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Old March 9, 2013, 11:09 PM   #1
ammo.crafter
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1911 slide locking

My Colt 80 series Government model (stainless) slide does not retract fully; it jams and cannot move forward.

Tapping the muzzle end of the barrel down releases the slide moves forward.

What the heck is this about?

The gun has at least 300,000 rounds through it and is usually extremely accurate.
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Old March 10, 2013, 01:18 AM   #2
4V50 Gary
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Are we talking about one or two problems?

You say it does not retract. Are you saying that the slide doesn't go fully back?

It doesn't go forward into battery either. Clean it thoroughly. Make sure the rails are clean, the lugs are clean, the slide is clean and the recoil spring, plunger and bushing are clean. Make sure the barrel and its chamber are clean. Make sure the ejector is clean too. Is the link swinging freely?

What type of ammo? Some ammo can be very dirty or sluggish (not enough energy).

How about the magazines? What condition are they? Bad magazines lead to feeding problems.
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Old March 10, 2013, 03:37 AM   #3
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Does it have a recoil buffer in it that hasn't been replaced lately? Original spring & guide?
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Old March 10, 2013, 05:49 AM   #4
ammo.crafter
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1911

Gun locks even when slide is manually retracted. Not a dirt question as weapon is very clean. The buffer is new and lug moves freely.
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Old March 10, 2013, 06:35 AM   #5
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That's a lot of rounds ! I'd take a careful look for burrs from the long term hammering of that many rounds.
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Old March 10, 2013, 09:39 AM   #6
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I'd be looking (and feeling) for signs of battering in the locking lug surfaces. Second guessing isn't always easy without examining it in person.
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Old March 10, 2013, 12:04 PM   #7
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Can the slide go back far enough so the gun can be disassembled? If so that would be where I would start. Can't tell you how many problem I've solved by just taking something apart and putting it back together, having no idea why but they seem to work afterwards. Also gives you a chance to examine all the parts. If you can't, at least take off the grips to give you a little bit better look inside.
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Old March 10, 2013, 12:37 PM   #8
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"The gun has at least 300,000 rounds through it and is usually extremely accurate."
Maybe that nature's trying to tell you something.
Seriously though,it should be a process of elimination seeing as it has worked
so well so long,try removing that rubber part which you say is new,the pistol
doesn't need it anyway.Then minus the recoil spring see if you can notice where it binds, I'd be looking also at a damaged slide stop or a bent plunger lever,
is the disconnector moving free?good luck
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Old March 10, 2013, 03:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
I'd be looking (and feeling) for signs of battering in the locking lug surfaces. Second guessing isn't always easy without examining it in person.
The battering of the radial lugs on the barrel and in the slide was my first thoughts on this also, along with this I would look for lower barrel lug seperation or stretching of the barrel link.

Again without having the gun in hand there's many things that can contribute to this, as was stated it's hard to diagnose everything without seeing the gun.

You might check to see if the slide stop is walking part way out of the gun or the barrel has a bulge in it.

Definitely check your radial lugs on the barrel and in your slide, if you see what appears to be metal shearing ( some call it flanging) you have major problems.

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Old March 10, 2013, 04:20 PM   #10
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If that is 300,000 rounds with the original barrel I think the barrel is about at the end of its useful life and should be replaced.

When was the last time a good 1911 gunsmith had a look at that gun?

Jim
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Old March 11, 2013, 01:12 PM   #11
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Quote:
I would look for lower barrel lug seperation or stretching of the barrel link
I agree with Bob, check out the link. It sounds like the lugs are jamming into the slide. Worn link, IMO.
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Old March 11, 2013, 08:55 PM   #12
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The link letting the lockup get out of time seems like the most likely thing to me, too. 300K is a lot of rounds for one of these guns. Light lead wad loads may not wear the bore out, necessarily, but all the contacting surfaces need inspection. I would expect the link lugs to need weld build-up and refitting and the link and slide stop needing replacement by then. If you've been running it without a buffer, after take-down, look at the front ends of the frame rails. I've seen these peen up and tighten fit at the ends of the slide ways. Deburring with a file will fix that.
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Old March 12, 2013, 07:27 AM   #13
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Locked up

Sounds like somethin' busted. Maybe the link, or maybe the lower lug pulled off the barrel.

Try to get the gun apart and see if anything is obvious.

