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Old April 11, 2013, 10:33 AM   #226
overhead
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There only hope is to get a quick vote before people have a chance to read the bill. I don't see it happening. But, I did not think Reid would risk his red state senators for this vote either, so what do I know? And I certainly did not think all those Republicans would commit career suicide voting to move forward.

These are the names of the people that I hope lose their jobs during the next two election cycles: Hoeven Ayotte Chambliss Collins Flake Isakson McCain Burr Coburn. If you happen to live in a state that elected these nitwits I suggest you give their office a call today to express your displeasure.

Last edited by overhead; April 11, 2013 at 10:40 AM.
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Old April 11, 2013, 10:49 AM   #227
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Quote:
educating the public about firearms at a young age, so they don't grow up scared of them, and maybe will respect them more.
Oh they are educating them already.

A six-year-old girl expelled for bringing a clear plastic gun to class will be allowed to return to school.
http://www.wltx.com/news/article/219...-Gun-to-School

Sen. J.B. Jennings filed his bill after the recent two-day suspension of 7-year-old Joshua Welch at Park Elementary School in Anne Arundel County for nibbling a pastry into what a teacher believed was a shape of a gun.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...s-gun-jennings

Looking at pictures of assault weapons was his first mistake. But his fatal error was saving the image as the desktop “wallpaper” on his school-issued computer.
http://libertyunyielding.com/2013/02...on-his-laptop/


Even if these expulsions and charges are being dropped when challenge, when it happens to 6 year olds, the damage is done. Any and every reference to guns is being obliterated and offenders are being castigated and you can bet it's not done behind closed doors, nooo, they will be using these incidents as examples to the other kids of what happens to evil gun people.
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Old April 11, 2013, 10:57 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by overhead
But, I did not think Reid would risk his red state senators for this vote either, so what do I know? And I certainly did not think all those Republicans would commit career suicide voting to move forward.
I seriously doubt that the votes to proceed to debate were about the merits of the bill, but are more probably a reflection of which Senators believe they can use votes on the bill and amendments against their opponents in future elections.
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Old April 11, 2013, 11:20 AM   #229
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It would be hard for them to vote on the merits of the bill when the bill had not been released to them yet
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Old April 11, 2013, 11:46 AM   #230
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The roll call on the motion for cloture: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...n=1&vote=00095

Alphabetical by Senator Name
Alexander (R-TN), Yea
Ayotte (R-NH), Yea
Baldwin (D-WI), Yea
Barrasso (R-WY), Nay
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Begich (D-AK), Nay
Bennet (D-CO), Yea
Blumenthal (D-CT), Yea
Blunt (R-MO), Nay
Boozman (R-AR), Nay
Boxer (D-CA), Yea
Brown (D-OH), Yea
Burr (R-NC), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Yea
Cardin (D-MD), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Casey (D-PA), Yea
Chambliss (R-GA), Yea
Coats (R-IN), Nay
Coburn (R-OK), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Nay
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Coons (D-DE), Yea
Corker (R-TN), Yea
Cornyn (R-TX), Nay
Cowan (D-MA), Yea
Crapo (R-ID), Nay
Cruz (R-TX), Nay
Donnelly (D-IN), Yea
Durbin (D-IL), Yea
Enzi (R-WY), Nay
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Fischer (R-NE), Nay
Flake (R-AZ), Yea
Franken (D-MN), Yea
Gillibrand (D-NY), Yea
Graham (R-SC), Yea
Grassley (R-IA), Nay
Hagan (D-NC), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Hatch (R-UT), Nay
Heinrich (D-NM), Yea
Heitkamp (D-ND), Yea
Heller (R-NV), Yea
Hirono (D-HI), Yea
Hoeven (R-ND), Yea
Inhofe (R-OK), Nay
Isakson (R-GA), Yea
Johanns (R-NE), Nay
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Johnson (R-WI), Nay
Kaine (D-VA), Yea
King (I-ME), Yea
Kirk (R-IL), Yea
Klobuchar (D-MN), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Not Voting
Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Lee (R-UT), Nay
Levin (D-MI), Yea
Manchin (D-WV), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
McCaskill (D-MO), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Nay
Menendez (D-NJ), Yea
Merkley (D-OR), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Moran (R-KS), Nay
Murkowski (R-AK), Nay
Murphy (D-CT), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Paul (R-KY), Nay
Portman (R-OH), Nay
Pryor (D-AR), Nay
Reed (D-RI), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Risch (R-ID), Nay
Roberts (R-KS), Nay
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Rubio (R-FL), Nay
Sanders (I-VT), Yea
Schatz (D-HI), Yea
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Scott (R-SC), Nay
Sessions (R-AL), Nay
Shaheen (D-NH), Yea
Shelby (R-AL), Nay
Stabenow (D-MI), Yea
Tester (D-MT), Yea
Thune (R-SD), Nay
Toomey (R-PA), Yea
Udall (D-CO), Yea
Udall (D-NM), Yea
Vitter (R-LA), Nay
Warner (D-VA), Yea
Warren (D-MA), Yea
Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea
Wicker (R-MS), Yea
Wyden (D-OR), Yea
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Last edited by Spats McGee; April 11, 2013 at 11:52 AM. Reason: Reorganizing
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Old April 11, 2013, 11:52 AM   #231
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Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---68
Alexander (R-TN)
Ayotte (R-NH)
Baldwin (D-WI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bennet (D-CO)
Blumenthal (D-CT)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Burr (R-NC)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Collins (R-ME)
Coons (D-DE)
Corker (R-TN)
Cowan (D-MA)
Donnelly (D-IN)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Flake (R-AZ)
Franken (D-MN)
Gillibrand (D-NY)
Graham (R-SC)
Hagan (D-NC)
Harkin (D-IA)
Heinrich (D-NM)
Heitkamp (D-ND)
Heller (R-NV)
Hirono (D-HI)
Hoeven (R-ND)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kaine (D-VA)
King (I-ME)
Kirk (R-IL)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Manchin (D-WV)
McCain (R-AZ)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Merkley (D-OR)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murphy (D-CT)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schatz (D-HI)
Schumer (D-NY)
Shaheen (D-NH)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Toomey (R-PA)
Udall (D-CO)
Udall (D-NM)
Warner (D-VA)
Warren (D-MA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wicker (R-MS)
Wyden (D-OR)

