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Old March 14, 2013, 10:08 AM   #1
gdhp
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M&P 45 problems, smith customers

I recently purchased my first Smith and Wesson pistol. it is a full size m and P 45. before taking it to the range I was testing the trigger pull. It was anywhere from 14 + pounds. I sent it to smith. the guy on the phone told me that he didn't see how that was possible as they test the trigger poundage before they send them out. it took a lot of back and forth on the telephone with customer service but they did finally send my pistol back to me. I tested the trigger pull again at two gun shops and it was 10 pounds. the customer service manager told me that he told the technicians to get it as low as they can. The advertised trigger pull for this pistol I was told by the customer service representative was 6 and a half pounds. I also am having problems with the magazine, brand new, that has not even been fired because the spring will not work correctly. After unloading the magazine about halfway down, the rest of the bullets just fall out the magazine. Customer service told me they would send me new springs. I called after a week or so to see if the springs have been sent out, and no 1 could tell me if they had or had not. at that time he said he would send me springs. So fast forward to another week which was the day before yesterday, I called again to see if they have been sent out already. the guy told me that he did not see anything that was not sent out. He told me that they will send it out. Is this the smith and wesson that everyone knows, or did I just keep getting luckyo_O

Last edited by gdhp; March 14, 2013 at 10:13 AM. Reason: wrong word
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Old March 14, 2013, 10:30 AM   #2
SoilworK777
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Was the pistol cocked when you checked the pull?

What did you use to check the pull weight?
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Old March 14, 2013, 10:40 AM   #3
TunnelRat
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Quote:
before taking it to the range I was testing the trigger pull. It was anywhere from 14 + pounds.
I'm not aware of many trigger pull gauges that even go that high. There are some compliant models of the M&P that are right about 10 lb trigger pulls, but 14 seems way out of line. What did you use to measure the trigger pull?

I'm not sure about your magazine issue. What do you mean by:

Quote:
After unloading the magazine about halfway down, the rest of the bullets just fall out the magazine
So you're loading a full magazine, then unloading it, and the cartridges fall out? Are you holding the magazine upside down or is the baseplate coming off?

S&W usually has decent service, though I know they're slammed right now with orders. Not really an excuse but idk what else to say.
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Old March 14, 2013, 10:43 AM   #4
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How else is there to chek it? Not sure what the name brands were of the scales used, but one was a spring type, and the other was a digital. Both are scales made for checking trigger pull
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Old March 14, 2013, 10:48 AM   #5
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Quote:
Both are scales made for checking trigger pull
I believe you. But many of the spring scales max out way before 14 lbs, more like 8, and the digital Lyman one I own maxes out at 12. Was just curious what model it was.
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Old March 14, 2013, 11:02 AM   #6
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Are you the one measuring those numbers or are the shops giving them to you? I'm wondering if the scales are maxing out and they're just telling you numbers or if that's the actual measure.

How does it feel when you pull it? 14 lbs on one finger should almost be making your hand shake. One error I've seen is that people try to measure the trigger pull with the bar for the gauge high up on the trigger. But on the M&P you need to have the bar further down on the trigger or the trigger safety won't disengage. This will cause the scale to max out and give you a false reading. Seems silly but I've seen it happen to folks before.
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Old March 14, 2013, 11:07 AM   #7
gdhp
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Tunnel Rat. Lol..........the bullets can't just fall out with the mag in an upright position. And before I sent my pistol to smith, they had the same reserve. After testing it he agreed that it was "way heavy" as he put it, not telling me what they tested it at. I was glad that he found that out, because I was questioning the scales, process of checking lbs, and so forth. So should I just keep my fingers of the keyboard, or just accept the false claims of this 6 1/2 lbd pull. After all, it was a big consideration in my purchase. Oh, I did forget t mention that customer service manager told me at first that he did not see how it could be. But after verifying the "way heavy" pull, he said that the 45 is made with bigger parts (not sure of what he means, I'm not that educated on pistol internals) and that even though it is adv at 6.5 lbs, it can be heavier..................they sould say that up front in my opinion
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Old March 14, 2013, 11:17 AM   #8
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I agree, 14 lbs should make you hand shake:-D. But seriously, the only reason I checked was because it felt like it was about 20 or so!!!! I do have large hands, and I am plenty strong enough not to shake when I was pulling it. Not sure about the scale thing, they could have been guessing after it maxed out, but they were close in their guess, 1 was 13 and one was 14
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Old March 14, 2013, 11:21 AM   #9
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I am more curious though if this is normal for them, or if I should expect this from their products/ service?
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Old March 14, 2013, 12:13 PM   #10
TunnelRat
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Quote:
Lol..........the bullets can't just fall out with the mag in an upright position.
Hence why I asked if the baseplate was falling off.

Why are you unloading magazines upside down?

Quote:
I do have large hands, and I am plenty strong enough not to shake when I was pulling it.
Nice!

Quote:
Not sure about the scale thing, they could have been guessing after it maxed out, but they were close in their guess, 1 was 13 and one was 14
So you weren't the one measuring then, they were?

I bring up these questions because when someone quotes me a measurement that is out of the range of most measurement devices, yea, I get a bit skeptical of their claims.

Quote:
even though it is adv at 6.5 lbs, it can be heavier..................they sould say that up front in my opinion
It's generally accepted that trigger pull measurements for firearms are estimates that are averages of some test samples. There is likely to be some variation in the trigger pull. For a pistol I consider up to a 1lb or so of variation to be typical. But if what you say is true then it is well beyond that.

