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Old March 14, 2013, 03:19 PM   #1
iraiam
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Colorado Ballot Measures Coming

An article in the Denver Post today says paperwork has been filed to begin the process for repealing HB13-1224 through ballot initiatives. The article says 2 different groups filed paperwork for similar ballot initiatives, both targeting the soon to be law restricting magazine capacity.

Once it gets to the signature collection stage, I am absolutely confident there will be more than enough signatures to get it on the ballot, the results of a sate wide ballot initiative will also tell me personally if I need to just give up on Colorado and move elsewhere.
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Old March 14, 2013, 04:22 PM   #2
press1280
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That's good. How long does that whole process take?
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Old March 14, 2013, 10:14 PM   #3
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please post the links/info when they become available.

This isn't over.
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Old March 14, 2013, 10:30 PM   #4
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I wonder if it might survive a ballot initiative. The citizens of Colorado voted the politicians who passed this into office. It would take a major and widespread about-face in opinion for such an initiative to be successful.
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Old March 15, 2013, 12:32 AM   #5
BarryLee
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Quote:
The citizens of Colorado voted the politicians who passed this into office.
Yes, I was thinking the exact same thing. I suppose it is possible that these folks rode into office on Mr. Obama’s coat tails and maybe these recent acts will wake up freedom loving Coloradoans.
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Old March 15, 2013, 08:29 AM   #6
Will Beararms
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Based upon all the other things going on in Colorado, my bet is a recall on current gun confiscation laws will happen the morning I wake up and see a full head of hair in the mirror. If you want liberty, move to a free state. Don't expect a change in Colorado if these laws are enacted.
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Last edited by Vanya; March 15, 2013 at 10:56 AM. Reason: let's not do invective: People's Republic," etc.
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Old March 15, 2013, 08:46 AM   #7
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
The citizens of Colorado voted the politicians who passed this into office. It would take a major and widespread about-face in opinion for such an initiative to be successful.
True, but at the time, gun control was not a front-burner issue. It probably wasn't even a back-burner issue in CO.
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Old March 15, 2013, 09:00 AM   #8
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Problem in Colorado is getting the more conservative citizens off their duffs to vote. Turn out for the last election was pretty light at around 38% for Republicans and 36% for Democrats, the bad news was the 26 or so % of unaffiliated voters, the majority of who voted Democrat.
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Old March 15, 2013, 10:08 AM   #9
Will Beararms
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That's what happens when there is no conservative option. Many are sick of choosing the lesser of two evils. Over three million Republicans did not vote in 2012. They're sick of liberals and moderates masquerading as conservatives. They've been patient for almost 20 years.

I "gah-Ron-tee" you the Democrats had Gum Confiscation as a front burner item whether they said so or not in the election. This is about confiscation; not control.
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Old March 15, 2013, 10:13 AM   #10
iraiam
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I'm not saying it would be repealed, but there are only a limited few ways that it can be removed once it's on the books.

1 - Ballot initiative
2- Court striking it down
3- Voting anti-gun politicians out, and their replacements repealing it.

At this point there is going to be an attempt at all 3, it's either that or lay down and take it like a good little citizen, No Thanks.

Gun control has been decidedly missing from all of these Democrats election campaigns, now they bet the farm on it.

Beyond that, I am making long term plans to move out of Colorado, unfortunately, it will probably take me more than a year to do so, due to my current situation.
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Last edited by Vanya; March 15, 2013 at 10:59 AM. Reason: invective.
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Old March 15, 2013, 10:58 AM   #11
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The topic of the thread is repeal measures. No more party politics, please.
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Old March 15, 2013, 11:29 AM   #12
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The fact that gun-control issues didn't come up as a ballot issue tells me that the faction that would like to see firearms controlled didn't think that would pass majority muster.