NAYs ---31
Barrasso (R-WY)
Begich (D-AK)
Blunt (R-MO)
Boozman (R-AR)
Coats (R-IN)
Cochran (R-MS)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Crapo (R-ID)
Cruz (R-TX)
Enzi (R-WY)
Fischer (R-NE)
Grassley (R-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Johanns (R-NE)
Johnson (R-WI)
Lee (R-UT)
McConnell (R-KY)
Moran (R-KS)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Paul (R-KY)
Portman (R-OH)
Pryor (D-AR)
Risch (R-ID)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rubio (R-FL)
Scott (R-SC)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)

Not Voting - 1
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
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Old April 11, 2013, 11:53 AM   #232
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Grouped by Home State
Alabama: Sessions (R-AL), Nay Shelby (R-AL), Nay

Alaska: Begich (D-AK), Nay Murkowski (R-AK), Nay

Arizona: Flake (R-AZ), Yea McCain (R-AZ), Yea

Arkansas: Boozman (R-AR), Nay Pryor (D-AR), Nay

California: Boxer (D-CA), Yea Feinstein (D-CA), Yea

Colorado: Bennet (D-CO), Yea Udall (D-CO), Yea

Connecticut: Blumenthal (D-CT), Yea Murphy (D-CT), Yea

Delaware: Carper (D-DE), Yea Coons (D-DE), Yea

Florida: Nelson (D-FL), Yea Rubio (R-FL), Nay

Georgia: Chambliss (R-GA), Yea Isakson (R-GA), Yea

Hawaii: Hirono (D-HI), Yea Schatz (D-HI), Yea

Idaho: Crapo (R-ID), Nay Risch (R-ID), Nay

Illinois: Durbin (D-IL), Yea Kirk (R-IL), Yea

Indiana: Coats (R-IN), Nay Donnelly (D-IN), Yea

Iowa: Grassley (R-IA), Nay Harkin (D-IA), Yea

Kansas: Moran (R-KS), Nay Roberts (R-KS), Nay

Kentucky: McConnell (R-KY), Nay Paul (R-KY), Nay

Louisiana: Landrieu (D-LA), Yea Vitter (R-LA), Nay

Maine: Collins (R-ME), Yea King (I-ME), Yea

Maryland: Cardin (D-MD), Yea Mikulski (D-MD), Yea

Massachusetts: Cowan (D-MA), Yea Warren (D-MA), Yea

Michigan: Levin (D-MI), Yea Stabenow (D-MI), Yea

Minnesota: Franken (D-MN), Yea Klobuchar (D-MN), Yea

Mississippi: Cochran (R-MS), Nay Wicker (R-MS), Yea

Missouri: Blunt (R-MO), Nay McCaskill (D-MO), Yea

Montana: Baucus (D-MT), Yea Tester (D-MT), Yea

Nebraska: Fischer (R-NE), Nay Johanns (R-NE), Nay

Nevada: Heller (R-NV), Yea Reid (D-NV), Yea

New Hampshire: Ayotte (R-NH), Yea Shaheen (D-NH), Yea

New Jersey: Lautenberg (D-NJ), Not Voting Menendez (D-NJ), Yea

New Mexico: Heinrich (D-NM), Yea Udall (D-NM), Yea

New York: Gillibrand (D-NY), Yea Schumer (D-NY), Yea

North Carolina: Burr (R-NC), Yea Hagan (D-NC), Yea

North Dakota: Heitkamp (D-ND), Yea Hoeven (R-ND), Yea

Ohio: Brown (D-OH), Yea Portman (R-OH), Nay

Oklahoma: Coburn (R-OK), Yea Inhofe (R-OK), Nay

Oregon: Merkley (D-OR), Yea Wyden (D-OR), Yea

Pennsylvania: Casey (D-PA), Yea Toomey (R-PA), Yea

Rhode Island: Reed (D-RI), Yea Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea

South Carolina: Graham (R-SC), Yea Scott (R-SC), Nay

South Dakota: Johnson (D-SD), Yea Thune (R-SD), Nay

Tennessee: Alexander (R-TN), Yea Corker (R-TN), Yea

Texas: Cornyn (R-TX), Nay Cruz (R-TX), Nay

Utah: Hatch (R-UT), Nay Lee (R-UT), Nay

Vermont: Leahy (D-VT), Yea Sanders (I-VT), Yea

Virginia: Kaine (D-VA), Yea Warner (D-VA), Yea

Washington: Cantwell (D-WA), Yea Murray (D-WA), Yea

West Virginia: Manchin (D-WV), Yea Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea

Wisconsin: Baldwin (D-WI), Yea Johnson (R-WI), Nay

Wyoming: Barrasso (R-WY), Nay Enzi (R-WY), Nay
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Old April 11, 2013, 12:00 PM   #233
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One of the things that just occurred to me, as I was looking at the Sponsors of Feinstein's Assault Weapons Ban bill, neither of my State's Senators are co-sponsors. I think at least one of them would love to be, but won't. We voted out a sitting Speaker of the House after the last one. For all the people saying it's a different time, it appears some of the people who wish it was don't think it is.
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Old April 11, 2013, 12:06 PM   #234