Quote:
I am more curious though if this is normal for them, or if I should expect this from their products/ service?
I would say its abnormal, but you sound pretty upset, rightly so. Maybe you should call and ask to speak to a supervisor?
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Last edited by TunnelRat; March 14, 2013 at 12:25 PM.
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Old March 14, 2013, 12:36 PM   #11
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ALL makes will come out of the factory defective. I had an NIB Sig 239 .40 that was defective from the get/go but that does not mean Sig is a bad choice. Smith will make it right.
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Old March 14, 2013, 03:13 PM   #12
gdhp
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Tunnel Rat.........Thanks for the info. I do not unload my mags upside down, but tilted to the side to spit them out on the table. After about 4th round spring sticks and all the rounds fall forward (new mag never shot). Also, I am not "upset", rather disappointed. If my pistol was a fluke and they get it back to fix, it should not be sent back to me at 10 lbs. I would like to get their trigger job, but after the "goings on" i have had to deal with talking with their customer service manager and witnessing their work 1st hand, well not sure if could expect what they claim or not. 1st impression is usually the best. Three calls now to get a spring that was defective and no knowledge by Smith that I had ordered the 1st 2 times, well, just not cool. As far as a rating based on test samples and then averaged, that's cool and all, but needs to be made plain and not stated as 6.5lbs.

Will Beararms...........Thanks for the info. Not saying Smith is a "Bad Choice", just stating my experience and interested if it was their way of doing things by asking if people have had any similar problems with them. If so, then at least I know what to expect from them. Also, people told me the same thing "Smith will fix it", but does not seem that S&W is going to be fixing my trigger anywhere close to 6.5lbs. I have heard good things about APEX trigger jobs, but I think it voids warranty
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Old March 14, 2013, 03:21 PM   #13
gdhp
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Tunnel Rat..............I have never seen an "ape" with a gun, I do not think Mr. Williams has either.........lol


Will Beararms................We all wait for death, no matter if you own a gun or not, it's just natural
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Old March 14, 2013, 03:23 PM   #14
Will Beararms
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I know it makes you mad. I was mad as a hornet when my NIB .40 Sig 239 and Kahr K9 crapped out on the first trip to the range with less than 20 factory rounds through them.

Or the time I was treated like dog manure by the former gunsmith at the Beretta Gallery in Dallas. For the longest, I had an axe to grind against Sig, Beretta and Kahr.

Sig made it right. Beretta Gallery hired a new man who is absolutely the nicest and one of the best gunsmiths I have ever been around and I am still waiting to take another chance on Kahr.

Sounds like they should send you a new pistol altogether.
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Old March 14, 2013, 03:24 PM   #15
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Will Beararms................We all wait for death, no matter if you own a gun or not, it's just natural

It is appointed unto man once to die; and then the judgment.
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Old March 14, 2013, 03:32 PM   #16
gdhp
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I agree, but it would be much better to die twice before you are judged, well that's how I believe
How do you guys put my quote in so everyone can see who the response is for?
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Old March 14, 2013, 03:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
After about 4th round spring sticks and all the rounds fall forward (new mag never shot).
I wonder if there isn't some burr inside the magazines that is catching the springs. I just don't know what replacing the springs will do. Obviously they are binding somehow. You might be able to solve the issue yourself by disassembling the mags and wiping out the insides, could be some grease or something that is sticking.
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Old March 14, 2013, 03:38 PM   #18
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Ye olde copy and paste.

Thanks for not getting in a dither. I am highly opinionated and can be abrasive or blunt. I would like to see the M&P do well. I think there some out there who thought it would go into mass production without any issues. It never works that way. Ask Glock, Sig and Beretta.
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Old March 14, 2013, 03:52 PM   #19
gdhp
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Quote:
I wonder if there isn't some burr inside the magazines that is catching the springs. I just don't know what replacing the springs will do. Obviously they are binding somehow. You might be able to solve the issue yourself by disassembling the mags and wiping out the insides, could be some grease or something that is sticking.
The spring was bent when i took it out. Smith told me to replace spring. I just inspected the mag and it is smooth on inside I will wipe it out though when i get the new spring ________________

Last edited by gdhp; March 14, 2013 at 04:04 PM.
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Old March 14, 2013, 03:53 PM   #20
gdhp
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Will Beararms.................still cant get the hang of it. I did copy and paste, but it looks like Tunnel Rat's comments are from me
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Old March 14, 2013, 04:00 PM   #21
gdhp
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Thanks for not getting in a dither. I am highly opinionated and can be abrasive or bl

testing
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Old March 14, 2013, 04:02 PM   #22
gdhp
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Quote:
Thanks for not getting in a dither. I am highly opinionated and can be abrasive or blunt. I would like to see the M&P do well. I think there some out there who thought it would go into mass production without any issues. It never works that way. Ask Glock, Sig and Beretta.
testing
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Old March 14, 2013, 04:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Ye olde copy and paste
.
Got it!!! Thanks
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Old March 14, 2013, 04:13 PM   #24
TunnelRat
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Quote:
The spring was bent when i took it out. Smith told me to replace spring.
Ahh, see details like that are handy when you post your story.
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Old March 14, 2013, 07:23 PM   #25
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It sounds like you got a Massachusetts pistol. MA pistols have a 10lb+ trigger instead of the 6-1/2lb triggers found in most M&Ps and if that's the case S&W won't lower the trigger pull because 10+ is the spec.

If in MA and all else fails you could get Burwell to do some work for you. He did 2 of mine way back in the early days of the m&P.
http://burwellguns.com/

The mag just sounds defective.
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Last edited by sholling; March 14, 2013 at 08:00 PM.
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