The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 2, 2013, 08:46 AM   #1
Dangerwing
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 9, 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 237
arming the enemy?

I own several weapons that would work well for home defense, but I have a delema. My worry is this: if I store a weapon in a way that gives me easy access when I am home, doesn't that give an intruder equal access if he/she breaks in when I am not home? I would hate to come home from work or the store and find myself looking down the barrel of my own weapon because I walked in on a home invasion. I have no children so that isn't an issue. Right now I keep a 1911 in my bedside table along with my PPK/S that I use for CCW. Any thoughts?
__________________
Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms should be an aisle at Wal-Mart, not a government agency!

Only faithful men teach their wives to shoot.
Dangerwing is offline  
Old May 2, 2013, 08:55 AM   #2
deepcreek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 320
If you have no children you can get creative, holster under the table, behind the door, in the stuffed animal, ?
deepcreek is offline  
Old May 2, 2013, 09:04 AM   #3
Vanya
Staff
 
Join Date: July 7, 2008
Location: Upper midwest
Posts: 3,947
Quote:
My worry is this: if I store a weapon in a way that gives me easy access when I am home, doesn't that give an intruder equal access if he/she breaks in when I am not home?
You're quite right -- leaving weapons where they're accessible to anyone who finds them, whether you're home or not, is a bad idea. The best solution is a simple one: store your guns in a safe, and take one out when you get home. The safest way to have it accessible is to carry a pistol while you're up , and to put it in your nightstand when you go to bed. If you do it this way, the gun is instantly accessible, and you have it under your control.

It's not only intruders who may otherwise have access to your guns: if you have friends who bring their kids when they visit, it's possible that a child might find an unsecured gun. I'd also point you to the thread on the Clackamas mall shooting; that shooter stole the weapon he used from a friend he was visiting. It seems the friend had the gun out, then failed to lock it up before falling asleep.
__________________
"Once the writer in every individual comes to life (and that time is not far off), we are in for an age of universal deafness and lack of understanding."
(Milan Kundera, Book of Laughter and Forgetting, 1980)
Vanya is offline  
Old May 2, 2013, 09:52 AM   #4
Gaerek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 939
Even if you have children, there are several options to keep a gun locked up at night, but still give you quick/easy access.

Here's one for a shot/long gun that I plan on picking up soon:

http://www.shotlock.com/

For handguns, there's about 342 different companies who make quick access handgun safes. I wouldn't trust most of these to long term storage, but for quick access at night, and keeping the kids from accessing while you're asleep, they work well.

As for me, my gun is on my hip from the moment I wake up until the moment I go to sleep. Some call me paranoid, I call it smart. The last place I want a gun when an intruder breaks in is in my safe in another room. The only exceptions to it coming off are when I take a shower, but even then, it's in the bathroom within easy reach.
Gaerek is offline  
Old May 2, 2013, 10:06 AM   #5
doofus47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2010
Location: live in a in a house when i'm not in a tent
Posts: 1,314
"If it's not on you, it's not yours."
I understand your worry. What if you were coming out to your car and someone had their head stuck in the window. You should "Hey, ijiot! Get out of my car!" and the guy stands up and turns around with your revolver...
I often think of this scenario when people tell me that they keep guns in the glove box of their car or truck.

That said, I understand not wanting 8 layers of security between you and your home defender. People who are breaking in to rob you are going to try to get out asap. Try to leave your firearms off the beaten path: mount a holster under a kitchen drawer (no one steals pots and pans). Behind the books in the book case/cds in the cd case. In the laundry room cabinet in an empty box of laundry detergent. If you put one in the fridge, I'd put it in an empty 18-egg box or empty Folger's can or something opaque (although I've heard more than once of robbers getting the munchies and going for the fridge..)

Just remember to clean up if friends bring their kids over.
__________________
I'm right about the metric system 3/4 of the time.
doofus47 is offline  
Old May 2, 2013, 10:19 AM   #6
Gaerek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 939
Quote:
That said, I understand not wanting 8 layers of security between you and your home defender. People who are breaking in to rob you are going to try to get out asap. Try to leave your firearms off the beaten path: mount a holster under a kitchen drawer (no one steals pots and pans). Behind the books in the book case/cds in the cd case. In the laundry room cabinet in an empty box of laundry detergent. If you put one in the fridge, I'd put it in an empty 18-egg box or empty Folger's can or something opaque (although I've heard more than once of robbers getting the munchies and going for the fridge..)

