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Old March 15, 2013, 07:29 PM   #1
dakota.potts
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Makarov or save for a CZ 85

While looking at a store for a Makarov (which they didn't have) I asked about the CZ pistols and while they didn't have any of the surplus they had a CZ 85 in .40 and he took it out for me. It felt awesome. Probably the nicest feeling gun I have ever put in my hands. I'd get one in 9mm though.

Basically, when I turn 18 I'll be allowed to keep it in my car. I'll be able to carry concealed at 21 , so that's a little bit away. I like the small size of the Makarov because it will be easier for me to conceal, being a very small frame person. However that's 3 and a half years for now and I think the size of the CZ 85 would be OK to keep in the car.

I'd also like to maybe do some competition shooting with it. I know guys use them in competition and I hear great things about the accuracy but I'm aware that the magazine capacity will necessitate a lot more reloads.

All things equal (or if I got them both for free) and I could only choose one, it would probably be the CZ 85. But it is a lot more expensive and I like the fact that the Makarov ammo is far more readily available.

Anyways, I'm going to get hands on a Makarov somehow before choosing but I'll take the comments here into consideration.
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Old March 15, 2013, 08:20 PM   #2
Contrast Man
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I defintely suggest getting your hands on both of them as they are two completely different beasts. The makarov is a single stack blowback operation whereas the 85 is a double stack with more of a Browning type lock up.

As a little personal input, I own a CZ-75B, which is the non ambidexterous version of the 85 and it is easily my favorite semi auto to date (don't own a 1911 yet...). I also own a CZ-82 which is the surplus CZ in 9mak. It too is a great gun, especially for the price, but I like my 75 more.

For your use of just having it be a car gun, its up to you if you wish to keep it in that sense. I can't offer a whole lot of info there being from IL and making sure everytime I put my gun in my car, its properly unloaded and in a case out of arms reach. For concealing, you have a good three years before you'll be eligible for a CCL. By then, you'll have a better idea of what you like and don't like. It'll also give you some time to set aside $20 here and there towards a ccw gun.
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Old March 15, 2013, 09:10 PM   #3
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Just get 'em both. Might as well have a Makarov for the price to performance ratio. The question should really be "Which one first?"
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Old March 15, 2013, 10:48 PM   #4
dakota.potts
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haha that's a fun but expensive way to look at it. Framed that way, which would you buy first?
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Old March 16, 2013, 12:51 AM   #5
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What you buy first all depends on how much you want to spend and how much money you have.
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Old March 16, 2013, 09:33 AM   #6
Walt Sherrill
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Are you sure it's a CZ-85? I've never seen or heard of an 85 in .40.

CZ does make 75s in .40.
and I suspect that's what you saw. Same gun, but without the ambidextrous controls. (That's the main difference between the 75B and 85B.)

I'd snap up an 85(B) or 85 COMBAT, in .40, if I found one. That's a very rare gun!!

If you really want a .40, the 75B in .40 is a fine gun, and worth consideration. Few guns feel better in the hand. Even better, the Kadet Kit (an exceptionally accurate .22 top end) works on the 75 and 85 series guns.
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Old March 16, 2013, 02:26 PM   #7
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I thought it may have been the 75 but it had the wind adjustable rear sights and the body was a white kind of steel color. It was definitely in a .40 and the magazine was a double stack holding either 11 or 13 + 1.

I'd definitely like to get my hands on the standard 75, the 75 compact, and the 85 combat too. I'm hearing that they're supposed to be great guns all around though.
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Old March 16, 2013, 02:33 PM   #8
wild cat mccane
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I loved the idea of a car gun.

Then it got stolen.
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Old March 16, 2013, 03:02 PM   #9
tekarra
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As stated above, they are two very different pistols. If competition shooting is your main goal, then I would recommend the cZ. I am not aware of a cZ 85 in .40 S&W but there may be some out there.
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Old March 16, 2013, 03:17 PM   #10
Walt Sherrill
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Quote:
I thought it may have been the 75 but it had the wind adjustable rear sights and the body was a white kind of steel color. It was definitely in a .40 and the magazine was a double stack holding either 11 or 13 + 1.
Most 85Bs are polycoated blue/black. I've got an 85 Combat in satin nickel. (I don't think I've ever seen a two-tone 85 or 85 Combat, nor one in .40, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.) The standard magazine for those larger 9mm guns are 10 rounders in some states and 16+ in others, or for .40s, 10 and 12, depending on state law.

I don't think I've ever seen a CZ-82 or CZ-83 with adjustable sights; they didn't come that way from the factory. Those guns shoot a somewhat weaker 9x18 round, known as 9mm Makarov. The 9mm CZs shoot 9x19. While these guns aren't small (i.e., not pocket guns), they are much smaller than the full-size CZ-75 or CZ-85 guns.

Further, every click-adjustable sight on a CZ that I've seen was windage only. All of them have rear sights that can be tapped for windage.

It sounds as though you were looking at a CZ-75B in .40; they come with all of the features you described.

The only factory adjustable sights can be click-adjusted for both elevation and windage; that's the same sight that comes on the Kadet Kit.

