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Old March 18, 2013, 04:31 PM   #1
rick bruton
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m1 garand

im told that you should not shoot modern 30-06 ammo in an m1 garand, anyone have any knowledge regarding this?
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Old March 18, 2013, 04:39 PM   #2
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M1 garands require cartridges loaded with powder with a specific burn rate. most factory hunting ammo does not have the proper burn rates so the gas pressures can damage the op rod during cycling. most people that hunt with M1s reload for it.

you can buy some M1 match ammo, pull the bullets and replace them with hunting bullets of the same weight.
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Old March 18, 2013, 04:50 PM   #3
Orlando
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Use Surplus M2Ball , modern commercial ammo that is specifically made for the M1 Garand (Hornady and Federal both make Garand specific ammo)or install a adjustable gas screw and shoot commercial ammo of your choice
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Old March 18, 2013, 11:06 PM   #4
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That's your best route...get an adjustable gas plug that allows the use of commercial ammo. They run about $40.
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Old March 19, 2013, 07:20 AM   #5
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As long as the ammo's loaded with powder with burn rates in the IMR3031 to IMR4320 range, it's just fine. Hundreds of thousands rounds of commercial .30-06 ammo's been fired in Garands over the years. But it's powder met this criteria.
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Old March 19, 2013, 07:58 AM   #6
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Somewhere there was a list of Garand-safe commercial ammo floating around. I'm pretty sure plain old Remington 150 grain Core Lokt was on that list.
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Old March 19, 2013, 08:15 PM   #7
Art Eatman
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4895 powder in the GI load gives about 2,000 psi at the gas port. Slower-burn powders can be higher, putting excessive force on the operating rod--which can bend it.

The adjustable port takes care of this problem, when properly adjusted per the instructions.
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Old March 19, 2013, 09:06 PM   #8
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But please note that bending the op rod is the worst thing that can happen and even that has more effect on accuracy than on reliability or safety.

Several years ago, some ammo made for MGs was released by DCM and used in M1 rifles with the result that some op rods were bent.

A four square loony immediately took to the internet to claim that the op rods had broken, and that hundreds of shooters had died with pieces of op rod in their heads. By the time he got done with his silly nonsense, he was claiming that tens of thousands of GI's in Vietnam had been killed by their own M1s,* that there was a big cover-up by the evil Republican administration (George H.W. Bush, IIRC) that the fields of Vietnam were littered with dead bodies with op rods protruding from their foreheads, that he had personally seen thousands of dead (he apparently had never been in the service or in Vietnam), etc., et ridiculous cetera.

*The M1 was little used in VN; it was obsolescent for U.S. troops and the Vietnamese preferred the carbine, which was more suited to their stature.

Jim
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Old March 20, 2013, 10:22 AM   #9
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Mr. Eatman---- I think gas port pressure normally at 6000 + or - 2k for proper operation.
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Old March 20, 2013, 10:35 AM   #10
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http://www.garandgear.com/index.php?...arand&catid=39
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Old March 20, 2013, 02:41 PM   #11
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Gas port on 30 caliber Garands' is about 10,000 psi inside the barrel. On the 7.62 NATO versions, it's about 7,000 psi; the reason their ports needed opening up a bit. Peak pressure inside the gas cylinder's about 1,000 psi for both rounds.
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Old March 20, 2013, 07:17 PM   #12
Art Eatman
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I've always heard and read 2,000, but I'm not about to argue. The main thing is to avoid the slower-burn powders where the burning curve peaks later in the bore and the pressure is thus higher at the port.
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Old March 22, 2013, 04:57 AM   #13
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You can shoot any factory 06 ammo you want in the things if you dont mind having to pick up the opp rod and stick it back on the gun every other shot. Stick with 147-150 grain slugs and M-2 level loads. IMR 3031 is a good starter load powder to use in them.
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Old March 22, 2013, 11:30 AM   #14
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that's an interesting assement considering that black tip penetrators are 167 grain and are considered M1 safe...
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Old March 22, 2013, 06:16 PM   #15
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Very interesting...I was recently asking similar questions and was told the bullet weight was the determining factor--don't shoot bullets above 170gr through a Garand.
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Old March 22, 2013, 11:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Very interesting...I was recently asking similar questions and was told the bullet weight was the determining factor--don't shoot bullets above 170gr through a Garand.
also wrong. Hornady lists bullet weights all the way up to 178gr for the M1 specifically. the burn rate of the powder and pressure levels are what determines M1 safe loads or not.
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Old March 22, 2013, 11:09 PM   #17
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Thanks, tahuna. The varying quality of information is why I strive to stay with MILSPEC ammo for my Garand, which is essentially a plinker for me.
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Old March 22, 2013, 11:20 PM   #18
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there is a lot of misinformation out there about US military arms in general with the M1 bearing the brunt of most of it. many reloading manuals have a short essay for each cartridge and just about every 30-06 section I've read descibes the issues with reloading for the M1 to some detail, while most are brief and do little more than tell you to stick to mid range loads using specific powders, Hornady devoted an entire section to M1 safe loads separate from the standard 30-06 section.
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Old March 22, 2013, 11:23 PM   #19
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Absolutely. When I get busy and start reloading, I will definitely stick with the milder side of the reloading charts, for my MILSURP guns.
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Old March 24, 2013, 10:57 PM   #20
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180 gr. and heavier bullets have been a no-no in Garands as long as I can remember. There's been a lot written about that over the years.
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Old March 25, 2013, 12:25 AM   #21
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That's your best route...get an adjustable gas plug that allows the use of commercial ammo. They run about $40.
A set of dies will set you back 40 bucks or so, too ..... and allow you to make better ammo for less money .......
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Old March 25, 2013, 10:09 AM   #22
tahunua001
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180 gr. and heavier bullets have been a no-no in Garands as long as I can remember. There's been a lot written about that over the years.
there's also been a lot written over the years that the factor of bent op rods is the pressure at the gas port, slower burning powders or high velocity hunting loads are what causes these. if you use the proper powder and load your casings to allow for the heavier bullet weights without causing too much pressure then it doesn't matter if you're shooting a 150 grain bullet or a 220 grain bullet.
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