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Old March 17, 2013, 12:34 PM   #26
454me
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I know they put it into some states laws but doesn't forbidding carrying in church violate the seperation of church and state? It sure would if you wanted a manger scene or the states land.
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Old March 17, 2013, 12:45 PM   #27
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Old March 17, 2013, 12:49 PM   #28
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Adamc, the church thing varies by state. To me, any large event is when you need to carry anymore, especially if emotions of other people can get involved. A church service is a great target for a shooter, as is a wedding. The wedding also runs the risk of a jealous ex showing up and trying to start trouble. I'd feel no different carrying at a wedding than while going to the store.
Me and Kycountryboy must be some kind of kin (true: my folks came out of Ky), . . . as his thoughts are mine.

The last two weddings I did not carry at was only because I was officiating, . . . and had enough on my plate to not want the worry of a 1911 also.

But, . . . when I am just a guest, . . . I either go armed, or I don't go. There are just too many truly loco's out there, . . . willing to make their point at a wedding, funeral, or other gathering, . . .

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Old March 17, 2013, 12:52 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by 454me
I know they put it into some states laws but doesn't forbidding carrying in church violate the seperation of church and state? It sure would if you wanted a manger scene or the states land.
I think one could make a case for its violating church/state separation only if carrying weapons were actually one of the tenets of the religion.

Churches aren't exempt from legal regulation just because they're churches: a fire marshall, for example, can determine the maximum legal occupancy for the church hall, and the church kitchen has to comply with board of health regulations.
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Old March 17, 2013, 01:55 PM   #30
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I think Miss Manners would say you should write a note of apology to the new couple but as it sounds unlikely that you will ever see them again (assuming you and your date are over) it may be best to let the situation die a natural death. The whole thing could have certainly been a lot worse. Sometimes, laws and social etiquette don't mesh as well as we would like. You learned and that's the important thing.
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Old March 17, 2013, 03:22 PM   #31
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I think this is why many of us have more than one carry gun. If you had a small 38 in your front pocket, this would not have happened. Think about how difficult it would have been to dance at the reception with your current rig.

IMHO, a small, light 38 needs to be in everyone's collection.
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Old March 17, 2013, 03:38 PM   #32
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I think one could make a case for its violating church/state separation only if carrying weapons were actually one of the tenets of the religion.

Churches aren't exempt from legal regulation just because they're churches: a fire marshall, for example, can determine the maximum legal occupancy for the church hall, and the church kitchen has to comply with board of health regulations.
Shirley you don't think that's the same thing! A church is private property. Forbidding the church members by laws from carrying guns --rather than just allowing the church itself to ban weapons-- is IMHO a violation of the 1st Amendment freedom of association. Several states do it anyway; we've just grown accustom to the government violating our rights whenever dealing with guns. Not every illegal infringement involves the 2nd Amendment.

BTW, the church kitchen is exempt from health inspections and does not have to be licensed unless it prepares food for the public. We just went thru that about a year ago here in Minnesota. (the mobile kitchen that serves meals at disaster sites *does* have to be licensed and inspected) It may be different in other states, but I bet it's not that much different.
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Old March 17, 2013, 03:51 PM   #33
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A person should always have a pistol for deep concealment. something like a NAA revolver or a ruger 380lcp. Stick it in or clip it to your pocket and its perfectly unnoticable.
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Old March 17, 2013, 04:14 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zxcvbob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanya
I think one could make a case for its violating church/state separation only if carrying weapons were actually one of the tenets of the religion.

Churches aren't exempt from legal regulation just because they're churches: a fire marshall, for example, can determine the maximum legal occupancy for the church hall, and the church kitchen has to comply with board of health regulations.
Shirley you don't think that's the same thing!
Never said I thought that. My point is that the issue isn't one of separation of church and state: state and local governments do in fact have laws and regulations that apply to churches, including, in some cases, restrictions on carrying concealed weapons. Do I agree with those restrictions? No.

As to church kitchens, regulations vary from state to state and depend on how the kitchen is used. In many places, if a church holds community suppers that are open to the public, the kitchen has to be licensed and inspected.