There will be a super-media blitz from out of state to fight a ballot initiative, but screw 'em. Make em spend it all. I say leave off the sb195 (no ccl w/out some face to face training) and the idea of repealing useless laws seems pretty "common sense." Fighting a misinformation blizzard about sb195 to explain why people should be able to get a ccw w/out ever having to see an instructor in person is going to be an uphill battle and will lose votes in my opinion. Personally, I like the idea of CCW training having some face to face portion. If you care enough, you'll show up.
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Old March 15, 2013, 11:34 AM   #13
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Or, amend sb195 so that the state subsidizes mandatory training for low-income applicants.

EDIT: I would just love to see the antis forced to explain why poor people should face excessive hurdles in getting a permit.
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Old March 15, 2013, 02:49 PM   #14
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A ballot could do it but we need to drive it in every way possible. educate your friends, neighbors, whoever regardless if they own guns or not.
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Old March 16, 2013, 10:00 AM   #15
Will Beararms
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Part of me says if the populace of a given state votes in people who purpose to confiscate guns and you desire to legally own guns, it's time to contact a head hunter and a realtor versus trying repeals.

As some states work to confiscate guns at a fevered pitch, other states are bolstering their laws to protect second amendment rights at a fevered pitch.

Thank God we have options.

Good luck to those who try the repeal route.
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Old March 16, 2013, 10:58 AM   #16
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Re: Colorado Ballot Measures Coming

If the people who were voted in did not run on an anti-gun platform, then a ballot initiative could stand a good chance of passing. Most people do not consider a candidate's gun stance unless it's highlighted.
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Old March 16, 2013, 12:13 PM   #17
rajbcpa
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I live in NY. Get used to more gun control in colorado.

Your only hope now is that the courts will overturn the law but this is a long shot and it will take at least 5 years or more.

My NY house is for sale and I will move to Tenn.

Gun ownership in the USA is now only 34% and declining. Gun grabbers are in the majority and they will continue to stomp on the 2nd amendment.

The fight to keep our guns and ammo is being lost at the state level. This now includes very serious losses in NY, CT, NJ, MN, Calf., Mass., and others....
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Old March 16, 2013, 12:43 PM   #18
Ralgha
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Quote:
Gun grabbers are in the majority and they will continue to stomp on the 2nd amendment.
I don't agree. Most people are pretty much indifferent to guns and don't really care. Those that bother to vote will be swayed by the arguments set forth by the pro and anti sides. Make sure your arguments are good.
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Old March 16, 2013, 12:51 PM   #19
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Gun ownership in the USA is now only 34% and declining.
Don't use the numbers thrown out by the anti groups. I'm highly suspicious of that number. I live in a very rural area but our local stores have been sold out of guns and ammo since Dec. Somebody is buying all that stuff and it can't all be former gun owners. Any trip to a gun store lets you quietly listen to the crowd. And there are lots of people out there saying, "Let's buy them before they ban them." Any kind of direct empirical observation should tell us that the number of gun owners is going up. Just like I must conclude it did in 2008.

It's the old Occam's razor. Which is more likely to be true, which is the simpler answer? The number of gun owners is going down or the number of gun owners responding truthfully to poll takers is going down? If your phone rang and somebody asked you if you owned guns, what would you say? If somebody with a clipboard approached you at the mall and asked you if you owned guns, what would you say? I know my local doctor's office tried to ask me on a form if I owned guns..... I wrote, "None of your damn business" right on the page.

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Old March 16, 2013, 01:35 PM   #20
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^Everybody I know at work is aware that I'm a "gun guy". I have personally convinced/helped/educated no less than 6 military officers to purchase their first guns and get their CCW's within the past 2 months. These are guys (and one bad-ass helo-pilot chick) who really didn't care one way or another about owning a gun until the Dem/Lib machine made it obvious they were going to try and stomp civilian ownership into the ground.

Although online/LGS places are out of stock, every gunshow in town over the past few months has had "stocked-as-usual" tables ableit at about 15% higher prices. Even G19 Gen4's for under $600... yes, seems criminal to charge that much, I know... but they're available at the shows. All my friends did their homework with my help and got exactly the firearms they wanted. They all got their CCW's, and 2 of them are almost carrying as much as I do.