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So, from a purely strategic standpoint is forcing a vote on the issue possible a good thing? By voting everyone has to go on record and if new restrictions ultimately fail in the Senate or the House we still have folks on record. No one can deny how they voted and this could help in the upcoming elections in more pro-gun States. Now, obviously the fear is that something ends up passing, so I guess it is a gamble.
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Old April 11, 2013, 12:06 PM   #235
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WW2:
Quote:
This is irritating since I want to transfer a handgun to my Son-in-Law. In order for this to happen he must pass his handgun safety test, then we take the gun to the FFL and fill out the paperwork for the background check, pay the fees, and then he waits 10 days before he can pick up the gun. If I transfer it to my daughter, I just hand her the gun and it is done.
Can you just hand your gun to your daughter, and then she can gift it to her husband without going through all of the nonsense? Or is there something in the law which specifically prohibits a double transfer between close relatives? These laws are so imbecilic.
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Old April 11, 2013, 12:09 PM   #236
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Thanks for posting the vote lists. It's quite telling when you look at the state by state votes where certain states voted en bloc, as it were, such as GA, TN, AZ, etc. unexpectedly. Obviously backroom deals have been struck.
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Old April 11, 2013, 12:20 PM   #237
JimDandy
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Can you just hand your gun to your daughter, and then she can gift it to her husband without going through all of the nonsense? Or is there something in the law which specifically prohibits a double transfer between close relatives? These laws are so imbecilic.
We're talking purely hypothetical here but- He could give it to the daughter, who would be wiser to take it home, and sit on it for a while, THEN give it to her husband. While the daughter could say she accepted the gift to not alienate her father, but didn't want it so she immediately re gifted it, it still looks suspicious. Of course all this presupposes an investigation which would be unlikely. And ignores the idea that the whole thing is gray and quasi-legal or quasi-illegal and makes you wonder if they're making something that isn't criminal an illegal act.
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Old April 11, 2013, 12:31 PM   #238
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All of this is entirely academic, of course, as the House is exceedingly unlikely to approve anything resembling this current bill. But we'll need to work on our congressmen to make sure the House doesn't pass ANYTHING. If it does, this thing will wind up in committee, where a very small subset of representatives and senators will basically rewrite this thing to their taste.
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Old April 11, 2013, 01:09 PM   #239
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Well, the only thing not depressing about this morning's BS is that I don't have to look at the list to know how my home state senators voted ... It seems more and more likely to me that deals have been brokered behind closed doors to steal our freedom and I am feeling less and less confident in a) this particular bill being defeated and b) the rest of Obama's dream gun control program being defeated ... just a while ago we were dreaming that Cruz and his cohorts would be able to filibuster this latest gibberish into oblivion; that of course was before enough Republicans sold out party standards ... It's nice to think that the bill won't get out of the Senate in some form, and it's nice to think that even if it does, the House will defeat it ... I'm not so sanguine any more on either result ...