Just remember to clean up if friends bring their kids over.
Or...

Wear your gun in the house?

Those ideas seem like a lot of work, and forgetting to put a gun away, or whatever can have some pretty bad consequences. Not to mention, they can still be found by thieves. Do you really think people who are good at robbery don't know your favorite hiding places? I used to watch a show called "To Catch a Thief" before it was cancelled. I think it was on Discovery Channel. Basically, they had a professional thief (since retired) break into someone's house (with their permission, and with them watching on CCTV in a van outside) and steal as much as possible in the shortest amount of time. You'd be absolutely amazed at how much loot they could get in 5-10 minutes. By the way, some of the hiding places that have been suggested in this thread were places this thief made a B-Line for...because he's not dumb and he knows where people hide things they don't want found.

It amazes me that people will hide 5 guns in various areas of the house because they always want one near, but as soon as you suggest just wearing it in the house, they balk. "What? That's just paranoid!" (as if hiding guns in oven mitts, coffee cans, hollowed out books, etc, isn't...). I understand that carrying a gun isn't always practical in the house. But as long as you're wearing pants (any kind of pants, really), there are holsters that will work. I have a Remora holster for my LCR that works very well, even with sweat pants, or shorts with an elastic band. It's my "lazy" holster.

Basically, if you want to have a gun nearby in the house, and not have to worry about it not being accessible to someone who isn't you, there is no better solution than wearing the gun.
Gaerek is offline  
Old May 2, 2013, 10:58 AM   #7
wayneinFL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2004
Posts: 1,935
You beat me to it. Why hide guns all over the house? You never have it closer than on your body.

I have a J frame Smith in my pocket. It's been there since I woke up this morning, and it will be there until I go to bed tonight.
wayneinFL is offline  
Old May 2, 2013, 01:08 PM   #8
lcpiper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2011
Posts: 1,405
It gets trickier with folks who can't wear their guns to work or leave them in their cars while at work. Even more so for people who work on say, a military base.

For us, carrying all the time doesn't work and even carrying part time means that sooner or later, you'll want to go on base and be stuck wondering what to do with your gun. People like us are afraid we will forget we have it on and get caught at the gate or worse, while pushing a cart in the commissary.

For us, carrying all time is not possible, and carrying part time is risky. So carrying all the time even at home still feels risky.
__________________
Colt M1911, AR-15 | S&W Model 19, Model 27| SIG P238 | Berreta 85B Cheetah | Ruger Blackhawk .357MAG, Bearcat "Shopkeeper" .22LR| Remington Marine Magnum SP 12GA., Model 700 SPS .223
lcpiper is offline  
Old May 2, 2013, 01:28 PM   #9
southjk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2012
Location: Memphis
Posts: 425
I think the solution for the OP is a small safe. Not to use while he is asleep or home but for when he leaves the house. He has no children so no need to keep guns locked up when he is home. So, just keep them locked up when you go out and when you get home take one out or unlock the safe.
southjk is offline  
Old May 2, 2013, 01:37 PM   #10
Kimio
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2011
Location: Utah
Posts: 912
What about those bio-metric safes, the ones that need your finger/handprint before it opens?

I don't know if they sell those for safes that can store rifles, but could that be a solution as well?
Kimio is offline  
Old May 2, 2013, 02:02 PM   #11
manta49
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2011
Location: N Ireland. UK.
Posts: 1,297
Quote:
It's not only intruders who may otherwise have access to your guns: if you have friends who bring their kids when they visit, it's possible that a child might find an unsecured gun
Good point I think firearms should be locked away at all times unless in use. If someone is using it for self defence they can keep it on their person or close to hand. A example of what can happen when firearms are not kept securely especially with children around. This is in the UK press today and they are using the incident to push their anti gun views. Caroline Starks: Brother, 5, accidentally shoots dead sister, 2, with ...


