2001
Posts: 948
Nobody gets cheated when a gunstore lists exorbitant prices. It takes a foolish, spell unprepared and uneducated customer, for a perfect symbiosis.

By the way, do you know how that gunstore will be able to restock its inventory and get by during the rest of this uncertain time if he sells out at pre-panic prices?

Will you donate money for their electrical bill when they cannot restock, pay their rent?
PzGren is offline  
Old March 17, 2013, 05:46 AM   #12
Ted D
Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2013
Location: Dayton.Ohio
Posts: 71
I went to Cabelas yesterday they had abarrel full of Ar mags for $25.All Ammo wiped out .22s limt 1 brick per person that didn't last long had aline of at least 100 people in line for those.than went to Gander Mountain American Eagel .44 mag $65 for a box of 50.I paid $35 for the same thing back in Nov.
__________________
LIFE MEMBER OF THE NRA.GREENHORN RELOADER
Ted D is offline  
Old March 17, 2013, 05:49 AM   #13
Kreyzhorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2006
Location: NKY
Posts: 11,482
Prices will come down as demand will eventually decline. Let's face it, this shortage is brought on buy panic buying and at some point the panic will ease.
__________________
"He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

Last edited by Kreyzhorse; March 17, 2013 at 06:03 AM.
Kreyzhorse is offline  
Old March 17, 2013, 05:56 AM   #14
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 2,229
I agree, prices will come back down when supply rises and demand slows down.
rebs is offline  
Old March 17, 2013, 08:08 AM   #15
shuler13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2011
Location: Austin
Posts: 156
LGS Ripoff!

Anytime someone says "this is the new normal" I interpret that as someone justifying ripping someone off or justifying buying something they should've waited on. The sales model will return to costs of supplies plus small profit margin. Unless the cost of brass, steel, etc doubled at the same time that assembly costs doubled, then prices will come back down. It will return to someone having more than they can sell and then lowering the price to move inventory.
shuler13 is offline  
Old March 17, 2013, 08:37 AM   #16
Uncle Buck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 21, 2009
Location: West Central Missouri
Posts: 2,561
OK, I guess I missed the rip-of part.

The LGS has high prices. So doesn't Southerby's Auction House.
- The large Gun Store has already purchased the items for resale.
- Southerby's Auction House runs on commission, usually 28% from the seller and also charges the buyers a 10% buyers fee. (They have not purchased anything for inventory.)

Who runs the biggest risk of losing money? The LGS who has money tied up in inventory or the Auction house who has no capital at risk?

The market (Buyers) determine the price. When the sellers can no longer get what they are asking, the price comes down.

I bought an AR platform from a friend for $500.00. The going prices where $800.00 + at the time. If I decide to resell the rifle now, should I only be allowed to ask $650.00 for it? (A 30% markup?)
__________________
Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.
Uncle Buck is offline  
Old March 17, 2013, 08:52 AM   #17
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 16,855
Buy before the panic starts. Buy after the panic subsides. I haven't bought a bullet since the panic.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old March 17, 2013, 09:02 AM   #18
Jimboh247
Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2012
Location: Lexington, NC
Posts: 85
On the other side of the coin....

Do you think there will be all kinds of ammo, weaponry and gear on the market when the bubble bursts?

Will those who aren't into shooting as a hobby be dumping product into the market when they realize the AR they bought is only in the closet collecting dust?
Jimboh247 is offline  
Old March 17, 2013, 09:12 AM   #19
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,085
Non-shooters who overpaid for ARs won't be in a big hurry to take a loss, that's for sure. A few things have to happen before all those new gun owners start putting their shiny new EBRs back on the market: (1) The legislative push to outlaw EBRs has to pass; (2) those folks have to realize that ARs aren't actually going to be impossible to get; and (3) as to each one individually, something has to happen so that a particular new owner needs the cash more than they need the gun.
__________________
A gunfight is not the time to learn new skills.