Sad to say, I really don't recognize the country I grew up in ... I used to say I was glad I was getting older so I wouldn't have to see the end result of all this, but Obama is forcing his dreams down our throats faster than I'm getting old ...
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Old April 11, 2013, 02:00 PM   #240
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Something almost relevant to these events.

That Sheriff Crum who was killed by Maynard in VA.

He had recently bought a handgun, they say it shouldn't have happened because he should have been flagged for mental health reasons but something got fouled up and the check came back good.

Quote:
A separate, subsequent attempt by Maynard to buy a firearm failed when the background check system flagged him, Sparks said.
So he goes back again, tries to buy another, background check comes back flagged. So at this point why is LE not checking this guy out? Why is he walking the streets and killing a cop?
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Old April 11, 2013, 02:07 PM   #241
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Debate resumed but no substance yet. Murphy did another blood dance and now someone is discussing tax reform.

Blumenthal up. More of same.

Last edited by Bartholomew Roberts; April 11, 2013 at 02:20 PM.
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Old April 11, 2013, 02:15 PM   #242
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Thank you for keeping us posted on this, BR. I watched Sen. Murphy for a bit just now, and I couldn't take it. "Blood dance" is spot on.
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Old April 11, 2013, 02:27 PM   #243
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Help me understand this: The senate voted to move forward with the debate of a bill that hasn't been published to them yet? And the authors of the bill say that its purpose is to remove exemptions to background checks for gun shows and internet sales - exemptions that never existed?

Am I more stupid than I was a couple of days ago, or is someone trying to slide something past me? When I started seeing the coverage of this "compromise legislation" yesterday, I could make no sense of it, and the cloud of confusion is getting darker rather than lifting.
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Old April 11, 2013, 02:28 PM   #244
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You have to pass it before you can read it. We have seen this tap dance before.
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Old April 11, 2013, 02:41 PM   #245
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Quote:
Help me understand this: The senate voted to move forward with the debate of a bill that hasn't been published to them yet?
I think the Background Check Bill being debated will be the Schumer Bill and the Manchin/Toomey Bill will end up being an Amendment. Am I correct?
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Old April 11, 2013, 02:48 PM   #246
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No way to tell. Nothing's been published.
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Old April 11, 2013, 02:49 PM   #247
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A small suggestion

Above, I posted the names of who voted how. Now is the time to either: (1) send a quick email to your senators for doing the right thing; or (2) send an email to your senators, telling them to shape up.
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Old April 11, 2013, 02:55 PM   #248
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Also, remember what was voted upon - not the measure itself, but the decision to bring the measure to the floor for limited debate and motions for amendments prefatory to a vote.
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Old April 11, 2013, 02:57 PM   #249
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Quote:
I think the Background Check Bill being debated will be the Schumer Bill and the Manchin/Toomey Bill will end up being an Amendment. Am I correct?
They're discussing S.649 - a Bill from Harry Reid that swallowed up three smaller bills into one bigger package... school security, straw sales, and the Schumer bill we all know and hate. Current assumptions/expectations are the Toomey/Manchin bill/plan/whatever it is, will be offered as an amendment to the Schumer portion of the bill as regards background checks.
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Old April 11, 2013, 03:21 PM   #250
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NRA scored the procedural vote for its 2013 ratings. So every Senator who voted "Yes" this morning just took a hit to their NRA grade. A little disturbing to see that many Republicans willing to buck the NRA already.

Also Reid is going to demand that any future filibusters on this bill meet the rules exactly and he is going to sweat them out.
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