But the issue is not one of separation of church and state, but of the difference between private functions and public ones.
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Old March 17, 2013, 05:28 PM   #35
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Again, the moral is to do a visual check not just "pull down on jacket."
I would say the moral of the story is never, ever forget that you are carrying. Everything you need to do to maintain concealment should then follow.

And I might send the apology note to the bride's mother who is your date's business friend, as I understood from your opening post. That is the connection to the family that might have suffered the most embarassment.
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Old March 17, 2013, 05:50 PM   #36
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I thought there was always someone standing around a wedding with a shotgun.

Oh Well.

I carried at my wedding. I think about half the people there did.

Did have two cops (highway patrol) standing, one on each side of the door at the rear of the church.

I always got harassed about that.

They were on duty, one was a friend of mine, the other was a rookie he was training. Still looked funny though.

With tells everyone they were there to keep me from escaping.
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Old March 17, 2013, 06:12 PM   #37
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I sent a note to the date, but I do not even know who to send the apology to the bridesmaid. That is probably not possible especially since I have not heard back from the the lady I went to the even. Knowing her I doubt I will hear from her again.
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Old March 17, 2013, 11:26 PM   #38
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If the groom saw the firearm, odds are someone else may have too. The priest, organist, groomsman...anybody. To many, a stranger with a gun is not something they want at their wedding.....or their house of worship. So they asked you to leave and you did. Who called the cops doesn't matter. The reason they called was your fault. The little lady who invited you has a right to be mad....you embarrassed her and probably did not help her business relationship with the groom's mother. To the bride, her wedding day is supposed to be remembered for how beautiful her dress was or how fancy the reception was. Instead everyone will remember the guy with the gun that disrupted her day. It was an unfortunate series of events, initiated because of a little inexperience and lack of attention to detail.

Quote:
I did not think it would have been THAT big of a deal for someone carrying at a wedding.

My thoughts are, should CCW'ers be so afraid of being "made out" that we have to be OCD about carrying a firearm?
I think you now know the answer. Lesson learned. As others have said, you're lucky you aren't in a state where what you did could be determined to be illegal.
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Old March 18, 2013, 12:57 AM   #39
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Jacket rode up over holster at a Wedding, escorted out by five police officers

This is one reason I won't go to a wedding unless I or my wife is a close relative or friend of the bride or groom. A lot of stress floats around and reasonable people become unreasonable. Who invites a business associate to someone else's wedding?
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Old March 18, 2013, 07:01 AM   #40
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Work on your CC, try it out in the mirror, maybe put a chair down and sit up and down with different outfits and see if your holster shifts or if your shirt rides up. Do this for a couple of hours and this will tell you a lot about the weaknesses of your current carry combo.

If you think the holster is the problem, try a couple of others.

I agree you are lucky, weddings are very emotional places. I still can't believe someone called the cops on you, thats just insanity.

If your lady friend won't talk to you again so be it, there are lots of fish in the sea. It is VERY important when you meet someone special they are like minded in some key areas. I am lucky that my wife loves to shoot, I read too many of these "My Wife/GF Won't let me own a gun or carry" threads.

Good luck
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Old March 18, 2013, 07:56 AM   #41
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5 cops - did they over react? Here in Indy they use that many for a simple traffic stop. They travel in packs. If they had a man with a gun call there would have been twice that many, or more.
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Old March 18, 2013, 08:57 AM   #42
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The whole idea about gun control is to marginalize anyone who owns or carries, the gun is evil ready to jump out at any time and kill, media, public schools have taken this tactic for years, sadly it works.

Lose the girl find someone with similar ideas, you did nothing wrong other then a simple mistake see it as such and move on we're living in a new modern world of little common sense.
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Old March 18, 2013, 10:16 AM   #43
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Sounds like a bad deal all around and an unfortunate one as well.

I agree that a good moral to the story is to check, check, visually check your concealment.
An even better moral to the story, that I haven't seen mentioned, may be to get a shoulder rig for use with formal wear.
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Old March 18, 2013, 11:45 AM   #44
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I often wonder what will happen if the right person just happens to notice that I have a weapon in my possession at times myself. I obviously never flash anything or purposely let it be known but you never know when someone could notice and go off the deep end about it.
A good example was just the other day when I reached for my cell phone at my daughter's track meet and I just wondered what would happen if one of the overdramatic mothers noticed a weapon tucked away. I could just about promise ya that they would not consider that it was there for my child's, as well as their child's protection.
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Old March 18, 2013, 11:58 AM   #45
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I can tell you what almost always happens.