Bottom line, I pay as much attention as I possibly can to all things "gun", particularly law and politics... and I would name my next kid Barack if it was true that there are fewer gun owners in this country now than there were EVEN YESTERDAY, let alone a few months or years ago. Declining ownership my ass.
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Old March 16, 2013, 03:37 PM   #21
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Considering that at the same time distrust in govt is at at all time high I'd say it's heavily correlated with the alleged all-time low in gun ownership.

The guys at the range on either side of me yesterday were trading stories of their neighbors' new first-time gun purchases.

The low-ownership survey is being used as propaganda.
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Old March 16, 2013, 04:12 PM   #22
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I was completely floored by my former state doing this crap.
In Colorado, at least in the old days, it was very common to find this NOT being a Dem vs Rep issue and it can't have changed completely to that yet. There are a lot of rural folks who vote Democrat in Colorado and would skin their state Reps or Senators alive for this stuff. Likewise there were Republicans elected from city area's who couldn't care less.
When the Mods talk about not going down the Rep vs Dem road they were 100% right when it came to describing Colorado at least.
I really think a lot of elected officials didn't realize just how strongly their constituents feel about this stuff, and they are going to get an unpleasant surprise come re-election time. It wouldn't surprise me to see the silent majority help them start to understand this by passing a ballot measure at all.
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Old March 16, 2013, 07:09 PM   #23
hermannr
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Quote:
Gun ownership in the USA is now only 34% and declining. Gun grabbers are in the majority and they will continue to stomp on the 2nd amendment.
Where did you get that grab bag of misinformation? The Brady Bunch?

They would like you to believe that, but it is the same as everything the Bradiys put out...misinformation.

Last national poll on gun ownership I saw said 48% yes they own at least 1 firearm, 10% would not answer (you know that is also a yes) and 42% no.

Also, just because 42% may not own a firearm, that does not mean they would not support the constitution.

IMHO: if it goes to a vote in CO, those laws will be repealed by the smame margin that the Denver Post poll gave...by about 68% for repeal.
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Old March 16, 2013, 07:50 PM   #24
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I spent some time after school doing social science research data handling. It involved a lot of modeling and system design... I will NEVER do that stuff again.

Even with the best study including clearly asked and isolated questions repeated multiply and double blind sampled, then repeated multiple times reapplication of the model in different demographics. You still have the required assumption of honest answers and agreed definitions. The best stochastic modeling can't fix this. You may be able to spot an "open end" in the design but getting a demonstrably "true" result is elusive.

Example: "Are you a man" ( )Yes ( )No

An adult citizen may answer for reasons outside of the intended frame of the question. An adult male may feel ashamed of himself for snapping at his kids in the morning so he might be thinking "No, I'm not a Man, I'm a jerk!" and answer "No" on the question. Or an adult woman who just threw her deadbeat boyfriend out may be thinking "I'm more of a man than that bum!" and check "Yes."

Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics!


It is my best guess that people who own guns have real world reason to not discuss it with pollsters or outright skew the sample (lie.) The result is drastic under reporting.
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Old March 16, 2013, 08:05 PM   #25
scrubcedar
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"How many people are going to take a survey where they admit to owning a gun?

Perhaps people these days simply are more conscious of protecting their privacy"

Aaaand we have a winner Ladies and Gentleman!

This study relies on self reporting of behavior rather than facts and investigation.
All you are measuring is peoples attitudes toward the revealing of the fact that they own guns.
You have not seen or counted any of physical objects in question, therefore it is useless as an empirical study of ownership, and only useful as a study in attitude toward the revealing of gun ownership.


This is a re-post from this http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=519250 thread.
The first part is a quote from a remark "Come an take it" made the second part is mine.
If you look at post's 8 & 9 on that thread about the study we are talking about you will see the studies obvious flaws and weaknesses.
It's skilled propaganda put together by admitted anti-gun activists.
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