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Old April 12, 2013, 07:45 AM   #276
csmsss
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I think we all know where this will lead. "Publication"k and "internet" will be redefined administratively to basically cover every private sale.
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Old April 12, 2013, 08:52 AM   #277
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to extend background check requirements to transfers other than those made at gun shows or on the curtilage thereof,
They do seem to be in love with the word "curtilage". Do you suppose that was Toomey and Manchin making fun of Schumer that a drive way, and thus parking lot probably are not curtilage, or was that Schumer's word of the month on his Legal Dictionary Calendar?
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Old April 12, 2013, 09:05 AM   #278
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I think we all know where this will lead. "Publication" and "internet" will be redefined administratively to basically cover every private sale.
They don't have to- http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...om/publication
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Old April 12, 2013, 09:21 AM   #279
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Jim, not every private sale/transfer is advertised. I know a lot of guns are sold between friends, at gun ranges, etc. - where no advertisement is conducted.

Point being only that the real goal here isn't to obtain additional background checks. The goal is to create an illusory imperative for universal firearms registration.
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Old April 12, 2013, 09:28 AM   #280
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Well you and I are going to disagree on the goal on this one.

And I was pointing out there is a supposedly "legal" definition on the books for "publication" that's been established in slander/libel cases. Telling a third person you're looking to sell could be considered "publication"
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Old April 12, 2013, 09:57 AM   #281
Bartholomew Roberts
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Originally Posted by csmsss
Point being only that the real goal here isn't to obtain additional background checks
did you notice they make CHLs transfer through an FFL, even though they are background checked and exempt from NICS?
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Old April 12, 2013, 11:39 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by davetrig
the additions to FOPA are welcome, particularly to those of us in the northeast, who have to go through New Jersey when we visit America.
The problem is that the bill protects "sportsmen", not "gun owners" who travel. To me, this means only shotguns and bolt-action rifles can be transported without risk of arrest.
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Old April 12, 2013, 11:49 AM   #283
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IDPA is for sportsmen. Various other pistol target competitions are considered sporting events, even by the State of New York, they have a state exemption for some verbiage similar to qualified NRA sponsored target competition junk.
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Old April 12, 2013, 12:25 PM   #284
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I am missing something with this bill. If transfers that don't take place at a gun show and do not take place as a result of an internet ad are not required to have a background check, then why go to the trouble of excluding all those different family transfers listed in the bill? Meaning if a personal face to face transfer does not require a background check, what is the point of listing all those family relationships? Something is fishy.
^THIS... and more.

For states that already ban FTF sales, does this bill override their current laws and legalize FTF sales as long as they're not conducted at GunShows or over the Webz? This I doubt?

These states already ban FTF sales... what happens in those states?
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Illinois
New York
Oregon
Rhode Island
Hanguns ONLY:
Hawaii
Maryland
New Jersey
Pennsylvania

And just to be perfectly clear... FTF sales are still completely legal in states that allow it as long as there's no Gunshow or Internet/Publication involved?
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Old April 12, 2013, 12:29 PM   #285
csmsss
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did you notice they make CHLs transfer through an FFL, even though they are background checked and exempt from NICS?
Missed that. But it's something you'd want to do if you were building a list, isn't it?
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Old April 12, 2013, 12:31 PM   #286
csmsss
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And just to be perfectly clear... FTF sales are still completely legal in states that allow it as long as there's no Gunshow or Internet/Publication involved?
Yes, but when you consider the definition of "publication" can be interpreted to basically mean any communication between two parties, this is a distinction without a difference in my opinion.
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Old April 12, 2013, 12:32 PM   #287
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Stricter state laws remain in place.
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Old April 12, 2013, 12:53 PM   #288
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"These states already ban FTF sales... what happens in those states?
<snip>
New Jersey

As screwy as New Jersey is, FTF sales aren't banned. For a FTF handgun private purchase (in addition to having a FOID card) the buyer needs to get his (4 part) permit through the normal process and it gets filled out and the seller keeps a copy, the buyer keeps a copy and the state and local PD each get a copy.

For long guns, you can only sell to a FOID card holder and you each fill out a 2-part form and each keep a copy.
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Old April 14, 2013, 12:02 AM   #289
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If this passes, I wonder how long it will be before I see ads for .223 lawn mowers and .44 refrigerators in the local paper?
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Old April 14, 2013, 12:16 AM   #290
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If this passes, I wonder how long it will be before I see ads for .223 lawn mowers and .44 refrigerators in the local paper?
Never. What ends unregistered private sale isn't they'll catch you at point of sale; but the slight chance they'll trace down the gun and nail you to a cross. "Records show this gun was sold to you - now we caught BillyBob committing a crime with it - how did you dispose of it exactly?" <-- like with Straw Purchase, probably undetectable but do you want even a slight chance of it crashing down on your head (i.e. exposure to extreme legal trouble) just to make an extra $25 on the sale of your crummy $250 pistol?

Think of it, committing a possible felony considered by newsmedia to be worse than murder, and trusting the secret to a guy who wants to buy a used $250 pistol.

Last edited by Battler; April 14, 2013 at 12:37 AM.
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Old April 15, 2013, 12:43 PM   #291
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Votes on amendments, including Toomey-Manchin are scheduled for tomorrow morning. Just discussion until then.
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Old April 15, 2013, 05:48 PM   #292
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The anti-gunners may not have enough votes for cloture.

http://news.yahoo.com/gun-background...-politics.html
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Old April 15, 2013, 07:10 PM   #293
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We'll see, according to the NYT, 4 Dems (Begich, Heitkamp and two unnamed) oppose Toomey-Manchin and 4 Reps support it (Toomey, McCain, Collins, McCain).
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Old April 15, 2013, 08:25 PM   #294
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I can imagine a lot of flip-flopping on both sides in reaction to the news of the Gottlieb Connection.
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Old April 15, 2013, 08:32 PM   #295
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As a recently minted life member of SAF, I am beyond perturbed at Gottlieb's involvement in drafting the amendment.

I understand the video of his speech in support of it is starting to be removed from sites. Mods may want to archive this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=E9UMox1WoTw
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Old April 15, 2013, 11:31 PM   #296
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The AP is reporting that the vote is very close and that Democrats are pushing the vote out to allow more time for lobbying. Also, for those in Georgia Senator Chambliss has stated, “I'm not going to vote for it. It's not the right thing to do".

http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/social-issu...backing/nXMHg/
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Old April 16, 2013, 01:39 AM   #297
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Sad to see Gottlieb go to the dark side.
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Old April 16, 2013, 07:35 AM   #298
Bartholomew Roberts
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AP reporting that there aren't 60 votes for Schumer-Manchin-Toomey and the vote may get pushed back to give the Senate time to make deals.
http://m.ajc.com/ap/ap/social-issues...backing/nXMHg/

Still nothing relevant yet... Still gavelling in. Debate scheduled for 11am Eastern.

Last edited by Bartholomew Roberts; April 16, 2013 at 09:01 AM.
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Old April 16, 2013, 09:07 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by Dr Big Bird PhD
Sad to see Gottlieb go to the dark side.
It is, he almost had me trusting men that wear bow ties again.
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Old April 16, 2013, 09:12 AM   #300
Bartholomew Roberts
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S.729 and S.730 (both gun bills) offered to be read into the calendar. Senator objects. Bills placed on the calendar (this means they will be delayed 30 hours until they can be considered by the Senate).

Reid says Schumer-Toomey-Manchin supported by 650,000 SAF/CCRKBA members and he hopes it gets a vote.

Last edited by Bartholomew Roberts; April 16, 2013 at 09:21 AM.
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