They will almost never come talk to you about it, they will usually just call the cops straight away. As soon as they see you are armed they get all freaky, it sticks in their mind, they start to imagine every terrible scenario and it only takes about 3 to 5 minutes and they have decided that the best safe thing to do is call the cops and get them to sort it out. But they will almost never come talk to you first in a reasonable manner.
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Old March 18, 2013, 12:12 PM   #46
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I can tell you that the few times I've carried openly, no one cared. Maybe it's because I'm a clean-cut, well-dressed middle-age white dude, but it's just never been a big deal. No drama or hysterics from anyone else, no "man with a gun" phone calls to the police - nothing.

Maybe it would have been different if I had a gold tooth and a Glock shoved into my waistband; I don't know. But I've simply never met the types of "nervous Nellies" I keep hearing about here.
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Old March 18, 2013, 12:34 PM   #47
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A good example was just the other day when I reached for my cell phone at my daughter's track meet and I just wondered what would happen if one of the overdramatic mothers noticed a weapon tucked away.
I hope it wasn't a school track meet. Having been a high school hockey coach and ref, anyplace a school activity is being held, even if off school property and on public property, is considered "school grounds" during the event and the rules that apply for school grounds apply. This includes CWC.

Quote:
I can tell you that the few times I've carried openly, no one cared. Maybe it's because I'm a clean-cut, well-dressed middle-age white dude, but it's just never been a big deal.
It may also be that you openly carried in a state in which open carry is legal. Try it in a state where open carry is not legal. Try to obviously hide it when you see folks are looking, and do it someplace where a large group of people have assembled.


Quote:
Lose the girl find someone with similar ideas, you did nothing wrong other then a simple mistake see it as such and move on we're living in a new modern world of little common sense.
The girl may already be lost. What the OP did may seem like a simple mistake to you, but to her it may be a sign he is not the responsible person she thought he was. She may also cool down if the Groom's mother, her work associate, gets over it. Many times tho, being asked to go to a wedding with someone is a matter of convenience, not wanting to sit alone and not knowing anyone else there. It's not always about showing off a new boyfriend/girlfriend. The lack of common sense here did not start with the girl. If this is really the "deal breaker" on this relationship, then it was meant to be.
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Old March 18, 2013, 12:50 PM   #48
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The whole idea about gun control is to marginalize anyone who owns or carries, the gun is evil ready to jump out at any time and kill, media, public schools have taken this tactic for years, sadly it works.

Lose the girl find someone with similar ideas, you did nothing wrong other then a simple mistake see it as such and move on we're living in a new modern world of little common sense.
Actually if it were my wedding, I'd have had you escorted out as well, by others who were armed. If they don't know you, you're a threat. But like other's have noted, if I didn't know you, you wouldn't have been invited in the first place.

As noted, concealed means concealed. You messed up, move on and don't worry about. Look on the bright side, maybe this means less weddings for you to be dragged to. I'd count that as a win myself

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Old March 18, 2013, 02:09 PM   #49
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The wedding was a formal one,
Her daddy had a white shotgun.
Your left right.

Step off lively, you dodged a bullet. You might have hurt your girlfriend's networking, definitely not good for business. It's best to sort out their priorities before committing, anyway.
C'est la vie.
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Old March 18, 2013, 02:44 PM   #50
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To Scott: maybe you're right, and if it helps I'm also a 40 year old clean cut white guy with a family. I also work for the federal govt (dept of defense) with security clearances so I must keep a clean record. But the average soccer mom doesn't know or even care what I do for a living. Most of ya'll know exactly the type of person I'm referring to when I mentioned the overdramatic moms.


Oh, and to Mr. Buck. For one, this was not a school related event. But on another note, I'm not sure what state you live in but the rules in Georgia for concealed carry on school properties or events are kind of a gray area. But that's for another thread all together.
I'm also not the kind of person that feels like I have to carry EVERY WHERE I go either.

Last edited by Chris Van; March 18, 2013 at 03:26 PM.
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