A toddler in America was accidentally shot dead by her five-year-old brother who had been given the gun as a birthday present.

Little Caroline Starks was killed when the boy fired the .22 calibre rifle he had been given last year at her.
manta49 is offline  
Old May 2, 2013, 02:09 PM   #12
Gaerek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 939
Quote:
It gets trickier with folks who can't wear their guns to work or leave them in their cars while at work. Even more so for people who work on say, a military base.

For us, carrying all the time doesn't work and even carrying part time means that sooner or later, you'll want to go on base and be stuck wondering what to do with your gun. People like us are afraid we will forget we have it on and get caught at the gate or worse, while pushing a cart in the commissary.

For us, carrying all time is not possible, and carrying part time is risky. So carrying all the time even at home still feels risky.
I totally get this. My father in law is a retired SMSgt. in the Air Force. He works off base and isn't allowed to carry at work, but can keep it in the car. The problem is, he regularly goes to the BX or Commissary at lunch, or after work on base, and he can't even have a gun in his car if he does that. So instead, he just leaves it at home. But, the first thing he does when he gets home is straps his gun on.

I don't think your scenario minimizes my point of view, however. Just because you can't carry on base isn't a reason not to have a gun on at home. If you want a gun nearby at all times at home, your best bet is still to carry it with you. Everything else is a big compromise, either in ease of access for you, or security of the gun.
Gaerek is offline  
Old May 2, 2013, 02:18 PM   #13
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,795
We have several lock-boxes around the house. They can be opened using a key-touch combination code. They are mechanical so don't rely on power or batteries. They can be quickly opened without looking. They are not easily visible but are easily accessible if one knows that they are there. They are bolted down and thus not readily moveable. Each contains a loaded gun, extra ammunition and a Surefire flashlight. They weren't terribly expensive.

In this way, we have a loaded gun easily and quickly accessible to either my wife or me wherever we might be in the house. But the gun is not readily accessible to anyone else.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old May 2, 2013, 03:59 PM   #14
Dalek
Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2013
Posts: 64
OK... Before I go on, I am not suggesting anyone do anything. I am simply sharing how I and those I know, handle the matter of keeping a firearm handy and, away from unauthorized hands at the same time. I hope folks here will take it as such.

First, of course I do have gun safes that are substantial and well hidden. This is where the majority of my toys live.

In my own personal case, I have always tried to be "smart" about such issues. Smarter than the criminal at least. We should keep in mind that, it is pretty rare that our home is going to be hit by some accomplished cat burglar from some romantic novel or movie. More often than not, it is some local crack-head or neighbor kid being cute.

Ask the question... How did Houdini manage to make things vanish, seemingly into thin air? Answer, misdirection. If you think about the average safe, sitting out in the open, it screams "Oh look! Goodies inside". For this reason, I actually own a number of safes that are locked and bolted in various places. Inside of them... Well, one has some Pokemon figures that my kids no longer care for and others have similar junk of no value. However, the average person breaking in will only see a safe and, rushed for time (such folks tend to be in a hurry, go figure), they will focus in on that and leave most other things alone. While I might miss the Pokemon figurines due to some sentimental value, I could get over it.

Again, misdirection. If you come into my home, you will see the typical examples of side-by shotguns, break open revolvers and even a few "newer" bits of firearms history on display. Each and everyone of them, being basically worthless and, unsafe to shoot when I got them, has been "dewated". Actions welded, internals removed and barrels plugged. However, to the average crack-head or kid, these are a "Bingo" moment. Naturally, in keeping with the law, any available serial numbers are noted and pics of each display item are saved.

All this as those firearms that could and would serve for self preservation are well hidden in plain, undesirable items such as one might find in the average home. Couches, radios, planters and the like have no value to the crack-head or local kid. Baseboard trim is not likely to fetch much at the local pawn shop. Just a few ideas, right there.

Cars, being a petrol head and shade-tree mechanic, are always fun. Again, a safe or lock box, however well hidden under normal conditions is still subject to Murphy's Law. Once spotted, as you must assume it will be, it is a huge draw to the baddie. However, if you look at your car or truck, be it new or old, you will notice how much trim it has and, if you check behind that trim, you will discover that most of it covers..well..nothing. In my own vehicles, since I drive older GM muscle cars, these vacant spaces are numerous and used to great effect. In an emergency, a handgun (typically a revolver) is ready to serve in any vehicle I own but, unless you are prepared to basically strip my car down to the bare metal, you are not apt to find it.