If you ever have a real need for more than a couple of magazines, your problem is not a shortage of magazines. It's a shortage of people on your side of the argument. -- Art Eatman
Spats McGee is offline  
Old March 17, 2013, 09:24 AM   #20
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,789
I marvel how, when a dealer wants $1000 for an item that the buyer thinks is worth $500, it's a "ripoff" and "gouging" but that same buyer walks into the same store and the seller has a gun that the buyer thinks is worth $1000 and it's marked at $500, he seems to have no moral objection to paying a lot less than it's worth.

Curious
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old March 17, 2013, 10:11 AM   #21
Jayster
Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2013
Posts: 74
Hate to say this but when walmart has upped there federal 9mm only a buck since the madness happened and the lgs doubles the price it IS gouging IMO.

But if people buy the stuff at those prices I guess they don't agree. I am not buying at those prices. I will get it at WM when I can or wait for the madness to subside.
Jayster is offline  
Old March 17, 2013, 10:16 AM   #22
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,689
I've done much better on the ammo prices by watching Internet sources. Stopped by Cabela's on a run to Austin and there was quite a bit of 45 ACP much cheaper and lots of AR mags.

Just wait it out.

The glories of panic capitalism include fertilizing a crop of idiots.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old March 17, 2013, 11:06 AM   #23
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 10,340
Quote:
I marvel how, when a dealer wants $1000 for an item that the buyer thinks is worth $500, it's a "ripoff" and "gouging" but that same buyer walks into the same store and the seller has a gun that the buyer thinks is worth $1000 and it's marked at $500, he seems to have no moral objection to paying a lot less than it's worth.
As I've been told by several people, it works like this:

If the dealer raises the price on a rifle by 20% because his cost has gone up and supply has gone down, that's gouging. If the guy complaining buys the rifle, takes it to the gun show, and sells it at a 300% markup, that's just the free market.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change.
--Randall Munroe
Tom Servo is offline  
Old March 17, 2013, 11:33 AM   #24
weblance
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2012
Posts: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Pfleuger
I marvel how, when a dealer wants $1000 for an item that the buyer thinks is worth $500, it's a "ripoff" and "gouging" but that same buyer walks into the same store and the seller has a gun that the buyer thinks is worth $1000 and it's marked at $500, he seems to have no moral objection to paying a lot less than it's worth.

I marvel at how one of my LGS has raised prices by 60%, but two others have not. I also marvel when someone says the dealer can charge whatever he wants and if people dont want to pay that, then they can go somewhere else. I frequent the shops fairly often, and when a dealer has a Beretta Neos, or Ruger 22/45, and the price goes up $150 overnight, then they will never get my money EVER again. Its a simple as that. I dont forget. I will support the shop that didnt try to get as much money out of my pocket as they possibly think they can.
weblance is offline  
Old March 17, 2013, 11:47 AM   #25
Willie Sutton
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2012
Posts: 1,066
It's only gouging if you BUY IT at that price. Otherwise it's just advertising.


Would you rather find the following:

(1): a store with bare shelves, with an owner who sold all that he had at old prices, who can no longer get inventory, and who will be out of business soon because he still has to pay (rent, taxes, payroll, etc)?

or:

(2): a store that is still earning enough profit because there are willing buyers coming in at an adequate rate to let the owner sell what IRREPLACABLE inventory he has at prices that are high enough that he HOPES he can sell what he needs to sell to tide him thru this time until he can restock his store?


This is a time of pure survival-mode for these small businesses. A smart businessman with zero resupply will sell JUST ENOUGH every month during this time of no resupply to pay his bills... and not a single item more. The goal is to BREAK EVEN at the end of the month while RETAINING AS MUCH INVENTORY AS POSSIBLE so he can try to do the same thing next month. He's going to need to bet his business on the hope that he can get more supply before he runs out of existing inventory. NOBODY likes it but the one who has the most investment in the "issue" is the small business owner. He's not "ripping you off"...he's desperately trying to stay alive. If you do not "Get" this, you've never run a small business. Cash flow is king. The monthly march of bills across your desk NEVER ends... if you cannot get what you sell... you are screwed.


Willie


.

Last edited by Willie Sutton; March 17, 2013 at 11:56 AM.
Willie Sutton is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13406 seconds with 7 queries