Free the recoil spring up, but leave the bushing in place. Pull on the slide while pushing down on the barrel hood firmly to see if the slide will move further to the rear. You may even to tap on it with a plastic mallet while you pull.
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Old March 12, 2013, 10:31 PM   #14
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Dissasemble it and show us some pictures!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old March 13, 2013, 09:13 AM   #15
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re:

Quote:
Dissasemble it and show us some pictures!!!!!!!!!!!
He's gotta get the slide to move before he can take it apart.
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Old March 13, 2013, 12:16 PM   #16
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You can still get the recoil spring and slide stop out then use a plastic hammer to finish the job. You don't have to take the slide off to get the frame aparts. I had a dan wesson that locked up after about 6000 rounds it was the link pin shifting and jamming itself into the frame.
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Old March 13, 2013, 03:06 PM   #17
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re:

Quote:
You can still get the recoil spring and slide stop out then use a plastic hammer to finish the job.
Not if the barrel won't drop. The slide won't move far enough to the rear to line the slidestop up with the takedown notch.

Quote:
You don't have to take the slide off to get the frame aparts.I had a dan wesson that locked up after about 6000 rounds it was the link pin shifting and jamming itself into the frame.
And how did you determine that without taking the slide off?
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Last edited by 1911Tuner; March 13, 2013 at 05:38 PM.
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Old March 13, 2013, 06:20 PM   #18
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i hit the slide with a plastic deadblow untill it went where i wanted it to.
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Old March 13, 2013, 07:03 PM   #19
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re:

Quote:
i hit the slide with a plastic deadblow untill it went where i wanted it to.
Okay. I'm just tryin' to wrap my head around all this.

But, if the barrel refuses to drop and allow the slide to pass over it...like the OP is tellin' us...you could beat it with a hammer until the handle broke, and the slide wouldn't go where you wanted it to...which is why we're tryin' to get the barrel to drop so the slide will move.

So, gettin' back to your link pin...

Quote:
You don't have to take the slide off to get the frame aparts.
Once you got the slidestop out...then what?

Did you remove the recoil spring plug, spring, and the bushing and pull the barrel out the end of the slide?
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Old March 13, 2013, 07:21 PM   #20
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This'n'That

As you've probably discovered by now, the only way to determine that the link pin is walking is to remove the barrel, and the only way to remove the barrel is to remove the slide because the recoil spring guide is in the way, and the only way to remove that is to remove the slide, and the only way to remove the slide is to get it back far enough for the slidestop to line up with the takedown notch, and the only way that will happen is to get the barrel to drop far enough to let the slide pass over it unhindered.

Thus my point that the OP first has to get the slide to move far enough to remove the slidestop, and proceed from there.
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Old March 13, 2013, 07:52 PM   #21
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taking the frame apart was a side note not related to my particuler problem.but usefull to see if the disconector was broken bent or jammed.

by removeing the recoil spring tension you allow eather a. the broken pieces of the link to move out of the way or b. allow the pin to work its way out of the grove it jammed itself into.

also worst comes to worst you cut the slide stop to allow the pin portion of the slide stop to be removed.
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Old March 14, 2013, 04:09 PM   #22
polyphemus
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"The buffer is new and lug moves freely"
Mr.Crafter would you please clear the air here?
(a)What lug is this that "moves freely"?
(b)how far does the slide retract before it locks up?
thank you
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Old March 15, 2013, 05:52 AM   #23
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Details! Details!

Still waiting to hear from the OP. He's apparently either fixed the problem...sold the gun...or turned it into scrap with a large hammer.
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Old March 15, 2013, 10:07 AM   #24
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I think maybe what Recoiljunky did was get the slide stop out then just drive the barrel and slide forward off the frame as a unit. That doesn't require unlocking. It would mean scraping one side of the link lug channel between the front ends of the frame rails with the slipped link lug pin, but it would work. I've disassembled a working gun that way before without even taking the recoil spring out. The spring guide just bears against the top front edge of the the link lugs when you do it, though you have to be careful it doesn't let go and fly across the room because the recoil spring is still compressed.

But also, the OP's gun isn't stuck. He says if he taps on the barrel muzzle it releases the stuck slide forward. That's what made me think of the peened up rail ends.
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Old March 15, 2013, 10:31 AM   #25
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re:

Quote:
I think maybe what Recoiljunky did was get the slide stop out then just drive the barrel and slide forward off the frame as a unit. That doesn't require unlocking.
It requires the barrel to drop in order to get the slide far enough aft to align the stop with the takedown notch unless the slidestop arm is drilled off. If the barrel doesn't drop and disengage the upper lugs, the slide won't move more than a quarter-inch.


Quote:
But also, the OP's gun isn't stuck. He says if he taps on the barrel muzzle it releases the stuck slide forward.
If the barrel is getting wedged between the frame and the slide, tapping down at the muzzle can drop the barrel just a bit and relieve the bind. I had the same thing happen with a NRM Colt that pulled the lower lug partway off the barrel. I had to tap on the barrel hood, then move the slide a 16th inch...lather/rinse/repeat until I could the the takedown notch in position.
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