Just my 2 Cents.
Dalek is offline  
Old May 3, 2013, 09:58 AM   #15
HBoswell
Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 2010
Posts: 24
You might look into getting one of these, they look nice and don't have a combo lock to deal with-

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c...aspx?a=1037711
HBoswell is offline  
Old May 3, 2013, 10:57 AM   #16
Tucker 1371
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2008
Location: East TN
Posts: 2,017
Had a sobering moment the other day. I was gone for drill and my roommate brought two lady friends home with him. They said they needed to change and he pointed them to his room but they found mine instead. 1911 was laying condition 1 on my dresser and a 12g sitting cond. 3 in the corner. They messed with a few things but thankfully none of the guns. Since they were College girls I assume the guns didn't interest them as much as my Jack Daniels bandanna still covered in Afghan dust, but if it had been a drunk guy I don't even want to think about what could have happened. I don't have room for a safe but for the time being my door stays locked while I'm away. Lesson learned.
__________________
NCO of Marines, 3rd Award Expert Rifle, 236 KD Range
D Co, 4th CEB, Engineers UP!! OEF 21JUN-20SEP2011
REV. 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Tucker 1371 is offline  
Old May 3, 2013, 11:47 AM   #17
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,478
I don't worry about it. My guns are in my safe,

EXCEPT my pocket revolver. It's in my pocket, whether I'm home, or gone. If I'm in bed, its in my pants pocket hanging on the bed post, you have to crawl over me to get to it.......I'm a light sleeper,

I don't worry one bit about letting someone having access to my guns that aren't suppose to.
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old May 3, 2013, 11:59 AM   #18
FAS1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 2010
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 266
I always pocket carry a P3AT around the house. My dedicated HD handgun is in one of my handgun safes mounted to my bed frame right next to my pillow. You can have it quickly and still have it reasonably secured. There are lots of options for you out there to find something that works for YOU.
__________________
Glenn

FAS1 SAFE, LLC
FAS1 is offline  
Old May 3, 2013, 12:02 PM   #19
deepcreek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 320
We had some gusts with a 3yr old come visit so we went through and tried to childproof the house. I thought we did a good job until the wife said she move some stuff from the top of the dresser he was getting into them I realized my auto assist knife that is sharp enough to shave with was in the drawer right below the stuff. Would not make a good toy for a 3yr old.
deepcreek is offline  
Old May 3, 2013, 05:38 PM   #20
gstone
Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2011
Location: North Central Texas
Posts: 15
arming the enemy

While serving in the Marines I carried a loaded handgun on my hip 8 hours a day as did other Marines while on duty. We were trusted with protecting the ammo storage/ICMB missile component supply base from intruders. We passed a top secret security background check just to be stationed there. BUT we could not wear our personal handguns on or off base. I was not able to understand the logic of trusting us for 8 hours a day with firearms but not the remainder of the day.
__________________
Gstone
gstone is offline  
Old May 3, 2013, 06:20 PM   #21
Dalek
Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2013
Posts: 64
First and foremost, thank you, gstone for your service!

I have had that very matter come up when asked about the Ft. Hood attack. Those not in the know seem to think that soldiers (let alone others) are allowed to openly carry loaded firearms, all over a military base. Sort of like F Troop on TV, you know.

Explaining to them that many areas on any base are gun free zones, aside from M.P.'s and the like, is normally met with blank stares of disbelief. Going on to mention that on some bases I knew, one was not even allowed to keep private firearms in their On Base housing was even more baffling for them.
Dalek is offline  
Old May 3, 2013, 10:52 PM   #22
doofus47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2010
Location: live in a in a house when i'm not in a tent
Posts: 1,314
Gaerek:
Quote:
Or...

Wear your gun in the house?
Curse you, voice of reason!!!!

lol. Yeah, there's the simple solution, too...
__________________
I'm right about the metric system 3/4 of the time.
doofus47 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13328 seconds with 9 queries