Last edited by Walt Sherrill; March 16, 2013 at 06:33 PM.
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Old March 16, 2013, 03:33 PM   #11
dakota.potts
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That sounds about right. I'd be looking for one in 9mm Luger, not .40
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Old March 16, 2013, 07:33 PM   #12
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I had a 75bd for 8 years. Skip the Mak if you plan to compete.
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Old March 16, 2013, 09:10 PM   #13
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They fill different niches. Although I love the Makarov, I have to admit that it is limited in its utility. To me, it's a great CCW, but I wouldn't shoot it in a match.
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Old March 16, 2013, 09:58 PM   #14
dakota.potts
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I'm nowhere near good enough to compete but it's a future aspiration of mine. How does the 75 rate as a carry gun to those who have had it?
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Old March 17, 2013, 06:21 AM   #15
Walt Sherrill
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As a carry gun: a little large and heavy, but that applies to about 75% of the guns that are used for carry.

I've gone to something smaller and lighter -- but others don't find size or weight an issue.
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Old March 17, 2013, 07:51 AM   #16
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Makarovs are in short supply. They are no longer being made nor imported. They will always be in demand, so if you buy one now, you can always sell it down the road, and not lose money. You may decide to keep it, as they are wonderful pistols.

The CZ's are great pistols also, but they are currently manufactured, and should be available for a long, long time.
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Old March 17, 2013, 07:53 AM   #17
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I would not let that Mak get away. Great little gun.
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Old March 17, 2013, 03:10 PM   #18
Walt Sherrill
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Makarovs are fine weapons, but for a gun that's going to be - in effect - the only weapon, used for CARRY and HOME DEFENSE and fun at the range, I'd go with the CZ.

(And yes, I've had a bunch of .380s and 9x18s, including Makarovs and the CZ-82, a P3AT, an LCP, and I've shot the P-64. While the Mak and CZ-82 are smaller, they're NOT that small, and they're not that light -- and they don't have the force/power of the 9x19 CZs. If you want a small gun, the Ruger LC9 and Kel-Tec PF9 are also small, and more powerful; they're probably cheaper, too.)

My first Makarov was an East German made by/in Suhl; the second was a Bulgarian. The Bulgarian Mak was almost as nice as the Suhl, which is supposed to be the best of the Maks. and was far less costly.

Get the CZ-75. Having a Makarov just becuase they're increasingly rare is a poor excuse for getting one. If you really want a 9x18 gun, OK -- but not because they'll eventually be hard to find. There'll be enough around for a long time to come so that the won't increase THAT MUCH in value to consider them an investment/collectible. (Sadly, almost any gun you consider worth buying for its potential investment/collectible value is very likely to turn out to be an investment/collectible gun).

Last edited by Walt Sherrill; March 17, 2013 at 03:20 PM.
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Old March 17, 2013, 05:12 PM   #19
dakota.potts
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Wow. Lots of split opinions. Right now I'm giving the edge to the CZ because it just felt like a dream in my hands, had a higher capacity, and is a stronger round. It would however take me longer to get the money for one than a Makarov and that was really what drew me to the Mak in the first place. I may very well end up getting both at some time but the CZ 75 sounds like a better up front investment.
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Old March 17, 2013, 05:16 PM   #20
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If the CZ does feel that good in your hand, buy it. Maks are around and will be around for awhile. I carry a Mak during summer and 9s/40s during winter.

The gold-standard I set for myself when buying a carry pistol is "does it feel good?" I define that as saying "it holds solidly and not jostle between shot/followup shot."

I"m not a fan of keeping an unattended pistol in my car. If your pistol isn't on you, it's not yours.
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Old March 17, 2013, 09:02 PM   #21
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Well, not having a pistol at all because you can't afford a better one is a poor excuse for not having a pistol. The Mak is a solid all around choice for home defense, range, and CCW. The full size CZ-75/85 is a better pistol, better round, etc, but if you have to wait months and months to save for one, your losing practice time, AND the ability to defend yourself until you can afford the CZ.

I'd still recommending getting the Mak, and saving for the CZ. When the time comes to buy the CZ, you can always sell the Mak quickly to get the CZ. It all depends on how much you want a pistol now. You may end up liking the Mak so much you keep it, AND get the CZ.
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Old March 18, 2013, 03:03 PM   #22
dakota.potts
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Well, with my 18th birthday in August I might be able to talk my parents into a nice gift Until then it would largely be a hammer/ range piece for me as in my state a minor can legally own a gun in their parents' house but it has to be completely unloaded and locked in a safe.
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Old March 18, 2013, 04:12 PM   #23
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IMHO a Mak is a good car gun... I had one fill that purpose for a long time.

I wouldn't use a more expensive one than that as a car gun due to theft risk.
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Old March 18, 2013, 11:02 PM   #24
BigJakeJ1s
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Both are excellent guns.

But I agree with CWKahrFan. For a car gun, I'd go with the cheaper Mak.

Andy
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Old March 19, 2013, 08:35 AM   #25
Walt Sherrill
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If the primary use is to be a car gun, then the Mak. If it gets stolen, you're out less dollars.

But, you won't be competing with the Mak, and while it's small enough to carry concealed, it'll still be best to have a proper holster. Given that, the advantages over a CZ-75 are minor, and the 9mm Makarov round (9x18) is less potent than the 9MM (9x19). And you have quite a few less rounds in the magazine.

A gun carried in the car can present problems if your state has concealed carry restrictions. Having a secure place for it in the car is also important -- like a lockable place to keep it when you're not carrying it.

If I were the OP, I'd rethink the "keeping it in the car" part -- it sounds easy but can be the source of a lot of problems, including theft, police concerns, etc.
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